(Topic ID: 278459)

Guns N' Roses...It's here!


By pin2d

3 months ago



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#4601 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Fantastic. So with Wonka we had no preorder and a completely different financial structure and people still complain. POTC was 8 months from reveal to start of shipping so this time with GnR we had nice amount built before even revealing the game so that they could ship at launch. And what am I reading over and over? We aren’t shipping them out fast enough. This is Webster’s definition of a no-win situation.

I agree its a bit on a no win situation, but I can probably guess many who ordered around launch time didn't think it would be 6 months....its a slippery slope for a manufacturer who wants to be secretive with games and launch dates. Cleary u don't want to front the cash for games u have no idea will sell yet. Being so secretive, and controlling cash outlays is virtually impossible.....so yes JJP is in a no win situation.

#4602 3 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

And that does what?

Dude he’s kidding it’s sarcastic humour!

#4603 3 months ago

If you have a non refundable deposit with JJP you deserve to have an estimated arrival date for your machine. Until JJP does that they can’t play victim.

#4604 3 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

If you have a non refundable deposit with JJP you deserve to have an estimated arrival date for your machine. Until JJP does that they can’t play victim.

Can someone who put a 1k deposit down on a gnr standard edition directly through jjp please tell me if they got an email confirmation of their deposit?

#4605 3 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

If you have a non refundable deposit with JJP you deserve to have an estimated arrival date for your machine. Until JJP does that they can’t play victim.

I haven't got one yet....did u?

#4606 3 months ago

I have to imagine launch day at JJP going something like this:

#4607 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Dude he’s kidding it’s sarcastic humour!

I know. I guess the humor escaped with my botching about the PFs

#4608 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I haven't got one yet....did u?

I ordered through a distributor and will have my SE on Friday. I just find it crazy that a bunch of people are stuck with deposits and not a peep about when they will get their games. My point is that JJP doesn’t get any sympathy from me if they refuse to communicate with their customers.

#4609 3 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

I ordered through a distributor and will have my SE on Friday. I just find it crazy that a bunch of people are stuck with deposits and not a peep about when they will get their games. My point is that JJP doesn’t get any sympathy from me if they refuse to communicate with their customers.

I hear ya....my guess is its a supply chain issue with Mirco being on the top of the list of issues.

#4610 3 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I know. I guess the humor escaped with my botching about the PFs

Hey man, I responded to one of your posts many days ago. I said it then and I'll say it again. Fun house is an amazing classic game, thats a given. However, you got one sweet deal on the GnR trade you made. Now, ill add to that by saying most people who have recieved their LE machines (myself included), recieved a game with a beautiful playfield. Only a few adjustments needed out of the box, and we're up and running. The pictures and complaints here of minor pooling are the vast minority of playfields. Mine looks perfect, no pooling. As of about 160 games, there are some slight dimples, but thats to be expected. I understand your fear and frustration, I really do. I guess I'm saying, I think the chances are, you'll be pleasantly surprised when you finally receive your LE. You may even wonder why you got so worked up. Don't stress out until it becomes necessary, you know.

#4611 3 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

I ordered through a distributor and will have my SE on Friday. I just find it crazy that a bunch of people are stuck with deposits and not a peep about when they will get their games. My point is that JJP doesn’t get any sympathy from me if they refuse to communicate with their customers.

There should be better communication.I remodel Kitchen & Bathrooms And I learned a long time ago even if it’s bad news people appreciate your calling

#4612 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I have to imagine launch day at JJP going something like this:

No doubt....because they are so secretive about titles its puts them in an impossible situation....the good news is theres solutions to this dilemma

#4613 3 months ago

The day before the game went on sale, they posted a pic to twitter with nothing but in box games and someone looking proud. This strongly implies these games were ready to ship.

I was expecting weeks, but if you are going to post crap like bunches of games ready to ship, you better have the majority of the games ready to ship or close.

https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1312803772435890176

Quoted from fnosm:

When we paid the deposit we knew it was non-refundable, if we bothered to ask. We also knew we had no way of knowing when our game would be available,

#4614 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

The day before the game went on sale, they posted a pic to twitter with nothing but in box games and someone looking proud. This strongly implies these games were ready to ship.
I was expecting weeks, but if you are going to post crap like bunches of games ready to ship, you better have the majority of the games ready to ship or close.
https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1312803772435890176

They never ever lead us to believe they had any more games ready to ship than were in that picture. It become known pretty much right away they had around 100 LEs ready to ship.

If they had many more than that in stock, where would they put them?

#4615 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I was expecting weeks

You don't get to act without information then claim abuse. Next time ask before you pony up the cash. If your not happy with the answer, don't buy.

Everyone is in the same boat. You need to own your decision, just like the majority of NITL buyers that aren't complaining on Pinside.

And you have to know that your buyer's remorse will disappear the moment the truck pulls up to your place to deliver your own copy of the most amazing pinball machine ever produced.

#4616 3 months ago

I don't know how many people picked up on that. I wasn't one of them. Maybe they could keep them somewhere in their new and much larger production facility? I'm not sure, neither is anyone.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

They never ever lead us to believe they had any more games ready to ship than were in that picture. It become known pretty much right away they had around 100 LEs ready to ship.
If they had many more than that in stock, where should they put them?

#4617 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

The day before the game went on sale, they posted a pic to twitter with nothing but in box games and someone looking proud. This strongly implies these games were ready to ship.
I was expecting weeks, but if you are going to post crap like bunches of games ready to ship, you better have the majority of the games ready to ship or close.
https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1312803772435890176

I respectfully disagree. There were as Derek said 112 games ready to go prior to 10/5. The ones not boxed were poised on the line (SEs next up as per the plan) and the factory continued making games that Monday. To suggest that the MAJORITY of games needed to be ready to ship at launch suggests that you aren't actually going to be doing a production run, in fact you would have had to have already done pretty much the entire run prior to the launch. That leads to the obvious question of how many games you would have made in anticipation? How do you know prior to launch how many you are going to sell when there was no preorder? Never mind the "where would you store them" problem, which is legitimate, the entire idea of the majority of a run of some unknown quantity made beforehand goes against basic production logic.

#4618 3 months ago
Quoted from Tdavis7965:

I’ve been following this post for a while and finally pulled the trigger on an SE yesterday. Plays incredibly fast! Looks like the black washers are only at the bottom posts, all others look ok without washers and no pooling or chipping. Can take more pics if needed[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Congrats neighbor!

#4619 3 months ago

I wish JJP would release a statement saying all GnR deposits are now refundable to those that want to cancel their order in the next 5 days. Those opting to stay will see their position advanced in line for each opening and new buyers are welcome with the non-refundable policy.
Those opting out now would be welcome to return at the back of the line.

How many of you day traders are going to hit the market with your thousand dollars now?

#4620 3 months ago
Quoted from Scribbles:

Hey man, I responded to one of your posts many days ago. I said it then and I'll say it again. Fun house is an amazing classic game, thats a given. However, you got one sweet deal on the GnR trade you made. Now, ill add to that by saying most people who have recieved their LE machines (myself included), recieved a game with a beautiful playfield. Only a few adjustments needed out of the box, and we're up and running. The pictures and complaints here of minor pooling are the vast minority of playfields. Mine looks perfect, no pooling. As of about 160 games, there are some slight dimples, but thats to be expected. I understand your fear and frustration, I really do. I guess I'm saying, I think the chances are, you'll be pleasantly surprised when you finally receive your LE. You may even wonder why you got so worked up. Don't stress out until it becomes necessary, you know.

I told the distributor I bought it through that I wanted to wait. Till later next year to receive my game. I don’t mind waiting. We will see what troubles come and if pooling and mild chipping around posts turn to something worse. We will see what happens. I hope I’m whimsical mg and botching over nothing. We will see.
Till then Ima be quiet.

#4621 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I don't know how many people picked up on that. I wasn't one of them.

Then I suggest buying games when they are in stock next time. Make sure one is ready to ship before you pay. Sucks. But is what it is.

Illinois has restrictions on manufacturing. Stern is way behind too.

#4622 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I wish JJP would release a statement saying all GnR deposits are now refundable to those that want to cancel their order in the next 5 days. Those opting to stay will see their position advanced in line for each opening and new buyers are welcome with the non-refundable policy.
Those opting out now would be welcome to return at the back of the line.
How many of you day traders are going to hit the market with your thousand dollars now?

Have you preordered one? I did and I was told "I have no idea when they will ship" .... I was good with that....the only way for a company to figure out "real" demand and manage their supply chain is to have non refundable deposits....makes sense to me....now if its 6 months and they still haven't delivered we have a different problem, but I'll worry about that at a later time.

#4623 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I have no idea when they will ship

I don't understand how you go from 'no idea' to it'll be there within six months.

#4624 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Have you preordered one? I did and I was told "I have no idea when they will ship" .... I was good with that....the only way for a company to figure out "real" demand and manage their supply chain is to have non refundable deposits....makes sense to me....now if its 6 months and they still haven't delivered we have a different problem, but I'll worry about that at a later time.

I think maybe you missed my point or I'm missing yours. Yes, I've pre-ordered with a $2000 deposit and I'm content to wait. I'm not even pestering my distributor.

I'm just saying that if people were given the option of a returned deposit right now, they wouldn't take it.

#4625 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

The day before the game went on sale, they posted a pic to twitter with nothing but in box games and someone looking proud. This strongly implies these games were ready to ship.
I was expecting weeks, but if you are going to post crap like bunches of games ready to ship, you better have the majority of the games ready to ship or close.
https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1312803772435890176

I'm still waiting for my Magic Girl

#4626 3 months ago

Do you think they had any idea demand would be this high. Maybe they weren’t prepared for the number of orders now everyone has to wait. I would rather wait than get a rushed out game.

#4627 3 months ago

While I'm sure u will all get ur games I will never give a deposit to anyone for a pinball machines ever again. Not Stern, JJP, Spooky, no one. I go to the distributor and play the game, if I like I'll pay in full for it and done.

29
#4628 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I don't know how many people picked up on that. I wasn't one of them. Maybe they could keep them somewhere in their new and much larger production facility? I'm not sure, neither is anyone.
This is bizarre though, why not say anything? Why require non refundable deposits? If the game is that good, it'll sell itself so deposits shouldn't be a big deal. Do we know much about this "new" Jersey Jack? This isn't mean to be negative speculation, but are these guys financially stable and in it for the long haul? How do we know? I'm hoping for some really good answers that lead us to believe all is well. They don't "need" our deposit money, do they?
Again, I'm not implying anything, I'm hoping someone can chime in and let us all know all is well.

Again, I'm not attacking you personally but just think on this for a moment. This investment group, which conservatively can be said to have more money than at least some third world countries, uplifts the entire operation that has been in NJ since 2013 (really since 2011), closes the factory that had produced all of the first 5 tables along with their many variations in February of 2020, invests I legitimately know not how many millions of dollars in outfitting a new building, consolidating the Illinois staff, has signs made all over, hires contractors who, during a pandemic the likes of which no one has seen before, run miles of cat5 cable, build out the production lines, bring in all new office furniture, dozens of computers, all new lighting, the new shopbot and many new pieces of equipment including table saws and the like for the new design and construction area, fronts the capital for the many parts needed to make a couple of thousand GnR at minimum, interviews and hires new production people, lands Duncan Brown and Bill Grupp amidst a SEA of other prior employees, technicians, engineers and the list goes on and on. Paints everything paves the parking lot, contracts with various new vendors for a cardboard crusher, dumpsters, etc., along with the insurance and all of the headaches of uprooting your established factory and culling together a new one amidst a work from home order, finances countless things including but not limited to the fancy GnR trailers for launch day, all the R&D for title #7 which is underway in the background, hires and trains all (mostly) new staff and on and on and on. There are countless things I haven't thought of which is one of the many reasons why I could never have taken on a job this massive and intense. Following all of that effort and time and commitment, you ask if these guys are stable and in it for the long haul?
Bit of a reach there, don't you think?

#4629 3 months ago

]

Quoted from Mr68:

I think maybe you missed my point or I'm missing yours. Yes, I've pre-ordered with a $2000 deposit and I'm content to wait. I'm not even pestering my distributor.
I'm just saying that if people were given the option of a returned deposit right now, they wouldn't take it.

gotcha...I missed your point .... depends on the game...CE no way...LE maybe....

#4630 3 months ago
Quoted from fnosm:

I don't understand how you go from 'no idea' to it'll be there within six months.

it was an arbitrary number I have in my head....if after 6 months I haven't received my game than I'll start to worry...

#4631 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Again, I'm not attacking you personally but just think on this for a moment. This investment group, which conservatively can be said to have more money than at least some third world countries, uplifts the entire operation that has been in NJ since 2013 (really since 2011), closes the factory that had produced all of the first 5 tables along with their many variations in February of 2020, invests I legitimately know not how many millions of dollars in outfitting a new building, consolidating the Illinois staff, has signs made all over, hires contractors who, during a pandemic the likes of which no one has seen before, run miles of cat5 cable, build out the production lines, bring in all new office furniture, dozens of computers, all new lighting, the new shopbot and many new pieces of equipment including table saws and the like for the new design and construction area, fronts the capital for the many parts needed to make a couple of thousand GnR at minimum, interviews and hires new production people, lands Duncan Brown and Bill Grupp amidst a SEA of other prior employees, technicians, engineers and the list goes on and on. Paints everything paves the parking lot, contracts with various new vendors for a cardboard crusher, dumpsters, etc., along with the insurance and all of the headaches of uprooting your established factory and culling together a new one amidst a work from home order, finances countless things including but not limited to the fancy GnR trailers for launch day, all the R&D for title #7 which is underway in the background, hires and trains all (mostly) new staff and on and on and on. There are countless things I haven't thought of which is one of the many reasons why I could never have taken on a job this massive and intense. Following all of that effort and time and commitment, you ask if these guys are stable and in it for the long haul?
Bit of a reach there, don't you think?

It’s 2020, virtually no company is stable with the global environment we are living in.

#4632 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Again, I'm not attacking you personally but just think on this for a moment. This investment group, which conservatively can be said to have more money than at least some third world countries, uplifts the entire operation that has been in NJ since 2013 (really since 2011), closes the factory that had produced all of the first 5 tables along with their many variations in February of 2020, invests I legitimately know not how many millions of dollars in outfitting a new building, consolidating the Illinois staff, has signs made all over, hires contractors who, during a pandemic the likes of which no one has seen before, run miles of cat5 cable, build out the production lines, bring in all new office furniture, dozens of computers, all new lighting, the new shopbot and many new pieces of equipment including table saws and the like for the new design and construction area, fronts the capital for the many parts needed to make a couple of thousand GnR at minimum, interviews and hires new production people, lands Duncan Brown and Bill Grupp amidst a SEA of other prior employees, technicians, engineers and the list goes on and on. Paints everything paves the parking lot, contracts with various new vendors for a cardboard crusher, dumpsters, etc., along with the insurance and all of the headaches of uprooting your established factory and culling together a new one amidst a work from home order, finances countless things including but not limited to the fancy GnR trailers for launch day, all the R&D for title #7 which is underway in the background, hires and trains all (mostly) new staff and on and on and on. There are countless things I haven't thought of which is one of the many reasons why I could never have taken on a job this massive and intense. Following all of that effort and time and commitment, you ask if these guys are stable and in it for the long haul?
Bit of a reach there, don't you think?

What they accomplished is a miracle in these trying times.

LTG : )

#4633 3 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

It’s 2020, virtually no company is stable with the global environment we are living in.

Okay in that sense of the word stable, I agree that's true. My point still holds though.

#4634 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Again, I'm not attacking you personally but just think on this for a moment. This investment group, which conservatively can be said to have more money than at least some third world countries, uplifts the entire operation that has been in NJ since 2013 (really since 2011), closes the factory that had produced all of the first 5 tables along with their many variations in February of 2020, invests I legitimately know not how many millions of dollars in outfitting a new building, consolidating the Illinois staff, has signs made all over, hires contractors who, during a pandemic the likes of which no one has seen before, run miles of cat5 cable, build out the production lines, bring in all new office furniture, dozens of computers, all new lighting, the new shopbot and many new pieces of equipment including table saws and the like for the new design and construction area, fronts the capital for the many parts needed to make a couple of thousand GnR at minimum, interviews and hires new production people, lands Duncan Brown and Bill Grupp amidst a SEA of other prior employees, technicians, engineers and the list goes on and on. Paints everything paves the parking lot, contracts with various new vendors for a cardboard crusher, dumpsters, etc., along with the insurance and all of the headaches of uprooting your established factory and culling together a new one amidst a work from home order, finances countless things including but not limited to the fancy GnR trailers for launch day, all the R&D for title #7 which is underway in the background, hires and trains all (mostly) new staff and on and on and on. There are countless things I haven't thought of which is one of the many reasons why I could never have taken on a job this massive and intense. Following all of that effort and time and commitment, you ask if these guys are stable and in it for the long haul?
Bit of a reach there, don't you think.

Not saying JJP is having any trouble just speaking from a business stand point. If they have more money than some 3rd world countries what's the need for non-refundable deposits?

#4635 3 months ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Not sure how many of u are business men but no matter how rich a company or a individual investor is the bottom line counts and if these billionaire investors take a loss they aren't gonna just keep throwing money at it, maximum profit is the goal. Not saying JJP is having any trouble just speaking from a business stand point. If the have more money than some 3rd world countries what's the need for non-refundable deposits?

Well u answered your own question....because investors are in the business of making money, and they want that customer commitment ....

#4636 3 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

What they accomplished is a miracle in these trying times.

I might add that a couple years before COVID and everything else going on. Pat Lawlor told me these new guys are in it to win it.

It sure looks that way.

LTG : )

#4637 3 months ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Not sure how many of u are business men but no matter how rich a company or a individual investor is the bottom line counts and if these billionaire investors take a loss they aren't gonna just keep throwing money at it, maximum profit is the goal. Not saying JJP is having any trouble just speaking from a business stand point. If the have more money than some 3rd world countries what's the need for non-refundable deposits?

From a business stand point, I can flip that statement right back at you. Cash infusion right from the get go? That's smart business.

#4638 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Thinking of buying an available SE, while I await my LE. Crazy huh? Haven’t heard squat about when the LE will ship, but I’d guess it was this year. But maybe not, I don’t know but I want to start playing one soon. I can rationalize that JJP not responding to customers and vendors with shipping info does not slow down production of the games. Maybe games are shooting out the factory like a greased pig sliding down a water flume. I’ll probably just wait.
This gets back to my point that after JJP runs a few hundred SE’s, the CE’s should be next and the complete run should occur. Give those buyers the first fun after working out a few bugs. Then LE’s and SE’s could be run in smaller alternating batches. Running CE’s first dictates that if you want to play now you have to pay now. I’d probably become a CE buyer.

CE’s are all sold out and spoken for.

#4641 3 months ago
#4642 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I know, right? And some of those ads are 3 weeks old and no takers.

Crazy...

#4643 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I know, right? And many of those ads are 3 weeks old and no sellers.

I like Rai's, wanting to buy a CE without markup!

#4644 3 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I like Rai's, wanting to buy a CE without markup!

Mr SE wants a CE?

#4645 3 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I like Rai's, wanting to buy a CE without markup!

If u don't ask u don't know No telling what these will sell for after they've shipped...could approach POTC numbers ?

#4646 3 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I like Rai's, wanting to buy a CE without markup!

Quoted from kermit24:

Mr SE wants a CE?

I think he meant he wants a CE for the SE price.

#4647 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Bit of a reach there, don't you think?

It is. And I removed it because I got a couple PMs and I don’t need that shit.

My only point is, we’ve had more than one new pinball company come in, accept large non refundable payments and then screw everyone.

This is essentially a new company, and they require small but non refundable payments.

Crazier things have happened. I don’t think this is that, but this is not how I’d do business. Come out and say why they give us an eta?

#4648 3 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

It is. And I removed it because I got a couple PMs and I don’t need that shit.
My only point is, we’ve had more than one new pinball company come in, accept large non refundable payments and then screw everyone.
This is essentially a new company, and they require small but non refundable payments.
Crazier things have happened. I don’t think this is that, but this is not how I’d do business. Come out and say why they give us an eta?

If you have a problem with deposits than just wait....there will be dozens of nice used ones for sale in 6-12 months. I think its great that they are focused on making money, and taking non refundable deposits is the first step towards that. The good news is every customer has an option .... agree to the terms or don't buy....I do however agree that they need to start providing estimated ship dates, and leaving distributors/customers wondering isn't a good thing.

#4649 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Fantastic. So with Wonka we had no preorder and a completely different financial structure and people still complain. POTC was 8 months from reveal to start of shipping so this time with GnR we had nice amount built before even revealing the game so that they could ship at launch. And what am I reading over and over? We aren’t shipping them out fast enough. This is Webster’s definition of a no-win situation.

Hard to gauge how much interest the game will have on reveal. I assume this title has had many more orders than you anticipated. Us Australians are patiently waiting for our orders to reach our shores but being where we are in the world I don't think a single one of us has unrealistic expectations on shipping time

#4650 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Again, I'm not attacking you personally but just think on this for a moment. This investment group, which conservatively can be said to have more money than at least some third world countries, uplifts the entire operation that has been in NJ since 2013 (really since 2011), closes the factory that had produced all of the first 5 tables along with their many variations in February of 2020, invests I legitimately know not how many millions of dollars in outfitting a new building, consolidating the Illinois staff, has signs made all over, hires contractors who, during a pandemic the likes of which no one has seen before, run miles of cat5 cable, build out the production lines, bring in all new office furniture, dozens of computers, all new lighting, the new shopbot and many new pieces of equipment including table saws and the like for the new design and construction area, fronts the capital for the many parts needed to make a couple of thousand GnR at minimum, interviews and hires new production people, lands Duncan Brown and Bill Grupp amidst a SEA of other prior employees, technicians, engineers and the list goes on and on. Paints everything paves the parking lot, contracts with various new vendors for a cardboard crusher, dumpsters, etc., along with the insurance and all of the headaches of uprooting your established factory and culling together a new one amidst a work from home order, finances countless things including but not limited to the fancy GnR trailers for launch day, all the R&D for title #7 which is underway in the background, hires and trains all (mostly) new staff and on and on and on. There are countless things I haven't thought of which is one of the many reasons why I could never have taken on a job this massive and intense. Following all of that effort and time and commitment, you ask if these guys are stable and in it for the long haul?
Bit of a reach there, don't you think?

Well if they can do all this why can’t the get someone to make a damn playfield that doesn’t pool, get games out in a timely manner and at the very least communicate with their customers on timelines for shipping games?

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