Given the market's unstoppable pace of consuming these games no matter how much evidence there is of continued playfield issues, I think most would disagree with you. Most people want their new toy and they want it now. Most don't seem to care about these issues and would rather just have the game right away.

You must be new to Pinball. No such thing.

I'm half tempted to just drain this and all other GNR threads for the next 6-8 months and check back in the Spring. By that time I would think it would be easy to get one either new or used and we'll also have answers to our questions on how the SE vs. LE gameplay holds up, possible issues with the game/clearcoat, etc. I can just go on with life as usual and then be excited again once we have some of these answers and once the game is readily available to purchase for all.

No such thing because people keep buying them. I refuse to purchase Stern until I see better quality. I know my refusal won't hurt their pockets, but if more people were like me and demanded quality we would pressure companies to take time, perfect it, then deliver. That's why I don't care that Stern pushes out 6-8 machines a year, I'd rather the JJP model of 1-2 a year as long as they are quality games and well thought out. If my GnR is a mess when I get it...JJP loses me as a customer until they build up a proven track record again. I don't "need" these machines and my money can go into other things.

What's political about whether or not u like a certain news network I mean there are Bipartisan right? Its just a place to get the latest news. Its not as if they lean one way or the other now is it?

Every manufacturer has had issues with every game they’ve ever made. Expecting perfect is unrealistic in this hobby.

Oh I didn't understand what that post was. "Don't like" isn't strong enough, especially Lemon and Fredo.
Hate it.
Of course I'm talking about citrus fruit and the Godfather.

Therein lies the problem.

I expect perfection when I spend over $9000 on a toy. Not perfect, won't spend, simple. If everyone had higher expectations, companies would strive for perfection. Look, as much as we rag on Deeproot, at least they are trying to find solutions. Who knows, my next game may be a Deeproot. Companies can do it, but they refuse, because they can push crap out the door because people have the mindset of "expecting perfect is unrealistic in this hobby"....Manufactures 1 Customers 0

I would if u haven't ordered one....the reality is nobody wants to wait 6-8 months for a game....if thats was the case I'd get back my deposit, and just buy a nice used one second hand....

JJP's Next Pin is JJP's Current Pin

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Then I suggest buying used so you won’t have surprises.

There hasn’t been consistently perfect machines in pinball for its entire history.

Totally get what your saying, but after being in this hobby for years it will never happen. If this is your standard than I would highly suggest buying nice HUO games that u can inspect prior to purchase...If I get a nice play field and cabinet I'm happy....its these two big ticket items that manufacturers don't stand behind.

Shouldn't you be saying that Kaneda expects perfection and he spoke your idea and it reincarnated inside your DNA but you're not him but biologically, but not on pinside, you are?

Reasonable people understand that if you held manufacturers to that kind of standard, there would be no pinball industry at all.

I agree, but it also becomes tedious. For example, I want a TMNT, like the theme, game seems fun. But not I have to wait for used market. 3 of them pop up, take some time out of my day and go check each one out. All of them have horrible printing on the playfield. So back to searching again...How much is my time worth now. Why do I have to pass on so many because of poor quality? So I either cave and just settle for a low quaility playing field, or, where I stand now, is just give up on the company until they can build up their track record again. NOW, don't get my wrong, wires getting lose, things breaking is normal when a steel ball is hitting things and machine shakes wires lose. That's wear and tear over time and expected, but I want my machine on day one to look and play perfect. Too much to ask for? Seems like it. That's why I'm not balls deep in this hobby.

Is that what the pinball industry is telling you?

Trust me, they would up their game. Look at Spooky, CGC, American pinball. All know the shortcuts that are taken and they up their quality. Deeproots big selling point is they won't cut corners. Same can be said about JJP, they are trying to be better quality. There is a market for better quality.

There's so much wrong with this post its "flabbergasting" (loving that word these days)
If u expect perfection then find a new hobby. Try Fantasy Land. This is a very complex toy u know. Who's ragging on Deeproot? How could u rag on a company that hasn't released anything yet? As for the "crap" comment I'm loving the pins these days, best I've ever played. GnR looks fantastic, AIQ is a blast, Maiden, Dp, SW's, DI. If only the themes would improve I would be a very very happy fat little camper. I'm not gonna stop buying pins because of some pooling or the odd chip. Couldn't care less.

Life is full of choices....of course its tedious as it takes time, but your reward is u save a few bucks, and u eliminate the drama of rolling the dice on a NIB game. I have the same day 1 expectations on the play field and cabinet, because we all know these two items are a pain in the ass to replace. So I get decals if my artwork is messed up (typical solution)? I have zero interest in new decals as they will sit in the box until I sell the game.

Wow.
Stern outsells all of those companies combined. JJP has better quality at a higher price and even they have pooling and chipping PF's. I think ur quite confused as to how expensive it would be to release the "perfection" ur looking for in a pin. U brought up Deeproot again. Fantasy Land kind sir, thats where u need to go shopping for pins.

I'd say that's the issue. These AREN'T toys. They are commercial machines built to be put on location in bars/gamerooms/laundromats/etc. And make money for the operators. We are the ones choosing to put them in our homes and treat them like a damn museum exhibit.

There is always something to complain about lol. Now that the game has been well received and reviews in general are outstanding, let's move to the next phase to complain about...welcome to Pinside Recently, JJP has done a ton to get producing machines faster and more effectively by moving to Chicago and doubling the size of their work space and doubling the line to get machines out faster as well as new tittles more regularly. This takes time! We all know they have made huge strides and probably invested a ton of dough to get here. Patience isn't a virtue and I am sure life will go on while we wait for our games. Oh if anyone is too worried about waiting and has a CE on confirmed order, I would be more than happy to take it off your hands at cost and go through the wait for you!

I don't think asking for a PF that doesn't puddle or chip out of the box is asking for perfection

I dont either but Jacks take on it is: "Its a pinball machine, what do you want?". This is a few months after I got the game.

Out of the box I’m fine with minor adjustments, especially if I’m an early buyer that’s the risk I take. I am not however ok with play field quality issues like pooling, chipping, and bad print work making my game a lemon in the marketplace. It’s definitely smarter to wait and buy huo, but unfortunately people have to buy new if the companies are to stay in business. Sadly, I guess when my gnr arrives, I literally have to take it out of box and fully inspect it before signing off on the delivery. A small price to pay in order to not get a lemon play field I guess.

Totally agree although can u really take the game out of the box and do a complete inspection on the play field and cabinet before signing off?

Agreed. I waited 6 months for each of my last 2 NIB games. Granted 3 months of that wait were because of Covid factory shutdowns. Staring at empty spaces in your line-up with no time-frame of when you're getting your game sucks. I'm not ready to go through that again, so I'll just wait and get one once they are readily available most likely on the HUO market to save a few bucks.

Um....nevermind. I'm not gonna say it. My ire is well documented by this point.

I've done the big waiting game on MMRLE and AFMRLE and it was painful, and I told myself I would never do it again. Lets hope theres some news soon. I'm ok waiting a few months, but 6+ months....no thanks

I think JJP wont make the same mistake they did with WONKA and have the CE guys wait 6+ Months for their game.

So if people are hearing 6-10 weeks for an LE at this point. My thinking is that means they have sold through the LEs they are going to make for the rest of the year. And the reason being CE's will be going on the line within the next couple of weeks.

We don’t know how much demand there is for SE v LE, but I think you’d rather be producing a higher margin game over one with a lower margin. Cash should be their main interest once a game goes into production. It seems demand was underestimated Overall so maybe parts are an issue, I don’t really know...just speculating like everyone else.

Also to comment on the CE's losing value in the next year. For crying out loud most of you cant even get the list of differences correct.

Also some of you keep mentioning another special edition ala YBR WOZ. or BA Hobbit. If you pay attention to the two titles i just mentioned. JJP as a company has changed quite a bit since woz and hobbit. And those are the last games they ever did Extra editions for. No Different DI, POTC, or Wonkas. I believe JJP Realizes and listened to the feedback from their CE customers that it wasnt cool releasing CE Type different versions of the game a year or two after the initial release. And they are more focused on moving on to the next game. For people counting on some special slash edition coming a year from now. I wouldnt hold your breath.

The CE's will not lose value. I can easily see the CE's selling for 18-20k for the next 6-8 months. After that they may drop to 14-16k. And then hold strong at 12,500 after that. I think theres a chance they stay at around the 14k mark or higher.

As for the LEs i easily see them bringing north of 10k for the next 3-4 months. As JJp wont be able to produce enough to keep up with demand.

You guys HAVE to love the crystal ball speculation with monthly time frames. ONLY on Pinside, lol.

I dont think so. Your thinking as if the SE isnt a bargain and nobody wants it. I think plenty of people are interested in the SE. And JJP wants all their models out there for people to experience so they can make a decision on what they want.

They had LEs ready to ship. They sold those.

A quick run of SE's along some more LE's is what they are finishing up now.

Then hopefully CE's go on line next (A couple of weeks)

Then back to LE's and SE's

Not using crystal ball. I used what ive read people post over the last 20 pages, that i read through just now. And what people had said they heard from their distros. Also going off what ive been seeing JJP Themselves posting on their social media.

I think this is the real issue. Not that they are meant for on route profit.

So - Who here has been bugging their distributor or JJP direclty, to advise on when the CE's will all be built and shipped?

Maybe I'm being greedy, but based on the rules (having to play 3 minutes from each album) regarding qualifying album modes, I would like to see more songs added to the game from the UYI albums and Chinese Democracy. I know they basically followed the Not in this Lifetime our setlist, so it makes sense from that standpoint, but I think it would be better if the albums were represented with more songs.

This would make sense because the game is basically nudging you to balance your song selection from the albums, but the songs from said albums are not balanced.

Right now you have:

9 from AFD
6 from UYI I
3 from UYI II
3 from CD
1 from Lies (although Lies is not an album mode)

With that in mind, here would be my selections if I were picking them. (Really if I had it my way, the whole discography would be there)

UYI I - Don't Damn Me

UYU II - 14 Years, KOHD, Get in the Ring, Locomotive

CD - There Was a Time, IRS, Sorry

Totally agree. Compared to what ap and stern is putting thru their doors, this is the hot commodity and will be for a long time.

End of December/Mid January for Canada.

Has anyone seen anything other than renderings for the CE games yet? I didn't see the Expo virtual tour. Did they show off the CE playfields or the mirrored decals? If they didn't I bet it could be a while until those games hit the line.

I would be surprised to see CE games shipped out in 2020. My guess is Q2 of 2021.

It doesn’t matter if the problems develop after playing the machine which seems to be what happens.

After watching the Virtual Expo.... it's plainly obvious where the bottleneck for JJP production lies....

The guy at Micro is too busy changing diapers to be making playfields!

I'm leaning towards a late run LE, after issues are worked out. It would be great to get one of the new Mirco playfields that look more chip resistant as well. I wonder when these are being implemented? This waiting strategy worked for me on my JP2Pre, which has zero issues, very high quality game.

I guess Toobin ordered a Gnr. He’s going to be home for awhile. Plenty of multiball.

Clearly, but my question is does anyone really remove the game from the box, and inspect prior to signing off? I've never heard of anyone doing that before so it was an honest question.

I'll tell ya I do that with Pins and Video games. Let other people deal with the first release issues. Might even save $500 to $1000 on a nice low play used model. Unless its a dream theme of course then I wouldn't be able wait.

Q2 Of 2021 Would be same as wonka CE.

With the new Factory i dont see them taking that long and making that mistake again.

The promo Video was a CE game.

Rumours circulating the early (non-destructive) GnR Micro playfields are identified as being problematic causing the chipping.
If so then two parties would have known the new improved Micro playfield design existed?

1. JJP
2. Micro

With this in mind.....what calculating individual at JJP decided it was a good idea to use the crappy batch for the important 1st run of GnR?

You may be disappointed, and I certainly hope I am wrong. But, even though they got the new factory going, I don’t imagine it’s at 100% capacity due to COVID. Plus, new factory or not, they still have to depend on suppliers for parts who are also not at 100% due to COVID.

Tons of demand + COVID = long wait times. New math sucks.

The promo video looks like a proto game. The actual CE playfield artwork looks different. If they have the CE parts in the factory already I agree that we might see them fairly soon, but if not I think it could be a while to acquire all of the unique parts needed to start assembling games.

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PromoCE (resized).png