Quoted from Tranquilize:

Wonkavision, wonkavator, gobstopper, extremely clever use of SEVEN magnets, captive ball... - insane Lawlor design with combos out your ass... No need for 700 multiballs.
I don't understand your dedication to fighting any tiny criticism of GnR. It has great assets and immersion and some "neat" things like high hats and drumsticks, but it's unlike all previous JJP releases in that it lacks any substantial ball interaction (mechs/toys whatever you want to call them) aside from a second PF and the headstock lock. To many JJP fans, myself included, this sucks. I'll take the mechs over the lightshow and concert footage any day. I'm not playing pinball to look at the screen, and crazy lightshows blind me when I'm playing in my dark dungeon. My DILE is the max I'd ever want for lightshows.
That said, I'll play this on location for sure, but I'd buy Wonka over GnR any day.

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Wonkavision, wonkavator, gobstopper, extremely clever use of SEVEN magnets, captive ball... - insane Lawlor design with combos out your ass... No need for 700 multiballs.
I don't understand your dedication to fighting any tiny criticism of GnR. It has great assets and immersion and some "neat" things like high hats and drumsticks, but it's unlike all previous JJP releases in that it lacks any substantial ball interaction (mechs/toys whatever you want to call them) aside from a second PF and the headstock lock. To many JJP fans, myself included, this sucks. I'll take the mechs over the lightshow and concert footage any day. I'm not playing pinball to look at the screen, and crazy lightshows blind me when I'm playing in my dark dungeon. My DILE is the max I'd ever want for lightshows.
That said, I'll play this on location for sure, but I'd buy Wonka over GnR any day.

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Wonkavision, wonkavator, gobstopper, extremely clever use of SEVEN magnets, captive ball... - insane Lawlor design with combos out your ass... No need for 700 multiballs.
I don't understand your dedication to fighting any tiny criticism of GnR. It has great assets and immersion and some "neat" things like high hats and drumsticks, but it's unlike all previous JJP releases in that it lacks any substantial ball interaction (mechs/toys whatever you want to call them) aside from a second PF and the headstock lock. To many JJP fans, myself included, this sucks. I'll take the mechs over the lightshow and concert footage any day. I'm not playing pinball to look at the screen, and crazy lightshows blind me when I'm playing in my dark dungeon. My DILE is the max I'd ever want for lightshows.
That said, I'll play this on location for sure, but I'd buy Wonka over GnR any day.

Quoted from Psw757:

Anyone else find it odd that multiple distros are still claiming to not know their allotment but yet you see several every day on here taking delivery.

Quoted from LukyDuck:

If this game is built like WOZ, the flipper buttons are two position buttons (i.e. there are two sets of switch contacts). First switch contact activates the lower flippers. The second activates the upper flippers/all of the flippers at once. The skill of using the two switch contacts comes into play in this situation. Less can be more!

Quoted from Eskaybee:

The game sucks, plain and simple. It's time to get off the hype train. Who cares that all the shots are makeable and flow like butter when there's no mech's that you can hit and break. And multiball rules that are clear and concise surrounded by an amazing light show that won't blind me just makes it too easy to add balls and let me play multiball for 20 minutes during welcome to the jungle. And when you're in single ball play, the game is so brutal you can't last 10 seconds because every shot is dangerous. And now if I want my multiball to last longer, I have to survive longer in single ball play and build up the ball saver, what kind of nonsense is that, just give me my 20 minute multiball and let me be. Oh, and then during the multiball madness, i'm supposed to be able to pay attention and lock balls on the mini playfield while keeping the other balls in play and i can't cradle up, w-t-f!?! Then there's this rush that flows through my veins with every moment, just stop it please...give me one ball i can shoot and watch the game interact with for 10 seconds while i sip my tea. The game sucks, the theme sucks...so everyone reading my honest unbiased review, drop your orders..... « Spoiler! Click to reveal. so I get my LE sooner!!!! »

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Wonkavision, wonkavator, gobstopper, extremely clever use of SEVEN magnets, captive ball... - insane Lawlor design with combos out your ass... No need for 700 multiballs.

Quoted from Skyemont:

My thing is if you don’t like GNR and don’t plan on getting it, move on. Don’t ruin it for those who are excited. I’m not in the Avengers thread bashing it like I could. I’m not getting Avengers so I’m not there.

Quoted from Eskaybee:

« Spoiler! Click to reveal. so I get my LE sooner!!!! »

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Wonkavision, wonkavator, gobstopper, extremely clever use of SEVEN magnets, captive ball... - insane Lawlor design with combos out your ass... No need for 700 multiballs.
I don't understand your dedication to fighting any tiny criticism of GnR. It has great assets and immersion and some "neat" things like high hats and drumsticks, but it's unlike all previous JJP releases in that it lacks any substantial ball interaction (mechs/toys whatever you want to call them) aside from a second PF and the headstock lock. To many JJP fans, myself included, this sucks. I'll take the mechs over the lightshow and concert footage any day. I'm not playing pinball to look at the screen, and crazy lightshows blind me when I'm playing in my dark dungeon. My DILE is the max I'd ever want for lightshows.
That said, I'll play this on location for sure, but I'd buy Wonka over GnR any day.

Quoted from Skyemont:

My thing is if you don’t like GNR and don’t plan on getting it, move on. Don’t ruin it for those who are excited. I’m not in the Avengers thread bashing it like I could. I’m not getting Avengers so I’m not there.

Quoted from Palmer:

What about those that are on the fence... looking to temper all of the new buyer/player's genuine excitement (but also a little bias) with some honest concerns? Not everyone drops 10-13K on a game after they watch a promotional video.

Quoted from Thunderbird:

GNR doesn’t appear to be a fun shooter when it comes to real pinball game flow combos

Quoted from Hazoff:

Well thats very subjective to the player. From what I see it plays like a JJP pin as it should. I've never been a fan of that style but some love it. I watched some AIQ and while the theme isn't my cup of tea I could tell right away it plays more to my taste. I saw the Pro today and its not in the same league with regards to appearance. JJP games look great but for me the gameplay never seems to click. However the more underwhelming Sterns when it comes to cosmetics just play better. Some pinsiders love both and some gravitate to one or the other. GnR is breath taking but I played it today, an LE and it was not exciting. AIQ was a serious rush. As I've said before its nice to have options. I will say the MB's aren't an issue, at least they weren't for me but the music and layout were lacking. if ur a JJP fan, and like their games then I doubt u will be disappointed

Quoted from wdbthree:

Agree completely w/ vividpsychosis. LE #315 arrived yesterday at my house (posted a few pics and thoughts in the official owner's thread, if anyone is interested). I don't play competitively/tournaments, but: consider myself a discerning flipper. And: either own or have owned Bally/Williams, JJP, Spooky, Data East, Heighway. And: have put serious play on every game on the top 100 (as a consultant, I <used to> travel every day. frequently stopped at the best pinball spots coast to coast). plus I built a high-end Virtual Pin. I know - it isn't the same thing. But: better than nothing. And: some of the original tables using PinUp Packs are something else (e.g. Harry Potter, Stranger Things, etc.).
ANYWAY, I am completely blown away by GNR. I was *slightly* concerned about gameplay after watching the initial streams. But: grail theme led to an impulse LE order at launch announcement (btw: direct from JJP website. must have been one of the first people to have order processed once you could actually purchase). First time I've bought a pin w/out putting it through its paces (hell: even had several trips to play Alien at SF's Flipper Room before pulling the trigger).
Anyone claiming this game doesn't have "flow" must have a different definition of "flow" than I do. you can absolutely hit orbits/inner loop/ramps for quick action. The light and sound show can be overwhelming on first play. But: the rules are clearly explained on the mini screen and through call-outs. But: WOW the experience. The risk/reward of continuing song mode vs. cashing out adds an awesome dynamic. The light and sound show is absolutely phenomenal, especially as you build momentum in a song.
My only quasi-negative: the Album wizard modes aren't fully fleshed out yet (i hope). They are technically there, but: honestly a bit of a letdown after the mind-melting of crushing a song like "Live and Let Die", earn an encore into the next song, then moving into "boss mode" animations with video-gamey-sound effects. Fully expecting those to get better as code matures (and: let's give props...most games ship with place-holders for wizard modes. GNR has a ton of them out of the box).
Upper playfield is better than Wizard of Oz, but: spiritual successor. most importantly: it does not interrupt the flow of the game like WOZ. I love that some shots can find their way directly to the Gibson headstock/ball lock. The VUK to the bass "string" paths is super cool. The diverter that changes the left ramp from quick turnaround to the upper playfield is also sweet as hell. Will withhold judgement until I get a chance to play a SE to have an opinion to have it changes shots/flow.
Beyond the "collect band members", "start song", "complete album" main mission path, there are a ton of other multi-ball opportunities. Spend a few minutes with the rule sheet on JJP and they go from mysterious to intentional. Can there be a lot going on? Absolutely. Part of the design. But: as stated: the single ball pressure to either start song or end song raises tensions quite a bit. And: as has been said, all multi-balls rules/setting can be fine-tuned to your liking. So far, I've only upped the flipper strengths a bit and turned on Adult mode (needed some "Mr. Brownstone", even with teenagers in the house).
Happy to answer questions as I have one sitting a few feet away. Hope everyone gets a chance to play this; your mileage may vary, but: I'm absolutely thrilled. truly an incredible pinball experience (which: even my wife and teenage girls LOVED, which never happens).
[quoted image]

Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Not sure what your issue is

Quoted from Skyemont:

My thing is if you don’t like GNR and don’t plan on getting it, move on. Don’t ruin it for those who are excited. I’m not in the Avengers thread bashing it like I could. I’m not getting Avengers so I’m not there.

Quoted from Skyemont:

My thing is if you don’t like GNR and don’t plan on getting it, move on. Don’t ruin it for those who are excited. I’m not in the Avengers thread bashing it like I could. I’m not getting Avengers so I’m not there.

Quoted from Hazoff:

I wouldn't say I have an issue outside of personal taste. I can see the appeal of GnR, however the music and the speed/layout of the game isn't for me, is that an issue or just preference in gameplay and theme?

Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Upper playfield doesn’t seem to interrupt the flow as you said so that i wonder if it was really needed, a different design of the left ramp or inner loop (not so smooth shot) could have removed it.

Quoted from Aurich:

Some of us are here because we enjoy discussions, not just sucking off a game. I agree that there are people who just like to shit on other's fun, but honestly unless they're all already on my ignore list I'm not seeing that here.
Being honest and critical while also trying to be positive isn't always a perfect balance. I personally try. I think GNR looks like a stellar effort. I'm trusting the good opinions of the people I know who have played it who seem to really like it. I'm also still a little concerned it's got too much multiball once the new game feeling wears off. I think I'm allowed to talk about everything I think looks great while still having concerns. Why else are we here? I'm not getting paid to sell games or be a marketing shill.
I bet overall it's a real winner of a game, it has too much love to not be. I'd still like to read the negative impressions and thoughts to balance out the people who are maybe a little too enamored. We all know that the new game smell can be a little heady for some and it takes time for the real impressions to settle in.

Quoted from Psw757:

I know the upper PF keeps getting asked about but it isn’t simply losing the upper PF with the SE.
You lose the upper PF, the Gibson slash 6 string ball lock, the fender bass wireform ramp, the vuk and you give up the best art pkg of the 3.
What else am I missing here?
To me the difference are like night and day.

Quoted from zh2oson:

Crap. There's a "click to reveal" feature for forum messages that I didn't know about?

Quoted from zh2oson:

Crap. There's a "click to reveal" feature for forum messages that I didn't know about?

Quoted from Eskaybee:

« Spoiler! Click to reveal. begin with < spoiler > but no spaces, enter text or whatever you want, then end it with < / spoiler > but no spaces »

Quoted from Sluggo39:

I don’t think you get the cymbal pops either

Quoted from Eskaybee:

« Spoiler! Click to reveal. begin with < spoiler > but no spaces, enter text or whatever you want, then end it with < / spoiler > but no spaces »

Quoted from zaphX:

Except for Kid MB, Gobstopper MB, Wonkavator MB and Slugworth MB, the first 3 of which are all required to get golden tickets.
Most of which are stackable.
Oh and hitting the Wonka tower when green gives the "dreaded" add-a-ball feature too.

Quoted from phoenixpin:

Listen, two things can be true at the same time:
- On default settings, GNR may literally have the most time spent in multiball of any game ever, the highest number of types of multiball, and the highest ratio of number of balls/playfield time on an average game (given the frequency of add a ball).
- GNR is one of the most amazing games ever! I ordered an LE myself!
If you want to defend the game as great, you should! But doing so with invalid comparisons might actually inadvertently hurt people’s impressions of the game or at the least invalidate your opinion. Can’t we just say the game is great even with the multiball? You can even argue it’s great because of it if you want?

Quoted from phoenixpin:

- On default settings, GNR may literally have the most time spent in multiball of any game ever, the highest number of types of multiball, and the highest ratio of number of balls/playfield time on an average game (given the frequency of add a ball).

Quoted from 27dnast:

I think #340 on the Pinside Top 400 would beg to differ

Quoted from cooked71:

« Spoiler! Click to reveal. What other tricks you got eskaybee »

Quoted from JMK:

Yeah, I agree with a number of the posters above.
I come to this general thread to hear both sides of the equation.
I am seriously interested in a GnR LE and want to ensure I consider all sides in making this decision. My distributor indicated today he may not be getting an LE in their showroom anytime soon.
As such, I may never get the chance to play an actual LE before making the decision to shelling out around Cdn $14k.
I know the extreme JJP fans virtually love all their releases while there are those who will be unjustifiably cynical of their games.
I owned & enjoyed a DI LE where as other JJP offerings weren’t my thing. Not that they weren’t well designed games, just different strokes & all.
From the early streams, GnR looks awesome, with an unparalleled light show & pinball concert experience.
I can easily see pursuing this title down the road and appreciate hearing the various opinions in this thread.
Regardless, it’s fantastic that JJP have a huge hit on their hands. Competition is good and I’m really looking forward to seeing their future releases.

Quoted from delt31:

for those bumping the strength up - what settings are you finding as perfect?