Quoted from rai:What's your feeling about the upper PF/locks do you think the SE will feel like it's missing too much??
yes
(Topic ID: 278459)
Linked Games
Guns N' Roses (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2020-
Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
-
Guns N' Roses (SE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Topic Gallery
Haddonfield, NJ
im not typically a fan of upper playfields but the guitar ball lock looks so damn cool. I think the SE will shoot better and have more flow, but I just couldnt do without the look of the LE.
Quoted from zaphX:It's a high score award after game over, assuming it works like the photo feature on other JJP games.
Actually, in this game yes it uses the camera as a selfie with Slash at the end but it also uses it during some modes of gameplay to put you on stage during the concert. Really a cool effect actually.
Sydney
Quoted from rai:What's your feeling about the upper PF/locks do you think the SE will feel like it's missing too much??
I honestly don’t think so. An argument can be made that the LE and CE are missing the flow of the SE. It’s all perspective.
Quoted from cooked71:Thats why we have rai here.
LOL. I get where he's coming from. SE is a huge chunk o change saved and l bet that upper pf isn't really missed. Where they get us is those sweet RGB hot rails. Sneaky mofos over there at JJP. They some smart cookies.
Quoted from flynnibus:Be real.. would all these people use the same description if it weren't pre-seeded? How many of these people have been to that show? It's not saying the description isn't valid - it's saying the the reason people get to THAT description in particular vs any other is because they were told that's what it was designed to be.
The power of suggestion is real.
I went to the show here in Pittsburgh in 2016 at Heinz Field, not exactly an amazing venue for concerts, but the twice as occupied/sold out Rolling Stones show a year prior was absolutely unreal!
I don't ever recall it being that dark, so the lights in this game are HYPER focused and "loud". So much so, that I'd actually prefer the hotrails be used ONLY in song modes. Probably the only one that would say it's actually too much light usage.
But yeah, as I've mentioned several times, the sound level raises during songs, footage is mainly played then and on a fairly large display, as well as a side window for actual concert animations, and the hotrails strobe and pulse in nutso ways.
Sounds kinda like a big arena.....concert, doesn't it? 
Unfortunately, the problem I have had with the Stern Avengers game play and the Buffalo Pinball gameplay of Guns and Roses it just wasn't interesting to me. So now I saw the SDTM 25 minute reveal sent to me by a distributor.
It got my attention, I don't need to buy anything right now. I can wait but I do want to see and play the LE and even the SE and go from there. I can add another game but the grandkids play dough and art table will be history unless I sell something.
Cheers
Quoted from Mr68:Anybody else dislike the selfie picture feature? Not a deal breaker of course and I assume it can be turned off in the settings.
Does it interrupt game play?
I am pretty sure, if you hold down the right flipper button, while you push the start button, it disables the camera for that game/player.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:LOL. I get where he's coming from. SE is a huge chunk o change saved and l bet that upper pf isn't really missed. Where they get us is those sweet RGB hot rails. Sneaky mofos over there at JJP. They some smart cookies.
Seriously, he does all the hard thinking for me us. Easier to read than think.lol
Is there any gameplay of the Standard Edition yet? I’m really interested in what the upper left side of the play field looks like in action...
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:Is there any gameplay of the Standard Edition yet? I’m really interested in what the upper left side of the play field looks like in action...
Upper left? It’s a stage with the Axl sculpt and some lights. Not much action there.
Quoted from kermit24:Upper left? It’s a stage with the Axl sculpt and some lights. Not much action there.
Ok thanks, I couldn’t tell what was going on there from the pic. Thought the ball might just go under that section, looked like a huge plastic.
Quoted from indybru:Unfortunately, the problem I have had with the Stern Avengers game play and the Buffalo Pinball gameplay of Guns and Roses it just wasn't interesting to me. So now I saw the SDTM 25 minute reveal sent to me by a distributor.
It got my attention, I don't need to buy anything right now. I can wait but I do want to see and play the LE and even the SE and go from there. I can add another game but the grandkids play dough and art table will be history unless I sell something.
Cheers
Stop by anytime and try both. Your not to far north from me. Best way to make a decision is on your own review. Let me know.
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:Is there any gameplay of the Standard Edition yet? I’m really interested in what the upper left side of the play field looks like in action...
Only the 913th time that's been asked lol. No Se's have shipped yet I believe
Calgary, AB
Quoted from Sako-TRG:So anyone finishing making some cool mods for the LE yet?
Would like to see a nice lockdown button surround + plunger surround for starters
Quoted from BallPin:I'd love to just see a replica of the CE lockdown button. The roses would look good on the red.
Lior has some great mods coming for G&R
Last post here, mention them.
Quoted from allsportdvd:Only the 913th time that's been asked lol. No Se's have shipped yet I believe
How about now, any video of the SE gameplay? 
Quoted from phoenixpin:I honestly don’t think so. An argument can be made that the LE and CE are missing the flow of the SE. It’s all perspective.
Exactly. I've always leaned more towards the Stern Pro's and not because of cost but speed and flow. Plus don't enjoy upper PF's, nothing thrilling to me about toys, especially static toys and ball locks? waste of time. Aren't we all lucky to have options.
Quoted from Yelobird:Don't really feel it needs it though as they seem to have bumped up the speaker system in this game already. My opinion.
I heard they were going to use Bose speakers , do you know if that's correct .
After listening to The Pinball Show episode #33, think Dennis Kriesel nailed his review of GNR and nailed Zack’s hide on his GNR assessment.
Imo, Dennis is definitely the more pinball savy guru in pinball than Zach’s ideas of what makes pinball. If we are talking about pinball execution and flow, with all the geometry needed to make a great pinball machine, Dennis’s assessment on GNR is right on the money. Zach’s retorts don’t hold water and all he could say to counter Dennis is he hasn’t played it yet??? Tisk tisk... In addition, Zach showed almost no class in putting down each good point Dennis was making, with his inserted, “wrong” audio clip. Dennis far out classes Zach in a debate about pinball, with his superior knowledge and understanding.
No one has to play a game to discover from a stream or viewing the layout, whether it works as a good pinball machine or not. Can see straight away from just looking at Houdini’s layout for example, that the shots are really tight and the geometry is not so good.
I trust Dennis to give a fair and objective review. Zach on the other hand, with his bias sales/shill glasses constantly on, not so much. What Dennis and other top pinball players have had to say about GNR not being a very good playing game or being very multiball heavy makes sense. But do not argue that GNR has plenty of theme assets. If all it takes to make one happy in a $12.5k purchase is plenty of lights, with some concert footage on the back box, along with a ball lock or two, that person may be pretty easy to please, imo. But a really good playing pinball machine???? Agree with Dennis on that one: GNR doesn’t appear to be a fun shooter when it comes to real pinball game flow combos, with real objectives to be accomplished, besides just getting a song to play, with multiball after multiball to keep the song going over and over again.
Looks monotonous just like the stream we saw from Buffalo Pinball, like chopping wood. Although Kevin did a good job with what he had. I do appreciate Zach’s effort in pinball media although. Maybe if he just turned down the GNR hype train a bit, as he’s beginning to sound a lot like Kaneda. Dennis is the only reason The Pinball Show stays somewhat credible. Nate Shivers he’ll never be, lol. If you haven’t heard the episode, give it a listen.
Quoted from Thunderbird:After listening to The Pinball Show episode #33, think Dennis Kressal nailed his review of GNR and nailed Zack’s hide on his GNR assessment.
Imo, Dennis is definitely the more pinball savy guru in pinball than Zach’s ideas of what makes pinball. If we are talking about pinball execution and flow, with all the geometry needed to make a great pinball machine, Dennis’s assessment on GNR is right on the money. Zach’s retorts don’t hold water and all he could say to counter Dennis is he hasn’t played it yet??? Tisk tisk... In addition, Zach showed almost no class in putting down each good point Dennis was making, with his inserted, “wrong” audio clip. Dennis far out classes Zach in a debate about pinball, with his superior knowledge and understanding.
No one has to play a game to discover from a stream or viewing the layout, whether it works as a good pinball machine or not. Can see straight away from just looking at Houdini’s layout for example, that the shots are really tight and the geometry is not so good.
I trust Dennis to give a fair and objective review. Zach on the other hand, with his bias sales/shill glasses constantly on, not so much. What Dennis and other top pinball players have had to say about GNR not being a very good playing game or being very multiball heavy makes sense. But do not argue that GNR has plenty of theme assets. If all it takes to make one happy in a $12.5k purchase is plenty of lights, with some concert footage on the back box, along with a ball lock or two, that person may be pretty easy to please, imo. But a really good playing pinball machine???? Agree with Dennis on that one: GNR doesn’t appear to be a fun shooter when it comes to real pinball game flow combos, with real objectives to be accomplished, besides just getting a song to play, with multiball after multiball to keep the song going over and over again.
Looks monotonous just like the stream we saw from Buffalo Pinball, like chopping wood. Although Kevin did a good job with what he had. I do appreciate Zach’s effort in pinball media although. Maybe if he just turned down the GNR hype train a bit, as he’s beginning to sound a lot like Kaneda. Dennis is the only reason The Pinball Show stays somewhat credible. Nate Shivers he’ll never be, lol. If you haven’t heard the episode, give it a listen.
Hey all, DeathSaveArcade (DSA) here,
I owned over 60+ titles, every JJP, Every CGC , every modern Stern in the lcd era, Taf, TZ, tron, LOTR, Tna, Rick and morty, every music pin, Alien, lebowski, and the top bally Williams games. I, unlike the others, have also played the game for 8+ hours. I have won monthly pinball tournaments in nearby arcades as I am a better than average pinball player.
In my 6 years in the hobby, with all those games owned. This is the best JJP game by far and provided me a better experience than any other game in pinball I have ever played. Period.
If you think this game doesn’t have flow, or strategy, then you simply aren’t paying attention. On top of that it provides a new, innovative and unique experience that simply put, has never been given in pinball before and far exceeds any toy, any simple magic moment found in any pinball machine before it.
I played this game for 7-8 hours straight. I’ve never had more fun, I’ve never been happier with how a game shoots and frankly, if I only kept 1 machine in my collection it would be this game.
Scores below are from the pinball bash event at cointaker in PA. After 8 hours of playing, with Franchi, Dr. and Mrs. Pin and many others, I ended up with the GC for the event. The score is also after missing a cash out for nearly 9.5 million on my encore song which would have put me over 17 million.
43F0D4BA-8CAB-4C50-8F60-9C08056A1520 (resized).jpegA80520DC-1F2C-4D24-B480-4EB866EE4861 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Thunderbird:After listening to The Pinball Show episode #33, think Dennis Kressal nailed his review of GNR and nailed Zack’s hide on his GNR assessment.
Imo, Dennis is definitely the more pinball savy guru in pinball than Zach’s ideas of what makes pinball. If we are talking about pinball execution and flow, with all the geometry needed to make a great pinball machine, Dennis’s assessment on GNR is right on the money. Zach’s retorts don’t hold water and all he could say to counter Dennis is he hasn’t played it yet??? Tisk tisk... In addition, Zach showed almost no class in putting down each good point Dennis was making, with his inserted, “wrong” audio clip. Dennis far out classes Zach in a debate about pinball, with his superior knowledge and understanding.
No one has to play a game to discover from a stream or viewing the layout, whether it works as a good pinball machine or not. Can see straight away from just looking at Houdini’s layout for example, that the shots are really tight and the geometry is not so good.
I trust Dennis to give a fair and objective review. Zach on the other hand, with his bias sales/shill glasses constantly on, not so much. What Dennis and other top pinball players have had to say about GNR not being a very good playing game or being very multiball heavy makes sense. But do not argue that GNR has plenty of theme assets. If all it takes to make one happy in a $12.5k purchase is plenty of lights, with some concert footage on the back box, along with a ball lock or two, that person may be pretty easy to please, imo. But a really good playing pinball machine???? Agree with Dennis on that one: GNR doesn’t appear to be a fun shooter when it comes to real pinball game flow combos, with real objectives to be accomplished, besides just getting a song to play, with multiball after multiball to keep the song going over and over again.
Looks monotonous just like the stream we saw from Buffalo Pinball, like chopping wood. Although Kevin did a good job with what he had. I do appreciate Zach’s effort in pinball media although. Maybe if he just turned down the GNR hype train a bit, as he’s beginning to sound a lot like Kaneda. Dennis is the only reason The Pinball Show stays somewhat credible. Nate Shivers he’ll never be, lol. If you haven’t heard the episode, give it a listen.
But you haven’t played it Thunderbird
Quoted from jandrea95:When rai walks into a car dealer the car salesmen scatter, haha. All in fun rai.
If we didn’t have rai here it’d be 90% rambling drivel and 10% rational thought.
rai increases the rational stuff by at least 2%.
Quoted from Thunderbird:After listening to The Pinball Show episode #33, think Dennis Kressal nailed his review of GNR and nailed Zack’s hide on his GNR assessment.
Imo, Dennis is definitely the more pinball savy guru in pinball than Zach’s ideas of what makes pinball. If we are talking about pinball execution and flow, with all the geometry needed to make a great pinball machine, Dennis’s assessment on GNR is right on the money. Zach’s retorts don’t hold water and all he could say to counter Dennis is he hasn’t played it yet??? Tisk tisk... In addition, Zach showed almost no class in putting down each good point Dennis was making, with his inserted, “wrong” audio clip. Dennis far out classes Zach in a debate about pinball, with his superior knowledge and understanding.
No one has to play a game to discover from a stream or viewing the layout, whether it works as a good pinball machine or not. Can see straight away from just looking at Houdini’s layout for example, that the shots are really tight and the geometry is not so good.
I trust Dennis to give a fair and objective review. Zach on the other hand, with his bias sales/shill glasses constantly on, not so much. What Dennis and other top pinball players have had to say about GNR not being a very good playing game or being very multiball heavy makes sense. But do not argue that GNR has plenty of theme assets. If all it takes to make one happy in a $12.5k purchase is plenty of lights, with some concert footage on the back box, along with a ball lock or two, that person may be pretty easy to please, imo. But a really good playing pinball machine???? Agree with Dennis on that one: GNR doesn’t appear to be a fun shooter when it comes to real pinball game flow combos, with real objectives to be accomplished, besides just getting a song to play, with multiball after multiball to keep the song going over and over again.
Looks monotonous just like the stream we saw from Buffalo Pinball, like chopping wood. Although Kevin did a good job with what he had. I do appreciate Zach’s effort in pinball media although. Maybe if he just turned down the GNR hype train a bit, as he’s beginning to sound a lot like Kaneda. Dennis is the only reason The Pinball Show stays somewhat credible. Nate Shivers he’ll never be, lol. If you haven’t heard the episode, give it a listen.
Sure Dennis is allowed his opinion , but I give more validation to the opinions of people like Zack and vivid , who have put serious time on the machine rather than someone who is giving their opinion off watching the game on their phone , computer or TV .
Trollhättan
Quoted from Thunderbird:After listening to The Pinball Show episode #33, think Dennis Kressal nailed his review of GNR and nailed Zack’s hide on his GNR assessment.
Imo, Dennis is definitely the more pinball savy guru in pinball than Zach’s ideas of what makes pinball. If we are talking about pinball execution and flow, with all the geometry needed to make a great pinball machine, Dennis’s assessment on GNR is right on the money. Zach’s retorts don’t hold water and all he could say to counter Dennis is he hasn’t played it yet??? Tisk tisk... In addition, Zach showed almost no class in putting down each good point Dennis was making, with his inserted, “wrong” audio clip. Dennis far out classes Zach in a debate about pinball, with his superior knowledge and understanding.
No one has to play a game to discover from a stream or viewing the layout, whether it works as a good pinball machine or not. Can see straight away from just looking at Houdini’s layout for example, that the shots are really tight and the geometry is not so good.
I trust Dennis to give a fair and objective review. Zach on the other hand, with his bias sales/shill glasses constantly on, not so much. What Dennis and other top pinball players have had to say about GNR not being a very good playing game or being very multiball heavy makes sense. But do not argue that GNR has plenty of theme assets. If all it takes to make one happy in a $12.5k purchase is plenty of lights, with some concert footage on the back box, along with a ball lock or two, that person may be pretty easy to please, imo. But a really good playing pinball machine???? Agree with Dennis on that one: GNR doesn’t appear to be a fun shooter when it comes to real pinball game flow combos, with real objectives to be accomplished, besides just getting a song to play, with multiball after multiball to keep the song going over and over again.
Looks monotonous just like the stream we saw from Buffalo Pinball, like chopping wood. Although Kevin did a good job with what he had. I do appreciate Zach’s effort in pinball media although. Maybe if he just turned down the GNR hype train a bit, as he’s beginning to sound a lot like Kaneda. Dennis is the only reason The Pinball Show stays somewhat credible. Nate Shivers he’ll never be, lol. If you haven’t heard the episode, give it a listen.
If there was a twipy for most boring person in pinball Dennis Kriesel would win every year.
Have anybody ever heard that guy beeing enthusiastic about anything?
Quoted from Dr-pin:If there was a twipy for most boring person in pinball Dennis Kriesel would win every year.
Have anybody ever heard that guy beeing enthusiastic about anything?
AIQ isnt a fan layout.
Quoted from Dr-pin:If there was a twipy for most boring person in pinball Dennis Kriesel would win every year.
Have anybody ever heard that guy beeing enthusiastic about anything?
Government audits ?
Quoted from screaminr:I heard they were going to use Bose speakers , do you know if that's correct .
That was just a traditional Pinside rumor.
Quoted from Yelobird:That was just a traditional Pinside rumor.
I thought that sounded too good to be true .
( pun intended )
I guess I don't understand why Zach liking it or Dennis not liking it has any bearing on anyone else's opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love listening to Pinball Show and a couple other podcasts. But the only difference between me, you, a random dude at the arcade, and any of those podcasters is that they invested in a microphone.
Dennis gives a great (but unplayed) perspective from the more competitive side. Zach prefers easy shots and whatever is new. The guys on Slam Tilt play tournaments and have a good idea of what works on location. Buffalo will never say anything negative about Jersey Jack. They all have varied opinions based on their individual lenses.
And none of them are right, and none of them are wrong. They like what they like, and so do the rest of us.
Quoted from Yelobird:That was just a traditional Pinside rumor.
We really need a Snopes for Pinside.
Quoted from heyitsjoebob:I guess I don't understand why Zach liking it or Dennis not liking it has any bearing on anyone else's opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love listening to Pinball Show and a couple other podcasts. But the only difference between me, you, a random dude at the arcade, and any of those podcasters is that they invested in a microphone.
Dennis gives a great (but unplayed) perspective from the more competitive side. Zach prefers easy shots and whatever is new. The guys on Slam Tilt play tournaments and have a good idea of what works on location. Buffalo will never say anything negative about Jersey Jack. They all have varied opinions based on their individual lenses.
And none of them are right, and none of them are wrong. They like what they like, and so do the rest of us.
So what you like in Pinball is subjective and someone else's likes/dislikes has on bearing on yours
At first I was against not being able to cradle MB'S, but let's face it, you can do this on EVERY other game.
Good to have something different, and if it's not a game that tournament players like, does it matter?
There are 100's of other tournament games.
That said, if this is aimed more at the casual player, I don't get the low scoring aspect of JJP games.
The brain is conditioned in a way that higher scores/jackpots, give us a bigger reward feeling.
Another reason why AFM is so popular with casual players.
Annan
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Only thing I’m worried about is I’m really crap at tilting. When the ball is going SDTM.... I just stare at it and do nothing, frozen in time.
I guess I may be really bad at this pin so the multi-balls will help me out
Nudging is critical in all pinball and even more so in this game. If you don't nudge, you will likely be frustrated. A common mystery reward is extra tilt warnings, so use them!
Quoted from nicoy3k:What do you mean you can’t cradle MBs?
When you are in songs, where you will likely have mb, you cannot cradle in this game or it will end the song and boo you off stage. Songs are flow only play. Learn to shoot shots with mb without stopping or your rock meter will plummet.
Quoted from nicoy3k:What do you mean you can’t cradle MBs?
You can cradle. I just wouldn't do it too long. When you hold the flippers up, the "Rock It" meter goes down faster. So if you hold the flippers up for a while AND don't make shots, you will get booed off the stage quicker because your meter will drain fast.
This dynamic is JUST in song modes. Any other multi-ball or mode doesn't use this.
Quoted from nicoy3k:is it measuring your holding up the flipper or just not hitting a switch?
It measures holding the flipper button. If you make a mode shot your meter will shoot up. So you could cradle somewhat as long as you keep making shots. I wouldn't do it much as a practice in Song modes.
Köln
Quoted from VividPsychosis:Hey all, DeathSaveArcade (DSA) here,
I owned over 60+ titles, every JJP, Every CGC , every modern Stern in the lcd era, Taf, TZ, tron, LOTR, Tna, Rick and morty, every music pin, Alien, lebowski, and the top bally Williams games. I, unlike the others, have also played the game for 8+ hours. I have won monthly pinball tournaments in nearby arcades as I am a better than average pinball player.
In my 6 years in the hobby, with all those games owned. This is the best JJP game by far and provided me a better experience than any other game in pinball I have ever played. Period.
If you think this game doesn’t have flow, or strategy, then you simply aren’t paying attention. On top of that it provides a new, innovative and unique experience that simply put, has never been given in pinball before and far exceeds any toy, any simple magic moment found in any pinball machine before it.
I played this game for 7-8 hours straight. I’ve never had more fun, I’ve never been happier with how a game shoots and frankly, if I only kept 1 machine in my collection it would be this game.
Scores below are from the pinball bash event at cointaker in PA. After 8 hours of playing, with Franchi, Dr. and Mrs. Pin and many others, I ended up with the GC for the event. The score is also after missing a cash out for nearly 9.5 million on my encore song which would have put me over 17 million.
I appreciate the gushing enthusiasm, but could you describe a bit more in detail what you liked about it? Maybe tell us a bit about your strategy when playing, how are the song modes different from each other and what you’re trying to accomplish in these modes, what you‘re doing when not in song modes, what other modes did you enjoy and why.
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:Ok thanks, I couldn’t tell what was going on there from the pic. Thought the ball might just go under that section, looked like a huge plastic.
the stage goes over the lower PF, the ball does go under the stage is just a roof over the lower PF.
Probably the lower PF is mostly the same between the SE and the LE
Quoted from branlon8:I appreciate the gushing enthusiasm, but could you describe a bit more in detail what you liked about it? Maybe tell us a bit about your strategy when playing, how are the song modes different from each other and what you’re trying to accomplish in these modes, what you‘re doing when not in song modes, what other modes did you enjoy and why.
I will update when my game arrives Thursday and I have more detailed info regarding strategy. Currently, the strategy was to gather the band, attempt to lock as many balls in the guitar neck as possible before the song. Then play the song and hit the required shots while not cradling. Each song has different required shots, some are just switch hits. My highest recommendation is to continue songs and try to complete them if you want high scores. Cashing out early may be safer but it won’t help your score. Also the game is most dangerous on single ball play post or pre song play.
When the scoop is lit, in or out of song. It is priority #1.
What I liked about it is very hard to describe without actually playing the game. It’s a feeling unlike any other pinball machine has provided. It’s an immersive unique experience that puts you in control of an epic concert moment. I don’t really have another way to describe it. There is a lot of risk reward that good players will enjoy. Many strategies to raise your score higher than those that play longer than you. The flow is the best of any JJP. Top sound, obviously the best light show and the code is simple to understand but hard to master.
My strategy was just to hit the band stuff to kick off a song. I didn't know enough about the rules to work towards the side multiballs or anything else non-song. I always chose to add-a-ball to keep the songs going, but that always ended up costing me in the end when I'd drain out. There's like, zero ball save! Risk reward is well implemented.
I'm heading back to the local spot this evening to put more time on and see if it's as fun as I remember it being last week.
I haven't played it, but I've been told by friends in leagues that played it that the outlanes are REALLY hungry.
Good shots "reward you" with immediate drains. Could be the reason multiball / add-a-ball dominates play, otherwise it's a quick game.
Light show looks amazing. Is it hard on the eyes? I've had to put different more toned down flashers in older games that I've put leds in because the flashers were blinding me.
Quoted from Guinnesstime:I haven't played it, but I've been told by friends in leagues that played it that the outlanes are REALLY hungry.
Good shots "reward you" with immediate drains. Could be the reason multiball / add-a-ball dominates play, otherwise it's a quick game.
Whatever game they were playing was not setup properly. There is not a single shot that you make the punishes you with a drain. Not 1. For example, on poorly setup games, the under the right flipper shot will drain out the right outlane. (Correct setup) goes to the right rubber and bounces to the left flipper. The scoop (when not setup right) will drain sdtm) when it’s setup properly it goes directly to the left flipper. The right loop, goes to the left flipper and the left loop goes to the upper right flipper when properly setup.
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