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(Topic ID: 278459)

Guns N' Roses...It's here!


By pin2d

60 days ago



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  • 644 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by PinFever
  • Topic is favorited by 142 Pinsiders

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#2851 50 days ago
Quoted from mbrave77:

The streams Ive watched dont really make it seem like a great shooting game when compared to some other recent ones but time will tell. I doubt itll shoot as well as say Dialed In. I have one on order(LE) and even if it doesnt end up being the best shooter the experience will overcome it imho.

This is my problem watching a lot of the streams when you have 4-6 balls and you are shooting on the fly and you can lose the ball because it's lots of ball save timer and lots of add a ball. That I can't see how well it shoots because people are just hitting the balls and they go 'somewhere' doesn't seem to matter because if you miss one ball there are 10 other chances.

I think a lot of people will like the constant multiball aspect (I know it's not 100% of the time but more often than not). I think it's just a different brand of pinball. Like when pinball went from short flippers to long flippers, maybe that was a change of the fundamental way of playing and maybe this is something that will be fun with GnR.

I like the idea someone posted if you lose a ball maybe that counts against your excitement meter or the more flips you make the quicker you drain the meter (maybe it does that anyway and I just don't realize it).

#2852 50 days ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I think Stern has been doing pretty well lately code wise, considering they're putting out 3 to 4 games a year. The polish JJP is able to give to their code with their slower release schedule is one of the things I really like about their games.

The rate Stern has put out code has been far better for a year or two now

#2853 50 days ago

I don't think I can buy this game .
The light for Melbourne is in bloody South Australia , besides that everything looks great

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#2854 50 days ago

Whether this ends up being the greatest game ever or a multiball marathon I'm sure listening to a shitload of GNR lately .

#2855 50 days ago
Quoted from manadams:

Whether this ends up being the greatest game ever or a multiball marathon .

#2856 50 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

both of you sound like "my dad can beat up your dad" . They are both amazing designers and I for one am happy the older are getting replaced with the awesomness of these two! There is no "better", they both are good and we now have tough decisions on what amazing games to buy and from what company! that my friend is good for this hobby!

Thanks ambassador...

#2857 50 days ago

If any owners are actually tired of having their choice of game purchase shit on, there is an owners thread. Just sayin'....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/14#post-5900418

#2858 50 days ago

Have to say, the shiny surface (Mylar) on the LE really makes a difference to the finish.
That was a good call by Eric.

#2859 50 days ago
Quoted from rai:

This is my problem watching a lot of the streams when you have 4-6 balls and you are shooting on the fly and you can lose the ball because it's lots of ball save timer and lots of add a ball. That I can't see how well it shoots because people are just hitting the balls and they go 'somewhere' doesn't seem to matter because if you miss one ball there are 10 other chances.
I think a lot of people will like the constant multiball aspect (I know it's not 100% of the time but more often than not). I think it's just a different brand of pinball. Like when pinball went from short flippers to long flippers, maybe that was a change of the fundamental way of playing and maybe this is something that will be fun with GnR.
I like the idea someone posted if you lose a ball maybe that counts against your excitement meter or the more flips you make the quicker you drain the meter (maybe it does that anyway and I just don't realize it).

Thats actually a good idea. I also think in song multiball there should be no ball save timer. Or make it like 10 seconds. Kind of like Wonkas short Multi balls.

-2
#2860 50 days ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

From all streams it's really hard to understand what to do. There's so many multiballs, it all looks like flipping without a purpose.

Quoted from kermit24:

The mini screen in the back tells you EXACTLY what to do. When in doubt, check it out.

In the middle of multiball looking up at the mini screen is not an option

#2861 50 days ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

Have to say, the shiny surface (Mylar) on the LE really makes a difference to the finish.
That was a good call by Eric.

I believe the Wonka side art had the same finish. I was pretty impressed with the gloss on the SE side art. It's a great change!

#2862 50 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

100 LE’s are boxed and shipping
100 SE’s are on the line (50 per week)
100 CE’s should be in the line 10-26-20
Not sure where January came from. Are you getting a GNR’s?

The irony is the success of the game will cause long wait times as in the past even though they now have there shit together

#2863 50 days ago

Has anyone streamed the SE yet? I am pretty sure the LE is the way to go but I would love to see the differences in action.

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#2864 50 days ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

The vision is, you do all this work to get a song and it would be nice to hear more than 6 seconds of it

I think most people with half a brain already understood this, but it's nice to hear it from the coder.

People who work on the games would probably post more if people on Pinside weren't always giant cocks about making everything personal. There was a post listing Borg's games, several of them all time classics that Pinside has championed hardcore for years, and then called him overrated. Get over yourself, it's childish and pathetic. There would be no JJP if Borg hadn't been there to help keep the lights on at Stern during some dark years for pinball.

Everyone should just let the multiball thing go already unless you have some new insight to add that hasn't been said 20 times. The game was designed to let you hear the songs even if you're a less than great player. It's a rock game with rock music that it wants you to rock out to. That's the game. It's not a mistake, it's a style.

There are lots of games that will happily drain your ball and then kick you in the balls if that's more your style. If you like more single ball play with combo shots and progression of a story I hear this Keith Elwin guy is worth looking at.

Except for the ridiculous prices pinball is just overflowing with great options. Try and appreciate it more instead of non-stop complaining.

#2865 50 days ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I think most people with half a brain already understood this, but it's nice to hear it from the coder.
People who work on the games would probably post more if people on Pinside weren't always giant cocks about making everything personal. There was a post listing Borg's games, several of them all time classics that Pinside has championed hardcore for years, and then called him overrated. Get over yourself, it's childish and pathetic. There would be no JJP if Borg hadn't been there to help keep the lights on at Stern during some dark years for pinball.
Everyone should just let the multiball thing go already unless you have some new insight to add that hasn't been said 20 times. The game was designed to let you hear the songs even if you're a less than great player. It's a rock game with rock music that it wants you to rock out to. That's the game. It's not a mistake, it's a style.
There are lots of games that will happily drain your ball and then kick you in the balls if that's more your style. If you like more single ball play with combo shots and progression of a story I hear this Keith Elwin guy is worth looking at.
Except for the ridiculous prices pinball is just overflowing with great options. Try and appreciate it more instead of non-stop complaining.

Pot meet Kettle

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#2866 50 days ago

I have owned Williams, Bally’s, Gottlieb, data east and have always routed my pins. I’m now 60 years old and own 10 pins and have 5 newer sterns in my bar for customers to play. I have played JJP before and had no interest in buying one until now. I just thought stern had done it right with the balance of back glass and screen.
The pricing may have kept me from buying JJ until now. The Gun N’ Roses pin is beautiful! The attention to detail is off the chart. I would love to wake up with this pin in my bedroom and stand there in the morning in my underwear, with a cup of coffee standing over it. I say LE and I know the extra cost may send some peeps to buy the SE but I would not want to own this knowing there is so much more to this pin.
I watched SDTM interview with Eric and he said they reached out to the original artist who did or does the posters for the band and that would be another reason for me to buy the LE with poster artwork on the cabinet.
The release of this pin is a great day for all the pinball manufacturers.

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#2867 50 days ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Pot meet Kettle [quoted image]

There's a difference between discussion, constructive criticism, and making every personal.

Nobody said you have to like everything, or can't discuss what you don't care for. There's a vast difference between "I prefer what JJP is doing to GNR than the style of games Stern is making, they don't put the extra time in that matters to me as a customer" and "Fuck John Borg, he's a half assed designer, and here's a list of all his non accomplishments".

Pinside is full of shit talkers who hide behind keyboards and throw trash at the people who actually produce things in this hobby. They read what people say, and it's hurtful. I know this because they've told me so. Why would anyone from Stern post here after the kind of abuse people toss their way?

I've worked on a game, I've put my projects here in public, and people are free to criticize them all they want. People who've made it personal are bitches on my ignore list.

Either you see the difference or you don't, but the creators of this hobby, the people who without them none of this would exist, don't deserve to be personally shat on.

#2868 50 days ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Either you see the difference or you don't, but the creators of this hobby, the people who without them none of this would exist, don't deserve to be personally shat on.

But in the same sense, those designers also can get quite a good bit of deserved praise.

That post on Borg today was just daft, and just yesterday a dude shat all over TAF, which is just goofy.

Thing is, when people work in media and production, their caliber of work WILL be viewed, and then praised, worshipped, or scrutinized, and shat on. Big. Deal.

If it was ALL shit, I'd whole heartedly agree, but the reality is that praise comes more than criticism. And snark and bitterness is kind of the theme of the era, and ever present in well...
.media, be it comedy, journalism, the news, etc. Par for the course, sadly. And compassion and empathy, just ain't at the front of the list for human traits most days, especially when ego is involved, which is all this forum is about most days.

Mrs. Garrett said it best, "You take the good, ya take the bad, people are pinside are arse kissers, and also just plain arseholes...and there ya have, the Facts of Pinside! Dooh...doo!" Err, sumthin' like that.

#2869 49 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Eric himself said in the Super Awesome Pinball Podcast the game can be challenging to shoot, and also that he wanted some things in the game, had to scale back a bit. That's pretty unbiased, and from the designer himself.
Delt and I had pretty leveled thoughts on Wednesday, and I know we're both in on a game. Well me, down the road.
No game is perfect, but THIS is ideal.
That interview is really enjoyable, and worth a listen by the way. Eric discussing those roll over piano keys, that aren't mechanical switches, sounds amazing, and the little audio design touches, truly inspiring stuff!

Did JJP suggest a certain pitch in documentation? I kept wondering the other day....

Sometimes it's fun to ride a wave of excitement! It's genuinely rare in this hobby, and fortunately R&M, Hot Wheels, TMNT, Avengers, and now GnR have all had a nice first week of upbeat energy!
I maintain that energy to the very moment I played all of those games, and then at that point, after a few games, and then some reflection, you see where things fall out.
Until then, why not ride the fun wave? What else do we have to be excited about, in general, and as pinheads?

In the manual they simply show a standard pitch setup. With most JJP games you set pitch and outlanes to your liking or skill level. I personally Hate games that only work at one micro precision Specific pitch level. Bad design in my view.

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#2870 49 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

In the manual they simply show a standard pitch setup. With most JJP games you set pitch and outlanes to your liking or skill level. I personally Hate games that only work at one micro precision Specific pitch level. Bad design in my view.
[quoted image]

Thanks for posting that Dave! Kinda figured designer pitch was 6.5. Always seems to be the standard recommendation for JJP games. I know most Hobbit owners shoot around 7.0.

I either feel like usually my leveling skills are off...or...my gameplay skills.

Most likely, both!

#2871 49 days ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

The vision is, you do all this work to get a song and it would be nice to hear more than 6 seconds of it

I'm not to disagree with you but you said they do all this work to get a song, isn't it just qualify the 7 band inserts and aren't 3 of them spotted for you if you don't do it on the first or second ball. Just questioning how much work is it to get the song started? It's like starting Fellowship of the Ring MB with only 7 members (not 9) 2-3 members are spotted for you instead of 9 full needed for Fellowship you need just 4 shots, probably is a menu setting to make it harder to start a song no members spotted for example.

Qualifying:

This multiball is qualified by collecting each member of the Fellowship, then
shooting Barad Dur to start.

#2872 49 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Thanks for posting that Dave! Kinda figured designer pitch was 6.5. Always seems to be the standard recommendation for JJP games. I know most Hobbit owners shoot around 7.0.
I either feel like usually my leveling skills are off...or...my gameplay skills.
Most likely, both!

For clarity.... In the Manual (that anyone can download), they are simply saying with all the levelers in the pitch should be close to 6.5 as a Baseline not necessarily the recommended pitch. Thats how API games go... JJP games you set the pitch by your preference and skill level. I tend to shoot for 7.4 degrees but there is no wrong answer as the game will play great no matter how you set it up granted you May have to fine tune the coil settings to match.

#2873 49 days ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm not to disagree with you but you said they do all this work to get a song, isn't it just qualify the 7 band inserts and aren't 3 of them spotted for you if you don't do it on the first or second ball. Just questioning how much work is it to get the song started? It's like starting Fellowship of the Ring MB with only 7 members (not 9) 2-3 members are spotted for you instead of 9 full needed for Fellowship you need just 4 shots, probably is a menu setting to make it harder to start a song no members spotted for example. So it's like Fellowship MB was started after collecting just 4 members (the other 5 being spotted for you).

I'll only say (mind you Not the best player or even good) there are Many games I do not get a song playing. Trust me especially the outlanes this game is Not simple!

#2874 49 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

For clarity.... In the Manual (that anyone can download), they are simply saying with all the levelers in the pitch should be close to 6.5 as a Baseline not necessarily the recommended pitch. Thats how API games go... JJP games you set the pitch by your preference and skill level. I tend to shoot for 7.4 degrees but there is no wrong answer as the game will play great no matter how you set it up granted you May have to fine tune the coil settings to match.

Oh shit, yeah...forgot that that's how API does theirs. I think POTC was set around 6.5, also?

Do you feel API games are really necessary to set at 6.5? Have you found mechs or scoops don't work otherwise? (I wasn't sure if you were being serious or not prior.)

Yeah, I was checking out the manual to see what parts were involved on the spinning disc assembly the other day. Always nice to download their manuals. Barry seems to have put together solid work there! Definitely miss Butch as well.

#2875 49 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I'll only say (mind you Not the best player or even good) there are Many games I do not get a song playing. Trust me especially the outlanes this game is Not simple!

Thanks,

I assume you bought the game without ever playing it? Are you happy with the layout and rules so far?? I am itching to buy one but wanted to get some more feedback from owners? How do you feel about the upper PF? Is it fun to shoot?

#2876 49 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Oh shit, yeah...forgot that that's how API does theirs. I think POTC was set around 6.5, also?
Do you feel API games are really necessary to set at 6.5? Have you found mechs or scoops don't work otherwise? (I wasn't sure if you were being serious or not prior.)
Yeah, I was checking out the manual to see what parts were involved on the spinning disc assembly the other day. Always nice to download their manuals. Barry seems to have put together solid work there! Definitely miss Butch as well.

On API, yes if you read that thread.... Basically if you want the Houdini throw to work you have to have you house voltage to within .00001 volts and the pitch to 6.456667 degrees. lol On POTC JJp you could set that at any angle and it works perfectly for me anyway.

#2877 49 days ago

I prefer default settings also, and of course understand the direction the code has gone. As stated, it’s like an interactive concert or like playing an interactive jukebox. You don’t just listen, you play pinball at the same time. And for that you need longer ball times - you don’t go to a concert only to be kicked out after 3 minutes.

Surely JJP can have a “competition” or “kick in the nuts” option that plays more like a traditional game? Would be a better investment of coding time than a co-op mode for this game.

16
#2878 49 days ago
Quoted from rai:

Thanks,
I assume you bought the game without ever playing it? Are you happy with the layout and rules so far?? I am itching to buy one but wanted to get some more feedback from owners? How do you feel about the upper PF? Is it fun to shoot?

My opinion really would have no value as I suspect we like All pinball players find different things important in their selection and buying experience. I am NOT tied to interest in ANY one OEM pinball builder. I don't care who the builder is as long as my wife and I enjoy it! With that said, for me in the Hundreds of games I have every owned this one is without Question the most immersive high speed adrenaline game I have ever owned. Hands down. Yes, you Must at least Like the band to fully enjoy. The art, the shot map, the features are SOoo well executed I can honestly say I can't think of one thing Eric should have changed. I do find it sad many are judging the game (mulitballs) by a few stock code settings game play videos? You set the game up like YOU like it. Turn off all "add a balls", extra balls, etc as you wish! Just remember we "pinball sharpshooter experts" are only 5% of the buying market for a title like this. Many, like me, just want to enjoy a Great game and use handicapped code settings to enjoy just a bit more of the experience. This game IS an experience!

#2879 49 days ago

Pull the glass, spin the disc, be amazed!!!

#2880 49 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Pull the glass, spin the disc, be amazed!!!

What do you mean?

#2881 49 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

What do you mean?

on your GnR pinball, pull the glass out, and spin the disc with your fingers......and enjoy!

#2882 49 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

What do you mean?

You’ll see
Gotta do it.

#2883 49 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

My opinion really would have no value as I suspect we like All pinball players find different things important in their selection and buying experience. I am NOT tied to interest in ANY one OEM pinball builder. I don't care who the builder is as long as my wife and I enjoy it! With that said, for me in the Hundreds of games I have every owned this one is without Question the most immersive high speed adrenaline game I have ever owned. Hands down. Yes, you Must at least Like the band to fully enjoy. The art, the shot map, the features are SOoo well executed I can honestly say I can't think of one thing Eric should have changed. I do find it sad many are judging the game (mulitballs) by a few stock code settings game play videos? You set the game up like YOU like it. Turn off all "add a balls", extra balls, etc as you wish! Just remember we "pinball sharpshooter experts" are only 5% of the buying market for a title like this. Many, like me, just want to enjoy a Great game and use handicapped code settings to enjoy just a bit more of the experience. This game IS an experience!

well said....it looks like a great shooter, and I high energy game. This is exactly what a music pin should be. i've owned all the JJP pins and from my experience the code is sooooo deep it takes a long time to really understand the game and see all that if offers.

#2884 49 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Pull the glass, spin the disc, be amazed!!!

Here's the link if you have Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=351330952649845

#2885 49 days ago
Quoted from ellips6:

on your GnR pinball, pull the glass out, and spin the disc with your fingers......and enjoy!

Quoted from NashtyFunk:

You’ll see
Gotta do it.

Cointaker did it today. That’s sweet.

#2886 49 days ago

Hitting up Jackbar in Brooklyn tomorrow to give this fucker a go. To me, the game LOOKS beautiful, but maybe a tad underwhelming shot-wise. I do suspect that once I am in front of it I'll love it.

#2887 49 days ago
Quoted from ellips6:

on your GnR pinball, pull the glass out, and spin the disc with your fingers......and enjoy!

Hahahaha

#2888 49 days ago

That is a hilarious easter egg. NICE. Hope its real

#2889 49 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

In the middle of multiball looking up at the mini screen is not an option

Yes it is. The inserts also tell you what to do.

#2890 49 days ago

Ha! I posted the same thing few days ago on FB.
NO BANDS go to Adelaide! lol

Quoted from screaminr:

I don't think I can buy this game .
The light for Melbourne is in bloody South Australia , besides that everything looks great
[quoted image]

#2891 49 days ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's a difference between discussion, constructive criticism, and making every personal.
Nobody said you have to like everything, or can't discuss what you don't care for. There's a vast difference between "I prefer what JJP is doing to GNR than the style of games Stern is making, they don't put the extra time in that matters to me as a customer" and "Fuck John Borg, he's a half assed designer, and here's a list of all his non accomplishments".
Pinside is full of shit talkers who hide behind keyboards and throw trash at the people who actually produce things in this hobby. They read what people say, and it's hurtful. I know this because they've told me so. Why would anyone from Stern post here after the kind of abuse people toss their way?
I've worked on a game, I've put my projects here in public, and people are free to criticize them all they want. People who've made it personal are bitches on my ignore list.
Either you see the difference or you don't, but the creators of this hobby, the people who without them none of this would exist, don't deserve to be personally shat on.

It's a public forum about pinball. Everyone gets trashed on. It's da way things woyks.

I was defending Lawler last week and stating my displeasure about GnR this week. Next week I'll defend dialed in again.

This should be a designer's paradise. They get a free litmus test from the pinball public. Who cares if there are morons who trash games and designers for no good reason?

As for the multiball forever in GnR, how can we shut up about it? The game is brand new, crazy expensive, and will mostly go to homes. I think wondering and pondering about playing Wack-a-wacka-ball instead of what we're used to is a valid concern that I continually want to hear about. If it hurts the designers' feelings, maybe a public forum isn't the best place for them to hang out.

#2892 49 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

It's a public forum about pinball. Everyone gets trashed on. It's da way things woyks.
I was defending Lawler last week and stating my displeasure about GnR this week. Next week I'll defend dialed in again.
This should be a designer's paradise. They get a free litmus test from the pinball public. Who cares if there are morons who trash games and designers for no good reason?
As for the multiball forever in GnR, how can we shut up about it? The game is brand new, crazy expensive, and will mostly go to homes. I think wondering and pondering playing Wack-a-ball instead of what we're used to is a valid concern that I continually want to hear about. If it hurts the designers' feelings, maybe a public forum isn't the best place for them to hang out.

If you aren't buying one, why do you care? We get it, multiball... DONT BUY IT

#2893 49 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

It's a public forum about pinball. Everyone gets trashed on. It's da way things woyks.
I was defending Lawler last week and stating my displeasure about GnR this week. Next week I'll defend dialed in again.
This should be a designer's paradise. They get a free litmus test from the pinball public. Who cares if there are morons who trash games and designers for no good reason?
As for the multiball forever in GnR, how can we shut up about it? The game is brand new, crazy expensive, and will mostly go to homes. I think wondering and pondering about playing Wack-a-wacka-ball instead of what we're used to is a valid concern that I continually want to hear about. If it hurts the designers' feelings, maybe a public forum isn't the best place for them to hang out.

I can’t say you’re wrong. Opinions drive the site. Look at the opinions of $60 PS4 games. There are millions of posts on them. Pins are $6000-$13,000 toys.

#2894 49 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

It's a public forum about pinball. Everyone gets trashed on. It's da way things woyks.
I was defending Lawler last week and stating my displeasure about GnR this week. Next week I'll defend dialed in again.
This should be a designer's paradise. They get a free litmus test from the pinball public. Who cares if there are morons who trash games and designers for no good reason?
As for the multiball forever in GnR, how can we shut up about it? The game is brand new, crazy expensive, and will mostly go to homes. I think wondering and pondering about playing Wack-a-wacka-ball instead of what we're used to is a valid concern that I continually want to hear about. If it hurts the designers' feelings, maybe a public forum isn't the best place for them to hang out.

Yanno, if you keep up with this attitude, you're only giving Aurich another opportunity to post about how he's worked on a game before, and saved the Hobbit playfield. (Thanks for that, by the way! Definitely an improvement! And I DO mean that.)

I like how the argument seems to be criticism draws off creators, but in reality it seems more that maybe non tongue up butt views push creators off of here. Who cares if Joe Schmoe says they blow? I'm sure if they made it as far as they have, they've endured much criticism along the way, justified or not.

Alternative view. Maybe, just maybe they're just busy, creating?

Case in point, Eric said on the Super Awesome cast, he's pretty busy, realizes people have opinions, and that's cool. I'm glad the guy is busy with his family, career, etc. He, and George Gomez probably don't need to come on here for career advice or praise. Good for them all!

Being on here so much, I'm beginning to think I need another hobby, to take me away from sadly obsessing about THIS hobby.

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#2895 49 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

It's a public forum about pinball. Everyone gets trashed on. It's da way things woyks.
I was defending Lawler last week and stating my displeasure about GnR this week. Next week I'll defend dialed in again.
This should be a designer's paradise. They get a free litmus test from the pinball public. Who cares if there are morons who trash games and designers for no good reason?
As for the multiball forever in GnR, how can we shut up about it? The game is brand new, crazy expensive, and will mostly go to homes. I think wondering and pondering about playing Wack-a-wacka-ball instead of what we're used to is a valid concern that I continually want to hear about. If it hurts the designers' feelings, maybe a public forum isn't the best place for them to hang out.

I've always said the same thing, it's a pinball forum...if we can't discuss things here then where can we? I draw the line in owner's thread...because I figure they already own the game and don't need to hear opinions from the non-owners or non-fans. But in this instance, it's a general topic, praise and criticism should go hand in hand. Some of these criticisms have actually helped improve games and materials. So it's not all for naught.

#2896 49 days ago

Glad Kaneda got to check out the game. Definitely seems to have lived up to his expectations!

#2897 49 days ago

I’m wondering if the SE may play better. I mean several games BKSOR, GoT, AS probably just as good or better as pro build.

For the life of me the upper PF doesn’t look that great compared to something like WoZ or tspp.

I understand the ball lock is cool looking but several layers of complexity to the LE that the SE does by just shooting ramps. I like ramps.

#2898 49 days ago
Quoted from rai:

I’m wondering if the SE may play better. I mean several games BKSOR, GoT, AS probably just as good or better as pro build.
For the life of me the upper PF doesn’t look that great compared to something like WoZ or tspp.
I understand the ball lock is cool looking but several layers of complexity to the LE that the SE does by just shooting ramps. I like ramps.

I would add GB to that list, I much prefer the Pro.

#2899 49 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Glad Kaneda got to check out the game. Definitely seems to have lived up to his expectations!

Dont think he would admit it on this one if it didnt! Its his grail theme and they did a great job so Im glad hes loving it. I do think he will have blinders on with this one and not hear any criticism, I messaged him about it. Many of us are like that with our Grail themes(I LOVE stern star wars). That being said I have a GnR LE on order and cant wait to play. I cant get the music out of my head because Ive watched too many streams....

#2900 49 days ago
Quoted from mbrave77:

Dont think he would admit it on this one if it didnt! Its his grail theme and they did a great job so Im glad hes loving it. I do think he will have blinders on with this one and not hear any criticism, I messaged him about it. Many of us are like that with our Grail themes(I LOVE stern star wars). That being said I have a GnR LE on order and cant wait to play. I cant get the music out of my head because Ive watched too many streams....

Besides the guy doesn't know pinball enough to know what's good or what's great. Fan layout!

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