As someone who has played both I agree and Avengers is a much better shooter however GnR excels in other areas and aspects of the game. I don't rotate games in my collection that often so gameplay is one of the most important aspects for me. So I'll continue to enjoy playing GnR on location and am really looking forward to Toy Story now because I enjoy Pat's layouts and hope JJP puts as much effort into upcoming titles as they did GnR.

Obviously not on purpose, but funny Slash is wearing a "Tragic Girl" shirt. Little jab at Magic Girl pin. I feel like this release has had tiny jabs at Deeproot, but that's just me making something out of nothing.

I didn't see much of the actual gameplay but with what I saw there is only one thing I'm concerned about:

That you have to "earn" to start a song. At least for location play there should be an option that people can directly choose a song (and get "wow"ed and not fail qualifying for a song and end the game without seeing anything).

Ha...so true...

I love the look of GNR and only have one observation. The middle of the playfield where the map of the world is seems like wasted space. I think the map could have been integrated into a topper and JJP should have put a couple MM Troll-like pop up toys to bash.

Two Slash edition Marshall Amps pop up! Insane! Loud feedback or huge thump every time you hit them.

YES! That would be killer.

Pretty sure Keith said on the Buffalo stream that the way the rules and code are currently, it’s almost a given every game will start a song. So if your dropping money on location you’ll get the experience.

For the reasons above, and the VHS quality video from the 80's would look hideous on the 27" HD screen mixed with the HD graphics. (Where is Buckethead and Bumblefoot!?!)

Licensing issues, I am sure.

After watching the stream I have to say that the callouts are lame as hell and the Appetite Album Challenge Animations were just plain awful.

Also, the 'custom music' appears to be nothing more than some lame fills that don't necessarily fit the accompanying songs well.

Video assets are nice, but man...these are not the Guns and Roses I am expecting to see.

Light show was amazing. I think the notion of concert choreography is a bit overblown...but that may be due to the nature of streaming rather than actual game effects. The lit siderails are cool, I guess.

Someone else mentioned the Keybord sound that is made every time a ball rolls over the graphics...damn, that is annoying as hell.

All told, if they can get the Multiballs under control and if that upper PF actually has anything to do on it, looks to be a fun game and a hit for the Rabid GNR fans.

Yup, each ball spots a band member to advance toward qualifying to start your first song.

Where are all the pinsiders that crap on PinStadiums now? These new JJP light bars are pinstadiums on steroids. They are cool but also remind me of all the small shops in Chinatown that have the excessive LED lighting around their windows.

Was in on an LE before the stream.....STILL IN!

Seemed like factory setting were : 1 Spotted, 2 Spotted on Ball 2, and 3 spotted on Ball 3...guaranteeing one song per play.

One of the bigger issues for me in my age. I relate to the 80 GR and that’s what I was expecting..... I can get buy that

Another is the fact that there are ZERO mechanical toys. That’s fkd up.

Folks complain about IMDN Prem but at least it has two.

I think it’s a very nice game but it’s not right for my collection at this moment at the 10k price point. My MMR is staying put

The worldwide map.

I thought it would be like Roadshow

Band travels to different cities around the world and a mini concert mode could be played with goal of completing the tour?

Pretty sure I heard them say on the stream that there were some rules related to the travel both at a band member level and a patch level, but I couldn’t really tell when the outer loops were hit where they were traveling to.

Ok great. I had to turn sound down due to wife complaining

I think anyone reasonable can look at this game and make a simple calculation: (% of time spent in multiball) / (% of time playing)

Other reasonable measures are how hard it is to get into multiball, how many multiballs are there, how long is the default ball saver, how easy is it to add a ball, etc

Without having made the spreadsheet myself, I subjectively feel this game is incredibly high in these parameters, possibly higher than literally any game I can think of. I imagine that’s the feeling many else have.

I’m not trying to be a hater. Most of us are not. As I have genuinely serious interest in purchasing this game, I hope that (a) these things can be changed in settings and (b) the ruleset is not so dependent on the default settings such that changing them would actually make the game less fun.

PS. I own and love POTC. It is indeed in the high range of these parameters, but nowhere close to what seems to be going on in GNR.

I'm also wondering the same thing. Love a music based game and the light show is out of this world, shots look fun, but worry about the multiballs. I have a Pirates and it's not my favorite game by far because of the excessive multiballs.

Well, since I couldn't get my hands on the CE (even though I was on TWO distributor lists just in case) I can now just wait until I play it. No hurry, think the artwork on the LE is terrible anyway.

Typically a game has lots of flow, or lots of toys/mechs that kill flow or somewhere in between. From those that have played it, where does this one fall? Just based on watching streams, it doesn't seem to have much of either, am I seeing it wrong?

I feel like everyone that hasn't played it is seeing it wrong. It is all personal preference, but I personally had fun playing the game.

It didn't feel too start stop, and the shots felt great. I would urge everyone try this game out before you make any decisions. You really have to see and hear it in person to get a good feel for everything that is going on with it.

I'm still on the fence about this pin. I prefer pins that have a majority of its ruleset focused on objective based modes that push an events forward from a theme. An example of these objective based modes are the main modes in LOTR, Hobbit, Ghostbusters, and Star Wars. Those modes progress an event from the themes source material. What I'm seeing with GNR is a lot of rather generic points and jackpot based modes. The main 21 song modes have some amazing light shows but beyond that what makes them play differently? This is a similar complaint I had with Pirates. When I think about it though there is more to do in the GNR main modes versus the chapter modes in Pirates.

It's also nice to have separate set piece modes such as "Destroy the Death Star", "Destroy the Ring", "Wonka's Office", and the Arkenstone modes in Hobbit. Those modes cannot be stacked with any other mode, and have multiple stages with great mode choreography. Often those modes represent a mini wizard mode in a pin. So far I'm not seeing anything like that in GNR.

Gotcha, that makes sense. People kept saying GNR "opened up the vault" and the designers "had total access to the assets" and I didn't see that in the design. It makes sense that the band would want it focused on who they are now, but I feel like most fans would like it focused on that crazy ass band in the 80s.

I'm someone that's not a fan of PinStadiums, I feel they work sometimes, but can kinda blow out the playfield art and are too much in the ways a lot of people use them. The original designers planned for regular lighting. This is totally different, the designers planned for this lighting. And if there is one time you should totally have stadium lighting, it's when you are trying to create the feeling of a stadium rock show in the pin.

Put them side by side, you can tell in just the streams that they are nothing alike in the way they light the pf.

Personally, I think some kind of PinStadium can help any machine, particularly if played in a dark room. But if I get a GnR at some point I don't think I'd consider it. It's big toy is essentially the lights and lightshow and I wouldn't want to mess with that.

I think the person above was saying the light bar that's in GNR2 is essentially the same as Pinstadiums. I'm not even sure you could put them in with this design, but you certainly wouldn't need to.

Yes you are correct. One was made to light up dark parts of a playfield, one was made to light up the dark parts of players' eyeballs.

200-2.gif

Pin Stadium versus JJP Hot Rails are like comparing a 3rd party non functional hood scoop on a muscle car versus a functioning hood scoop from the factory.

LMAO

I do not understand this cargument.

If you watch the streams and read all of the feedback from folks who have played the game, there are a couple common themes which have little to do with actual pinball, great light show, 21 songs and they dig the art/assets.

I have yet to hear anybody say a particular shot just feels great and satisfying, could this be due to it not having much flow and waaaay too much multiball to even get a feel for the gameplay?

Just a couple casual observations I made.

It’s a visually stunning game BUT how does it shoot, for real no hype?

One isn't integrated with the vehicle (slapped on) while the other from the factory is. Pin Stadiums cannot be coded to integrate with game modes while Hot Rails can be.

Also great gif above lol!

Having 80s concert footage and music videos wouldn't look horrible, it would be amazing. They have plenty of high quality remastered footage of that stuff. Put a sweet border around it like Beatles or something. Having a time capsule in your home to relive an epic 80s GnR concert would be sweet. Instead we get bloated Axl.

The hot rails are really cool. It is obvious that they were inspired by Pinstadiums though. Patent pending no doubt (happened to even mention it in the SDTM video).

Working with Slash might have had some drawback along with the positives. It had be hard to disagree with GNR assets when your co-game designer is in the flipping band...

Plus DE got sued for having a cartoon likeness of a band member on it back in the day, much less video. I wouldn't think those 80's videos are as legally airtight as the new stuff. What I thought they might do is emphasize the closeups of Axl less, like show more of those wide sweeps and closeups of pretty much anyone else. The little hottie-mc-hot-pants teaser didn't show much Axl, thought the game would do the same. But hell, he's the lead singer so what're you gonna do?

I shouldn't talk too much though, wasn't looking forward to seeing my big face up there either.

For me it felt like a fantastic shooting pinball machine.

This.

After thinking about it more I've realized that basically every "downside" to the way the game is designed revolves around "let the player hear the songs".

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you're a GNR fan. From the straight up the middle scoop, to the multiballs and add-a-balls and generous ball saver everything about this game is in service of the music. And I think in same ways gameplay takes a backseat to that, and that's what people are responding to.

That's not to imply there's no depth or gameplay for more experienced players, I think you just have to frame your mindset around that thinking. If it sounds cool to you this is probably a great game. If you're going to constantly butt up against that style maybe it's not for you.

If I was on the trend of growing my collection still instead of downsizing to minimal pins, if I was still open to spending this kind of cash on a game, if I was hosting parties and wanting to share my games, I think I could accept that mindset and own this one.

I feel like you're riiiiight in the middle of those two sides. You're a music guy, this totally feels like a pin for you. You know it would look great with your games. Do you still have your DE GNR? Would you replace it or set them side by side?

But on the other hand you're a player who really respects a playfield, something I like about you. And I can see your hesitation.

Definitely nothing wrong with playing it first. I can't see how you'd ever regret the decision to wait and try it.

Think you need 7 band members to qualify the song and on second ball they spot you one and third ball they spot you 2 so already 3 free qualifiers by the third ball you should be qualified because every shot you hit is probably also qualifying someone.

I think JJP is aiming this game at locations versus home owners, thus the casual and epileptic gameplay, the agressive price of the SE right in between Stern 2 tiers.

The game looks fantastic, I will surely throw a pile of coins in when it comes to a location nearby it's just not a game I can see myself living with.

It’s almost like (for me) you see a pretty girl but she has one major flaw. Everything else is great but I’ll still be focusing on the major flaw all the time almost to the exclusion of all the good aspects.

For me the more that I think about it and watch and see how much MB is like the major flaw.

I suppose they designed for casual players who might’ve not be used to pinball but see this massive lights and sound and get to play any have the thrill of MB action.

But if I’m buying and will play a thousand times maybe I don’t want to have played 10 thousand MB modes.

Coma ball save (sigh) ok it’s there but I already have woz and I don’t need the same exact mode transferred to other game. Now if I didn’t have WOz great but I do so it’s starting to be like let’s put this mode in another game. I understand why they do it it’s a cool feature and not everyone has played woz but for me I don’t feel like great let’s have this out lane game in more pins. It was unique on woz on GnR it’s redundant.

Again imo it looks like a game built for noobs and casual players first and foremost.

That’s ok because maybe the market is larger for casual players and gets people in the door especially for a GnR rabid fan who might not be a pinhead.

The key difference here is even the CE will cost you less during your lifetime.

Wow!, LE's are now sold out, crazy.

Kk, just kidding. Bad joke I guess.

Not here, still have dealers I asked for CE's trying to sell me LE's days later.

no

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Games/Guns-N-Roses/Guns-N-Roses-Limited-Edition-Pinball-Machine.html

LE's are sold out? Aren't they are making 5000 of them.