(Topic ID: 278459)

Guns N' Roses...It's here!


By pin2d

3 months ago



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#2251 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Why not? Other games can be 3 ball and this could stay timed. As long as the game and song is the same for everyone. (Which isn't too different from a game like ACDC where everyone chooses Hells Bells anyway)

That’s what I meant. If you’re going to make one game timed, they all need to be.

Hells bells was nerfed years ago. Get with the program! Haha

Who’s going to be the time keeper for all the games at Pinburgh?

#2252 3 months ago
Quoted from SimonBaird:

The game is so much easier to follow when there is one or two balls in song mode. Also despite only playing the song in mostly single ball (couple of add a balls) or max two balls the end score for the song was still really high. The game went from looking like a continuous fail non-stop with unlimited balls entering the playfield, to a more focused aim for the shots mode progression.

if they arent in there already, the game could benefit from these two user adjustable software settings:

1] max balls allowed into gibson lock [0-6]
2] max add-a-balls allowed per song [0-default number of 'stages']

the default for 1] is currently 6, and starts the song automatically from the gibson lock with a 6 ball multi when you lock the 6th ball in the headstock. set to say 3, the 3rd ball lock auto starts the song with just a 3 ball multi. selecting 0 would start the song in single ball play via shooting the empty lock or the scoop.

the default for 2] is the number of song 'stages', which i assume varies depending on the length of a given song. user could set at 0 [no add-a-balls at all], 1 at stage one, 2 one at each stages 1 and 2... up to max stages.

#2253 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

That’s what I meant. If you’re going to make one game timed, they all need to be.

But why? Just cause?

Some games score and work different. If I pick a 3 ball game, or a timed game, or a luck box 5 ball EM, that's my prerogative (as the game chooser). They're all different, but the competitors are still on the same playing field because they're all playing the same game.

#2254 3 months ago

My God...to be a pinball designer

#2255 3 months ago
Quoted from mbrave77:

I wonder if each time you play a song(say November rain) its the same exact footage you see each time? Or do they have 3-4 different november rain concerts they show or animation they show.

GNR provided 18 3-hour shows with each having the same song set. So they have at least 18 Nov Rains x 11 min to choose. Surely they picked from multiple shows.

#2256 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

But why? Just cause?

Nope. In my experience players like the format to be the same the whole time (Matchplay, golf, bowling, strikes, flip frenzy, timed, etc)

They don’t like mixing and matching.

Also hard to police a timed game that doesn’t have a setting for it. Ripe for cheating.

Easier to just not use games that aren’t naturally shorter playing games.

Always fun to sprinkle in the random games into a tournament though. I do it all the time within reason.

#2257 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Nope. In my experience players like the format to be the same the whole time (Matchplay, golf, bowling, strikes, flip frenzy, timed, etc)
They don’t like mixing and matching.
Also hard to police a timed game that doesn’t have a setting for it. Ripe for cheating.
Easier to just not use games that aren’t naturally shorter playing games.
Always fun to sprinkle in the random games into a tournament though. I do it all the time within reason.

Well yeah, I get keep the format the same. I'm not saying switch from a match play to a strike midway.

The 3 ball vs 5 ball vs timed is just an arbitrary distinction on a particular game, not a different tournament format. It's not like Safecracker is banned from tournament play

Whatever though. Competitive players are too serious and not fun.

#2258 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

they have at least 18 Nov Rains x 11 min to choose

Shoot me now.

#2259 3 months ago

They really need to dial back the multiball in the code, or have ways to adjust in the settings. It definitely seems the game was designed around that though with the ball lock.

I do wish it had one cool mechanical toy.

Other than that the game looks like a blast.
I like the orbit from the upper flipper and the main orbits flowed nicely. Ramps look good and the ball doesn't stay long in the upper playfields.

I hope they use the long shot from the left flipper to the axl lane (the extra ball shot) a lot in the code. I like challenging shots like that. Keith set that kind of shot up perfectly in JP2.

Fix the forever being in multiball, and this will be a really fun game I think.

#2260 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Whatever though. Competitive players are too serious and not fun.

Agree to disagree. I wouldn’t have played in tournaments and run them for as long as I have if this statement were true.

I’m always willing to try new stuff at tournaments. If settings in games allow me to incorporate timed games, bring it on.

#2261 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I’m always willing to try new stuff at tournaments. If settings in games allow me to incorporate timed games, bring it on.

That's all I'm saying. It's a different way to compete, and everyone is competing the same. So I don't see why it would be an issue for competitive players. (Other than high level players know they could play a lot longer than an intermediate level player on traditional 3 ball format. But it's part of the strategy like picking a luck box EM)

#2262 3 months ago

https://www.marshallheadphones.com/us/en/acton-ii-bluetooth.html

Bluetooth speaker ! This could be the ultimate topper for the LE buyers.

49E80DDC-9C91-43E1-B453-856D1F40360B (resized).png
#2263 3 months ago
Quoted from guitarded:

The Multiballs.
Balls just falling out forever...it's like watching puppies being born.

You’re so right. Reason there is nothing but multiballs is because there is not much else in the game. Programmers didn’t have much else for players to do, except go from multiball to multiball. Can see tons of people cancelling CE orders and waiting to play later on location. HUO, multiballs become monotonous big time. Problem with any band no matter how good the music, listening burnout happens and you don’t want to hear the songs for a good long while later. That’s what makes games that focus on modes and mech interaction always have us pushing the button for one more magical kinetic play.

#2264 3 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

Not surprised to hear that folks are resounding this way about mb. Its the worst thing from my experience playing as well. Hopefully jjp cuts it down

It seems pretty baked into the fundamental rules of the game, everything is designed around it. Keefer is one of the programmer gods of the hobby, I'm sure he was very intentional about it. He's also a smart dude who could probably change it up, I'm just saying, don't count on it.

Quoted from iceman44:

I'm still VERY excited for the GNR CE coming my way because of the "experience", band support, assets and basically getting to play a GNR concert whenever i want to.

That seems like the right attitude. I'm still very impressed by the whole thing. I'm sure it's tons of fun.

Look, I can't lie, a lot of Keefer's games are brilliant but not for me. Too long. This might just be another one, just maybe for slightly different reasons. If you're a fan, or have a large collection, and you have the money? Why not. I'd like to play one when I get the chance.

But as much as JJP is really setting a high bar here I'd still rather flip a Keith Elwin game if I was looking for a new pin. Gameplay has to be the first consideration for me. These things are too damn expensive to not fully enjoy for a long while before I hit burnout. Everything else about GNR really top notch though.

And hey, maybe I'll play one and change my mind, I'm only going off of the endless multiball videos.

#2265 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No offense intended but it was very "low energy".

the stream would certainly have had a different energy level if kaneda had done it.

#2266 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

So I don't see why it would be an issue for competitive players.

Will the timer pause for stuck balls? What if there is a minor malfunction and compensation needs to be awarded to the affected player? Can you recreate game state and start them back with the timer they had before the minor malfunction?

These would be my questions about it as a player and a TD. If GNR could do that, that would be a huge game changer.

Oh and I have run all timed formats with great success. See the Running of the Gauntlet at Pincinnati. That’s fun to play and watch actually.

#2267 3 months ago
Quoted from mslow:

https://www.marshallheadphones.com/us/en/acton-ii-bluetooth.html
Bluetooth speaker ! This could be the ultimate topper for the LE buyers. [quoted image]

Now that is a a great idea!!

#2270 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Will the timer pause for stuck balls? What if there is a minor malfunction and compensation needs to be awarded to the affected player? Can you recreate game state and start them back with the timer they had before the minor malfunction?
These would be my questions about it as a player and a TD.

Those are great concerns, and again...part of why I don't like how serious competitive pinball players can be lol. But you're right it is extra work if the software doesn't know how to compensate. (I'd just let them keep their score as is or forfeit it and do another full song run)

It's not like TDs can exactly recreate game states already. But it is easier to give out a comp ball

#2271 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

You’re so right. Reason there is nothing but multiballs is because there is not much else in the game. Programmers didn’t have much else for players to do, except go from multiball to multiball. Can see tons of people cancelling CE orders and waiting to play later on location. HUO, multiballs become monotonous big time. Problem with any band no matter how good the music, listening burnout happens and you don’t want to hear the songs for a good long while later. That’s what makes games that focus on modes and mech interaction always have us pushing the button for one more magical kinetic play.

Thats what many people said about POTC.....my guess is they will take initial feedback and adjust accordingly....

#2272 3 months ago

Sigh...never change, Pinside.

#2273 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

You’re so right. Reason there is nothing but multiballs is because there is not much else in the game. Programmers didn’t have much else for players to do, except go from multiball to multiball. Can see tons of people cancelling CE orders and waiting to play later on location. HUO, multiballs become monotonous big time. Problem with any band no matter how good the music, listening burnout happens and you don’t want to hear the songs for a good long while later. That’s what makes games that focus on modes and mech interaction always have us pushing the button for one more magical kinetic play.

I'd have to agree with this sentiment. Some people will cancel their CE orders because of the way it plays and of course because they can't flip it now which is why many people wanted one in the first place.

Not me though. I'm good with it. Still gonna be great to have and play as a fun and unique experience.

#2274 3 months ago

I went to the arcade in Sharon,PA a couple times and got to play GnR a decent amount. My initial impression is that overall, it's a very solid game. At first, the playfield felt a bit weird and cluttered, but it has gotten better the more I learn the shots. The lighting and sound quality is superb except for the random sound effects and off tune guitar screeching that actually started to hurt my ears. The flippers could use a slight bump in power. It's certainly a multiball heavy game. The only thing I really hated was the left inlanes/outlane was constantly "Borg bouncing" the balls to the drain. Thankfully, that is somewhat adjustable, unlike TMNT.

#2275 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Thats what many people said about POTC.....my guess is they will take initial feedback and adjust accordingly....

Imo, POTC is a superior game in every way, because of so many modes and mechs working all over the playfield. Lots more to shoot at. That cannon shot still is exciting!

#2276 3 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

But as much as JJP is really setting a high bar here I'd still rather flip a Keith Elwin game if I was looking for a new pin.

Can't argue with that either. I love JP, one of the best games ever. Just set up AIQLE, another Elwin winner and great gameplay.

Plus a guy like Rick Neagle doesn't get enough credit for being on code for Elwin's games.

#2277 3 months ago

I like the nod to Apollo 12 with all the multiballs all the time! All kidding aside, I think that will go over well with casual players.

#2278 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Can't argue with that either. I love JP, one of the best games ever. Just set up AIQLE, another Elwin winner and great gameplay.
Plus a guy like Rick Neagle doesn't get enough credit for being on code for Elwin's games.

Elwin being more than a rock pin designer, knows as a player first and foremost what all of us are really looking for in play mechanics. IMDN is still hard to beat in the music genre. I’ll give credit to GNR on light shows however. If lights are your thing GNR is the one to get.

#2279 3 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

if they arent in there already, the game could benefit from these two user adjustable software settings:
1] max balls allowed into gibson lock [0-6]
2] max add-a-balls allowed per song [0-default number of 'stages']
the default for 1] is currently 6, and starts the song automatically from the gibson lock with a 6 ball multi when you lock the 6th ball in the headstock. set to say 3, the 3rd ball lock auto starts the song with just a 3 ball multi. selecting 0 would start the song in single ball play via shooting the empty lock or the scoop.
the default for 2] is the number of song 'stages', which i assume varies depending on the length of a given song. user could set at 0 [no add-a-balls at all], 1 at stage one, 2 one at each stages 1 and 2... up to max stages.

In my opinion, you've hit the nail on the head.
I'm a huge fan of multiball when it's 2/3/4 balls at once. Even 4 and I'm probably flailing. I thought ACDC nailed it, with 2/3 for the most part.
If they added options like this, where I could limit the song modes to 3 ball multiballs, with like only 1 add-a-ball per song, then get the game playing fast by setting the playfield to a nice steep angle, I think that the whole package would make it a really fun experience.
Would love to have seen some kind of gimmicky toy to aim for, or that the ramps were built for combos, but I think that I could get lost in the music and Guitar-Hero experience that's been created. I love me some music pins. They're just so much fun to rock out to while you're playing. With a collection of over 21 songs, I counted about half of them that I really like. The others? Not so much but that's still about 10-11 songs that I really enjoyed at some point in time. That's pretty impressive.

REALLY hoping that Keith can add in some options to limit the overkill multiball experience. Right now I think it would determine whether or not I buy one.
Watching people play this game with endless 6-ball multiball with ball-save, then add-a-ball made my wrists hurt. Too much of a good thing.

My only other concern is the light show. First off, unbelievable GI lighting, really helping to show off that gorgeous playfield. But the lighting on the side seems like maybe it's being over-used? Very cool watching it imitate lightning effects for Nov Rain, but seemed like it's always strobing.
Again, maybe less is better?
Not sure if there could be an option for "Small/Medium/Large" options as to lighting effects?

#2280 3 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

the stream would certainly have had a different energy level if kaneda had done it.

Ego overshadowing the game and gameplay? Check!

-12
#2281 3 months ago

Let's shake the magic 8 ball and see what minor issue Pinside haters will hyperfocus on this time to shit on a pin!

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#2282 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Let's shake the magic 8 ball and see what minor issue Pinside haters will hyperfocus on this time to shit on a pin![quoted image]

What part of constructive discussion on a $12,500.00 purchase is difficult for your magic 8 ball to understand? Lol. How is that hate???

#2283 3 months ago

Semi off topic but great movie " Step Brothers" thought the thread could use a laugh. Sweet Child of Mine remix. Enjoy!

#2284 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

What part of constructive discussion on a $12,500.00 purchase is difficult for your magic 8 ball to understand? How is that hate???

It's not constructive, it's destructive. The shift from excitement to shitting on a game is reliable as the tides on Pinside, and it's just disheartening to see.

Have you even played it? Maybe the multiballs are fun! They sure were on POTC.

#2285 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

It's not constructive, it's destructive. The shift from excitement to shitting on a game is reliable as the tides on Pinside, and it's just disheartening to see.
Have you even played it? Maybe the multiballs are fun! They sure were on POTC.

Don’t be disheartened my friend. This forum is all about discussing positives and negatives of every game made. Since none of us are the manufacturer of any of these games, no reason to be upset. And no, there is a reason most games are not Multiball heavy. MBs come into play for the most part as a reward for completing certain tasks. Over doing it, always ends in chaotic monotonous game play and objectives become lost. Some are fun, but many years of pinball history have shown us, the best games don’t rely on heavy MBs to be fun.

POTC is a completely different game and as I already stated, superior in every way (imo) to GNR. JJP BOM appears to have been a great deal better on POTC and therefore it was loaded with fun interesting interactive mechs and modes.

#2286 3 months ago

So spoiled to live in the era of pinball yet so many haters. I love multiball and for a home use only pin great! I do not want something to damn hard but want something i can have a good long ball time on. So many choices i think this might be the best pin ever made. For the record my Fav 2 pins are Maiden and Metallica. So yeah love the music pins and so glad JJP pulled the trigger i wonder what the next music pin they do will be or i hope a horror theme after knocking this out of the park. Imagine a horror theme you could play as Jason, Freddy, Myers oh wow!

#2287 3 months ago

-

#2288 3 months ago

Isn't every pinball ruleset the same? Don't lose the ball? Maybe a new rule, don't hit anything. How long can you cradle the ball before the flipper coil smokes?

#2289 3 months ago

The older games like WOZ and Hobbit allowed you to play music in headphones and on machine speakers at the same time. This was great because you could set the machine for how loud you wanted through the buttons inside the coin door. With wired headphones you set that how loud you wanted on the outside coin door knob. Played together they made a bone knocking impression.

I noticed by potc they switched back to a system that played one or the other way. So with Bluetooth will it be possible to play both methods at the same time??? If so that is pretty groundbreaking, if not shame on JJP.

I strongly like their pricing model. Nice spread of numbers and real value added. Also like the # of CEs announced. However, the number of LEs should be limited to 2500 games before they announce another LE version for 2500 games and a higher price tag. Could JJP introduce a Super Duper Limited Edition (SDLE) for $20k and limited to 50 Games? Maybe, and it would surpass BM66SLE for more $$$. Until now I thought the CE model was kind of silly, but I like what’s been added to GNRCE. Maybe the SDLE should include transport, lodging plus 2 backstage passes to any GNR concert in the world. Better raise the price to $25k each. Maybe they could have Duff or Slash or Axl record your name, ala Adam West style. You could hear Axl say Welcome to the Jungle <insert name> mother f*@ker!

#2290 3 months ago

Looks fun to me, the light show is fn awesome. Price is crazy, but pinball prices have been going up and up, can't do much about that.

#2291 3 months ago

I was on the fence bigtime with the CE because I like Led Zeppelin more as a band and still waiting for it and because at initial glance I was disappointed with not seeing a moving toy jump out at me.. but then they sold out of the CE's, so at the slightly lower price point and still getting the upper playfield, I started to appreciate the design aspect of it as a whole with the guitars (great for rock music) and licensed Gibson & Fender's, very creative with the 4 bass strings being a 3 rail ramp and the ball locking in the tuners, sticks as a ramp, picks as spinners, just had to give it respect for the art creativity and coupled with the LE art being my favorite of the 3 I'm in for an LE now. I'm not a big lights guy but the light show does looks to be something that's never been done before to this extreme and looking forward to the immersion factor too. With that said, I'm still playing my Aerosmith LE quite often and that trick shot in the toy box, working elevator and speed is to me what I think of as a 'Fun' pin. It seems I may be appreciating the Sterns for what they are and the JJP's for what they are too instead of initially bashing them for what they weren't. Either way, I think it's true, we are certainly in the Pinball glory days at the moment with so many options.. Enjoy it!

#2292 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Don’t be disheartened my friend. This forum is all about discussing positives and negatives of every game made. Since none of us are the manufacturer of any of these games, no reason to be upset. And no, there is a reason most games are not Multiball heavy. MBs come into play for the most part as a reward for completing certain tasks. Over doing it, always ends in chaotic monotonous game play and objectives become lost. Some are fun, but many years of pinball history have shown us, the best games don’t rely on heavy MBs to be fun.
POTC is a completely different game and as I already stated, superior in every way to GNR. JJP BOM appears to have been a great deal better on POTC and therefore it was loaded with fun interesting interactive mechs and modes.

Superior in every way is a serious stretch and this is coming from a POTC LE owner....how in the world can u access that without even playing the game?...its a ridiculous comment.

#2293 3 months ago

Looking forward to playing this soon!

#2294 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Superior in every way is a serious stretch and this is coming from a POTC LE owner....how in the world can u access that without even playing the game?...its a ridiculous comment.

Not ridiculous at all, after watching lots of GNR gameplay streams. Having played a lot of POTC and lots of pinball in general, it is easy to get a feel for a game prior to playing, hence the reason so many companies rely on streaming for people to assess whether to order a game or not. Of course opinions on whether POTC is superior or not is up to the individual and if you don’t think it is, I can respect that. (I would hope you’re not intending to disrespect my opinion on POTC, by your “ridiculous comment” wording.)

30
#2295 3 months ago

I played GnR alot today, with some seasoned pinball people, all of us agreed, this game is fantastic. Guns and Roses opened the vault door to let Eric and JJP make a game without restrictions and you feel it, see it and hear it. Eric has quarters in his blood and has once again given us a fun, fast, smooth and challenging layout that keeps you on your toes. The video clips are great and sink with the songs. The animation is cool and there are alot of small surprises that popped up, even after about 50 games we kept seeing new things up on the screen. The high score backstage pass picture is the best use of the JJP camera to date. Audio and call outs are top notch, I am a casual GnR fan, and really like how the soundtrack doesn't just play a straight song all the time,something I hate about music pins, it plays some casual riffs that take a moment to realize it is a GnR song, then when you get to a song mode the music is full on and in your face. The light show is spectacular, and changes up alot. Unless you see it in person you really have no idea how special it is, the light up rails, the inserts, and two moving can lights in the back make it an experience like no other. This game has set the bar, and was well worth the wait. The only problem I have with Guns and Roses is that I don't own one. Take a bow JJP. Bravo.

#2296 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

How are the album modes started?

You have to play a cumulative 3 minutes of song time from the album (per album)

#2297 3 months ago

When can we see a SE stream?

#2298 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Not ridiculous at all, after watching lots of GNR gameplay streams. Having played a lot of POTC and lots of pinball in general, it is easy to get a feel for a game prior to playing, hence the reason so many companies rely on streaming for people to assess whether to order a game or not. Of course opinions on whether POTC is superior or not is up to the individual and if you don’t think it is, I can respect that. (I would hope you’re not intending to disrespect my opinion on POTC, by your “ridiculous comment” wording.)

I never said it was or it wasn't superior. I've owned every JJP pin, and what Ive learned is if u don't have one to play all the time (like in your home) its challenging to really understand, and appreciate the game. POTC is a great game (one of best), but I can guarantee u that GNR theme integration, assets, and light shows are far superior to POTC. Now does that make it a great pinball game...no, but GNR seems like a game u have to play first hand before u can truly appreciate the game assets.

10
#2299 3 months ago
Quoted from ltd73:

I played GnR alot today, with some seasoned pinball people, all of us agreed, this game is fantastic. Guns and Roses opened the vault door to let Eric and JJP make a game without restrictions and you feel it, see it and hear it. Eric has quarters in his blood and has once again given us a fun, fast, smooth and challenging layout that keeps you on your toes. The video clips are great and sink with the songs. The animation is cool and there are alot of small surprises that popped up, even after about 50 games we kept seeing new things up on the screen. The high score backstage pass picture is the best use of the JJP camera to date. Audio and call outs are top notch, I am a casual GnR fan, and really like how the soundtrack doesn't just play a straight song all the time,something I hate about music pins, it plays some casual riffs that take a moment to realize it is a GnR song, then when you get to a song mode the music is full on and in your face. The light show is spectacular, and changes up alot. Unless you see it in person you really have no idea how special it is, the light up rails, the inserts, and two moving can lights in the back make it an experience like no other. This game has set the bar, and was well worth the wait. The only problem I have with Guns and Roses is that I don't own one. Take a bow JJP. Bravo.

Hey, are you new in this thread? That sort of positivity is so yesterday. Don't you realise the narrative has changed to negativity and criticism?

#2300 3 months ago
Quoted from mufcmufc:

You have to play a cumulative 3 minutes of song time from the album (per album)

Keefer said that’s adjustable. And knowing JJP, I’m sure there’s plenty of adjustments in this game.

That said, while we all harp on all the multiball play, let me redirect your attention elsewhere - this game did not look to be like a long player. Most the games i saw in multiple streams were far from POTC/Hobbit/Keefer style marathon games. In fact, it looked extremely brutal. Probably why they went with the multiball ruleset, so people could enjoy the music. And the creative ruleset surrounding the songs is amazing. There will be some fine finesse to be made with this game depending on a person’s skill level in the home enivronment...as is with most games.

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