(Topic ID: 278459)

Guns N' Roses...It's here!


By pin2d

5 months ago



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There are 5414 posts in this topic. You are on page 43 of 109.
#2101 4 months ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I agree, they both look like great games.
I think it's natural for people to compare games (content, value, etc.). Especially when a new one comes out.
With a forum this large, you get a bunch of different opinions and different ways of stating them. I expect there are also a few trolls, people with axes to grind and company plants sprinkeled in.
It all generates discussion, which I think is a good thing.

Some “compare” more than others.

I’m looking at you Panzer

It’s all good, part of what makes pinball fun

#2102 4 months ago

Looks fun, but perhaps not right away for me because I am not a huge GnR fan and price points aren't quite for me yet.

Question for those who will run the machine on a route. If I were still running machines, I would have a sign saying "Warning: Bright and flashing lights and noise may cause seizures". Would you or should you add one?

It would be a fair warning to those who are prone to seizures.
It would be liability protection from someone having a seizure and hurting themselves. (Slim liability protection but better than nothing.)
It would be a draw for the thrill seekers.

Looks wonderful, JJP.

#2103 4 months ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

And to add to that, as you progress in the song, the game will add more balls into play. They need a way to take away balls too.

apparently the COMA ball 'save' is a potential multiball as well.

completing C-O-M-A on a stand up target activates the coma save. should the ball then drain via the left outlane it is 'locked'. a new single ball is served for 30 seconds. hitting a requisite number of switches and then two random targets inside of 30 seconds releases the coma ball, resulting in a 2 ball multiball.

12
#2104 4 months ago

The game should make you wait for hours to play it after you put a quarter in.

#2105 4 months ago
Quoted from LapsedGamer:

The game should make you wait for hours to play it after you put a quarter in.

It would have been cool if the Axl figure rose out from the playfield, but the only to Get him to come out was during the game over sequence

#2106 4 months ago

Every once in awhile the game should just end early for no apparent reason

#2107 4 months ago

JJP is #2 in the pinball world, so we SHOULD compare it to #1. I don't get the apples oranges argument. They are slowly moving toward one another's approach toward the market.

Stern pulled up its socks because of jjp. JJP let its socks down to become profitable.

Great time to be alive. Love some, hate some, bash some, troll some.... C'mon, it's an internet forum!

#2108 4 months ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I agree, they both look like great games.
I think it's natural for people to compare games (content, value, etc.). Especially when a new one comes out.
With a forum this large, you get a bunch of different opinions and different ways of stating them. I expect there are also a few trolls, people with axes to grind and company plants sprinkeled in.
It all generates discussion, which I think is a good thing.

Well said.

#2109 4 months ago

Wtf? How is a pin considered limited at 5000 units? Really wanted this game but feel at least the lE should have the topper with sound bar , way more shit on the CE and to low of production, congrats to the guys that bought multiple units to get that top dollar plus 5k ,no pinball is worth what they will be asking for these CE games

#2110 4 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

apparently the COMA ball 'save' is a potential multiball as well.
completing C-O-M-A on a stationary target activates the coma save. should the ball then drain via the left outlane it is 'locked'. a new single ball is served for 30 seconds. hitting a requisite number of switches and then two random targets inside of 30 seconds releases the coma ball, resulting in a 2 ball multiball.

how is the ball "locked" on the LE? In CE I believe it goes into a lock on the left side of the apron right? Where does it go on the LE? Maybe it drains and shoots out another ball for you to play and you get mb if you succeed?

#2111 4 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

how is the ball "locked" on the LE? In CE I believe it goes into a lock on the left side of the apron right? Where does it go on the LE? Maybe it drains and shoots out another ball for you to play and you get mb if you succeed?

Virtually, I imagine

#2112 4 months ago

Just my guess, but I don’t think JJP calls their mid-tier games an LE because they are actually limited. I think at least in part they are called that because they think it allows a direct comparison with Stern LEs. They are both similarly priced after all, and have a ton of stuff thrown in. I think they both target the same collectors, rather than the traditional take that the JJP LE is akin to a Stern Premium. (Yes I know that Stern LEs have a much lower production count)

Meanwhile the JJP CE is akin to the Stern Super LEs.

I’m not even suggesting I find the comparison valid. Just that it might be the intent.

#2113 4 months ago
Quoted from jq-pinner77:

congrats to the guys that bought multiple units to get that top dollar plus 5k ,no pinball is worth what they will be asking for these CE games

Apparently JJP is requesting CE buyer names from all distros to prevent anyone from purchasing more than one CE.

#2114 4 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

how is the ball "locked" on the LE? In CE I believe it goes into a lock on the left side of the apron right? Where does it go on the LE? Maybe it drains and shoots out another ball for you to play and you get mb if you succeed?

I was told ball drains and auto launch int the shooter lane, like NPLH on Woz the ball comes out of the drain and if you succeed they add another ball. On the CE if you succeed the held ball is added to the game (not sure how). \

#2115 4 months ago
Quoted from arzoo:

Apparently JJP is requesting CE buyer names from all distros to prevent anyone from purchasing more than one CE.

I believe that is true.

#2116 4 months ago
Quoted from jq-pinner77:

Wtf? How is a pin considered limited at 5000 units?

Its like watching a science fiction movie and you have to suspend disbelief to enjoy it.
Kinda like how Stern will announce end of production for a game and later bring it back as a vault edition.

#2117 4 months ago
Quoted from jq-pinner77:

Wtf? How is a pin considered limited at 5000 units?

some dealer was telling me to order the LE because they were selling out.

I am not sure but eventually they will sell out and so there is not any full feature game (unless they make something equal but not called LE).

#2118 4 months ago

Really hoping the SE, with the extra speed proves to be popular.

#2119 4 months ago

How many ramp are there? I can see 2 and the left one goes to the upper pf. Correct?

Edit: oups didn’t notice there was also a diverter on this left ramp

#2120 4 months ago
Quoted from rai:

some dealer was telling me to order the LE because they were selling out.
I am not sure but eventually they will sell out and so there is not any full feature game (unless they make something equal but not called LE).

Dealers always say that..and a year later, they still have them in stock. There's 5000, they won't be selling out any time soon. The only thing anyone has to worry about is JJP suddenly stopping making them because they are losing money on them...*cough*

#2121 4 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Dealers always say that..and a year later, they still have them in stock. There's 5000, they won't be selling out any time soon. The only thing anyone has to worry about is JJP suddenly stopping making them because they are losing money on them...*cough*

good point limited to 5000 but could be less, what if they stop after 2000?

Hopefully it's a long production like Woz years of production and it could sell all 5000 LEs.

#2122 4 months ago
Quoted from rai:

some dealer was telling me to order the LE because they were selling out too. I'll believe that when I see it.

Good for JJP if true, but I find that hard to believe (unless the GnR fandom community is going nuts over these).

I think it is about time for JJP to retire the "LE" moniker. Just start calling them the Enthusiast Edition (EE) or something like that.

#2123 4 months ago

GnR2 LE being steamed live...

https://www.twitch.tv/whattheflip

#2124 4 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

JJP is #2 in the pinball world, so we SHOULD compare it to #1. I don't get the apples oranges argument. They are slowly moving toward one another's approach toward the market.

Stern pulled up its socks because of jjp. JJP let its socks down to become profitable.

I was thinking the same thing. If you look at JJP's game progression (WOZ>Hobbit>POTC>Wonka>GNR) it seems like after POTC the games have been getting fewer mechs.

GNR is clearly a winner (barring some fatal gameplaying flaw) and it has some of the best theme integration and cosmetics I've seen but no drops, subways, animated dragon, rocking ship, etc..

Good for profitability and reliability, not so good for cool interactive playfield toys. I will be a little sad if JJP stops using more mechs as a way to separate themselves from the competition.

#2125 4 months ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Good for profitability and reliability,

Reliability maybe but something as simple as a shop job on this game will be a bitch

30
#2126 4 months ago

Thought I would post this here. Impressions:

Before I start, major props to HELCION BREWERY in Pittsburgh. The king of bar pinball - no one is even close. I'm extremely lucky to have them in my backyard. Great guys too (Chris and Chris). Check them out if you're even close to the area. Worth the drive or plane ride!

I'll start with innovation. JJP marketing bone head move of saying innovation was coming and then doing nothing for months. Did they deliver? For me, keeping a level head on what that could be - this pin DEF has something I've never seen before - the concert feel with the lights, the sound, the integration - those light bars seem dumb but think about the opening to your favorite live event - the coordination with the lights and sound. I've never seen that truly integrated into a pinball machine and JJP brought it here. Those light bars on the side really helps deliver it b/c it's not just one constant light but it changes throughout, including strobing. GnR will be the king of this and the benchmark has now been set higher than I've seen before. For me, that qualifies as innovation. Check that box. If you're looking for crazy POTC toys, it's not in there. Spinning record is whatever. This is the new JJP that will give us quality but not the kitchen sink b/c that strategy ended up bankrupting them. Seems like this balanced approach is paying off financially and I'll take it vs. no JJP at all.

Sound, theme integration - amazing. Just watch a video of this game. I will say that to get the full effect this game offers, you need to like GnR. I've been to their concerts before and this is literally like being transformed back to Giants stadium. Some easter eggs in there too btw - I heard CRAZY from Dialed In during the game!

Animations/LCD - this is a real stunner. They literally used graphics from GnRs concerts and you can tell. It's just over the top professional. Potential spoiler for those that are very sensitive.....warning......one of the most impressive LCD effects was not even tied to a song. Out of nowhere i qualified for a mode that basically had the LCD start the UNIX boot up screen of GnR and then it crashed - the effects turn to a "cold war" style China vs USA mode that is so amazing with this 80s touch, Call of Duty Black Ops feel to it. It was SO good. Best part was - it was single ball play! More on that later but JJP absolutely crushed this.

So far, game is off the charts for me. Cabinet art is all subjective. I'm down with the LE no question. Best of the bunch IMO. Really matches that concert feel.

Gameplay - the biggest question going in - how the hell does this game actually play. To summarize, it's tough. Drains on left and right (especially right) are a killer. I'm not very good but this game plays very fast and drains easy off slings. I liked that though. It might explain though why we so much of the next thing I'll speak about (MBs). But the layout - it's great. Upper PFs often times obscure your view but that's not the case here. It's big enough to be fun but not an eye sore. The clear ramps help as well. Bottom line I never felt like I couldn't see enough of the PF due to the upper. Left loop, left ramp, right ramp, that sweet center spinner (love that shot), right shot straight to the pops, right orbit and right shot under the top right flipper. All nice and feel great. Right upper flipper does have two shots (full wrap and half wrap) and that full wrap can be repeated however it's a long distance and needs a lot of speed going in. Don't expect maiden rips all day but it's more doable than JP2 - just need speed. Typically drops into the pops. Magnet in b/w the pops as well to hold the ball and then drop. Upper PF has two shots (left to bass and drain down), right and lock on the guitar. It's fast, and doesn't get in the way. Overall - great but not as creative as you might want.

Code - It's very multiball heavy right now. This is my biggest and really only concern. I hear people saying it's risk vs reward - you don't need to do MB if you don't want to. That's like saying you can drive the car but keep it in 3rd gear all day. It's foolish to say b/c the game isn't meant to be played like that. If you want the highest score you better go for MBs. The risk vs reward is really cashing out and not pushing your luck on songs which is cool but ultimately, I felt like I saw MB way way too much. It's non song MBs that happen and then songs are almost always MB where a ton of balls are released b/c you either locked them earlier or add a ball, which seems to be very easy to achieve. I understand it allows the player to hear more of the song - essentially padding the time but it's just too much. When you guys see more of the game, you'll understand and something that at JJP I just can't believe someone didn't say - wow too many MBs although I also don't understand how they allowed it so much in POTC and with the way Wonka was coded - I can prob understand it more! Code in general though is very solid. A lot to do - pretty clear on what to shoot at, including during songs. Screen in the back does a great job telling you what's going on, informing you via text with what to shoot - and is super clear (looks to be better quality than prior screens). Speaking of the picture in picture on the main LCD goes back and forth b/w concert and effects so you get both. Pretty cool.

btw - call outs right now are a mixed bag. I think they're fine. It's done by the band members and as you can imagine they aren't too excited to do it BUT it's not Stranger Things bad. It's perfectly fine - some are better than others but overall it's not something to overly hype. Solid enough.

Bottom line, it's a special game if you're a GnR fan. It's a good to OK game if you don't care for the band. MB needs to be balanced. JJP knocked it out for me and should get major credit for successfully being the first company to stealth launch a game day 1 with complete code (I know Stern tried it with Stranger Things but well, yeah).

Great job JJP!

#2127 4 months ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I was thinking the same thing. If you look at JJP's game progression (WOZ>Hobbit>POTC>Wonka>GNR) it seems like after POTC the games have been getting fewer mechs.
GNR is clearly a winner (barring some fatal gameplaying flaw) and it has some of the best theme integration and cosmetics I've seen but no drops, subways, animated dragon, rocking ship, etc..
Good for profitability and reliability, not so good for cool interactive playfield toys. I will be a little sad if JJP stops using more mechs as a way to separate themselves from the competition.

JJP hired a CFO shortly after POTC was released, I think that lead to stopping production on POTC as it was too expensive to build, then Wonka was way less packed than the previous games, so I GnR now. There is definitely some down to earth financial constraints in there !

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#2129 4 months ago

I have a dark basement, people are going to think im welding.

#2130 4 months ago

Just curious about this. I noticed that the LE is advertised at 350lbs. Stern premiums are 250lbs. What makes a standard body JJP a full 100lbs heavier? Is it a different type of cabinet wood?

#2131 4 months ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

What makes a standard body JJP a full 100lbs heavier?

Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Is it a different type of cabinet wood?

And big monitor on a wall mount. More boards too I believe.

LTG : )

#2132 4 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

And big monitor on a wall mount. More boards too I believe.
LTG : )

Wall mount and screen maybe adds 20lbs? Just seems like a big difference. Not a bad thing, just wondering.

#2133 4 months ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Wall mount and screen maybe adds 20lbs? Just seems like a big difference. Not a bad thing, just wondering.

And metal frame in front of it the magnets or latches snap on to.

LTG : )

#2134 4 months ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Just curious about this. I noticed that the LE is advertised at 350lbs. Stern premiums are 250lbs. What makes a standard body JJP a full 100lbs heavier? Is it a different type of cabinet wood?

Full wooden backbox on JJP - metal on Stern.

#2135 4 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

perceived value of a JJP pin is significantly higher then Stern games.

Not when it comes gameplay. Sorry Panzer but ur very concerned on this "perceived value" thing. It needs to look like it can justify the cost. I get that but I'm paying for fun factor, for speed and the adrenalin rush that comes from speed. That's how I justify the money spent, all the rest is extra's that in some cases are just covering up the fact that it isn't that much fun to play. I can't judge GnR till I play it so who knows, and that SE model is looking like my kinda table. Time will tell kind sir.

-1
#2136 4 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Well, some people did bring up Stern to put down GNR, and vice versa.
I do think AIQ and GNR both look great. However, in my opinion the perceived value of a JJP pin is significantly higher then Stern games. I never question that Stern games are fun, they are and if money were no object I would buy them all. What I do question is the price Stern charges for their games and what you get for that price. JJP and Stern LE's are about the same price yet JJP is putting more into their games in terms of parts quality, 3D molds, features / toys, and especially software development.
When it comes to perceived value I think JJP can more easily justify a $9500 asking price versus Stern which in my opinion should be selling their LE's for $8k considering what they come with.

Stern LEs are stupid. But a JJP LE is equivalent to a Stern premium, so it’s a $2200 difference.

#2138 4 months ago

Extended WGN stream with Slash

#2139 4 months ago

Buffalo Pinball will be streaming the official JJP gameplay reveal here in 30 minutes:

Buffalo (resized).png
#2140 4 months ago

I hope they set up the game well. Seems like the initial videos for JJP games tend to have the games too slow and floaty.

They have flipper power adjustments for a reason.

#2141 4 months ago

Watched the stream first. Some very nice stuff in the machine and good looking gameplay. But as much as I liked 'You Could be Mine' a lot when it came out, that much of it in one hit was just doing my head in. I'm sure some will just buy it to enjoy how it plays, but I can't do a music theme that I can't handle. I'm probably just too sensitive to it working quite a bit in music these days. It's no doubt by the reaction and sales already JJP will sell a ton of these

#2142 4 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Extended WGN stream with Slash

Slash says “28 songs” from the masters

#2143 4 months ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Not when it comes gameplay. Sorry Panzer but ur very concerned on this "perceived value" thing. It needs to look like it can justify the cost. I get that but I'm paying for fun factor, for speed and the adrenalin rush that comes from speed. That's how I justify the money spent, all the rest is extra's that in some cases are just covering up the fact that it isn't that much fun to play. I can't judge GnR till I play it so who knows, and that SE model is looking like my kinda table. Time will tell kind sir.

That's great, I still think Stern is ripping people off for how little they include in their games and how they are made compared to JJP games. At today's crazy NIB prices speed is overrated if that means less on the playfield to interact with the ball and other mechs. I'm not spending $6k - $9k+ on a pinball machine of all things for two ramps and a couple orbits. For those prices I want to be wowed and in my opinion JJP does a better job at doing that as they include more in their games and put more effort into their software development.

Quoted from nicoy3k:

Stern LEs are stupid. But a JJP LE is equivalent to a Stern premium, so it’s a $2200 difference.

What? Lol. A JJP standard and Stern premium are the comparable models, same goes for both LE's

#2144 4 months ago

The flippers seem to have the same weakness that the flippers on Dialed In have. Did they use FL11541 coils again? When shooting a ball off the end of the flipper bat, it should not softly lob into the opposite slingshot.

Rob

#2145 4 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

What?! No way. A JJP standard and Stern premium are the comparable models

What does the GNR standard have that is comparable to the portal lock mech and marvel ramp that AIQ has? Or the moving T Rex and raptor pen that JP has?

#2146 4 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

What does the GNR standard have that is comparable to the portal lock mech and marvel ramp that AIQ has? Or the moving T Rex and raptor pen that JP has?

Yeah I know the spinning disk isn't that big of a toy but the LCD mini stage on the standard is. The standard model has 200+ RBG lights (there's 25 on AIQ premium / LE...), the stage LCD, camera, the LED hot rails, and the spinning disk. Personally I wish the entire mini playfield was on the standard and the cost was $7500 versus stripping out more to lower the cost.

Oh, and probably 3x the software. That's a huge value point alone and is an underrated factor when it comes to perceived value and longevity of a pin.

#2147 4 months ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

The flippers seem to have the same weakness that the flippers on Dialed In have. Did they use FL11541 coils again? When shooting a ball off the end of the flipper bat, it should not softly lob into the opposite slingshot.
Rob

Never experienced this rumoured flipper weakness on JJP games, and Ive owned them all. Maybe you guys need to upgrade to 240V over there.

13
#2148 4 months ago

I'm a little worried.

mulitball (resized).jpg
#2149 4 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Yeah I know the spinning disk isn't that big of a toy but the LCD mini stage on the standard is. The standard model has 200+ RBG lights (there's 25 on AIQ premium / LE...), the stage LCD, camera, the LED hot rails, and the spinning disk. Personally I wish the entire mini playfield was on the standard and the cost was $7500 versus stripping out more to lower the cost.
Oh, and probably 3x the software. That's a huge value point alone and is an underrated factor when it comes to perceived value and longevity of a pin.

All fair points but LCD screens on the playfield, lighting and crazy complex deep code were always dogged as premium features in the past instead of mechanical toys.

Just not sure why this is different. Granted, this is done way better than previous base models, but still.

Also I doubt the standard even sniffs the light show of the LE.

#2150 4 months ago
Quoted from LapsedGamer:

The game should make you wait for hours to play it after you put a quarter in.

How common is this at their shows? Sounds like a nightmare. Reminds me of when I went to a concert for George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic, and George literally never came out the whole show. Haha

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