Quoted from mbrave77:owners thread probably better for that kind of talk.
Owners thread seems to be where owners bitch about the pooling on their playfields. I figure this thread makes the most sense to be playfield talk free.
Quoted from mbrave77:owners thread probably better for that kind of talk.
Owners thread seems to be where owners bitch about the pooling on their playfields. I figure this thread makes the most sense to be playfield talk free.
Quoted from nicoy3k:Why is the pooling appearing after gameplay? Have we ever heard of that before? I’ve always assumed pooling to be visible right out of the box. Are the post or post holes the wrong size and allowing too much give after contact? Something is strange about this IMO
My WW looked new until about 50 plays then the Playfield started to implode.
Quoted from Yelobird:My WW looked new until about 50 plays then the Playfield started to implode.
Interesting and scary
Quoted from zaphX:Sometimes I think the happiest pinball players are the ones who have never visited pinside.
They buy the games they feel like buying, play and enjoy them the way they want to...they don't go looking for issues.
Ignorance is bliss.
hence you are such a happy customer
Guys,
Is it a JJP requirement or a distro specific requirement to have paid a 1k non refundable deposit for an LE?
Thanks....
Quoted from DerGoetz:hence you are such a happy customer
So you think that someone who has never owned a pin and pays 10k for this game and the PF turns to shit within 200 plays is just gonna be happy happy happy with their purchase? I call BS.
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Guys,
Is it a JJP requirement or a distro specific requirement to have paid a 1k non refundable deposit for an LE?
Thanks....
JJP
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Guys,
Is it a JJP requirement or a distro specific requirement to have paid a 1k non refundable deposit for an LE?
Thanks....
Must be distributors because mine only required $200 refundable
Quoted from konghusker:Must be distributors because mine only required $200 refundable
This is the thing, I’m hearing mixed feedback in this regard.
Peeps moving deposits to other games, cancelling etc.......
Quoted from Tdavis7965:I have an SE and started playing last week. Initially no issues out of box. Just inspected today after 200 plays, and 7-8 posts showing initial signs of pooling. Luckily no chipping so will continue to play and monitor. I reached out to my distributor and JJP to see what their recommended solution is....
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Wait, so the pooling started to appear after 200 games played? Do you mean to tell me there wasn't any pooling when you first received the game? If so, anyone want to chime in, as to how pooling happens after games are being played. Is the clearcoat just super soft? Posts gets banged up and move the clearcoat side to side creating a pooling ripple effect?
Quoted from DerGoetz:hence you are such a happy customer
I am!
I buy these things for joy, not headaches. The second the headaches outweigh the joy, I'm out on pinball. So far the equation is working for me.
Can't wait for my GNR CE!
Quoted from Sako-TRG:This is the thing, I’m hearing mixed feedback in this regard.
Peeps moving deposits to other games, cancelling etc.......
Those distros are simply not operating by the book.
Quoted from Tdavis7965:I have an SE and started playing last week. Initially no issues out of box. Just inspected today after 200 plays, and 7-8 posts showing initial signs of pooling. Luckily no chipping so will continue to play and monitor. I reached out to my distributor and JJP to see what their recommended solution is....
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So basically all the washer does is spread the pooling further away from the actual post? No thank you - makes it even worse
Quoted from nicoy3k:Why is the pooling appearing after gameplay? Have we ever heard of that before? I’ve always assumed pooling to be visible right out of the box. Are the post or post holes the wrong size and allowing too much give after contact? Something is strange about this IMO
I’m by no means a expert on this but what you just said makes sense .The edge has to be slightly lifting up n down with contact to the posts .ill bet if you would pour clear finish onto a table then took a razor and lifted a outside edge then pressed it back down to the table it would resemble pooling .Just a guess from finishing wood over the years .
If I had to take a guess it’s probly too thick on the edges by the holes ...would need to be tapered down somehow to correct .
Quoted from BallPin:Wait, so the pooling started to appear after 200 games played? Do you mean to tell me there wasn't any pooling when you first received the game? If so, anyone want to chime in, as to how pooling happens after games are being played. Is the clearcoat just super soft? Posts gets banged up and move the clearcoat side to side creating a pooling ripple effect?
Simply looking at some of the WW or POTC fail pictures clearly this is not something you see on delivery it happens after many games. I personally have never seen a game or pictures of a game out of box that showed issues.
So. Is this an issue if the clear being too soft and the posts being too tight?
If so, would just loosing all the posts and tightening them down appropriately help?
Quoted from Kkoss24:I got a question .Do they finish the playfield before or after holes are drilled ?
After
Quoted from Pinballomatic:Back in the day Gottleib had their own metal shop and wound their own coils in house. Pretty cool. Today not so practical I believe.
At Williams, in the early to mid-nineties, we had our own metal shop, pcb through hole manufacturing, and wire harness assembly. Once Electronic Sound stopped making playfields, we needed capacity, as we were making 300 games per day. Lenc Smith gained the capability of making playfields in-house. Absolute booming time in pinball!
Thanks YB .Just seems to me it’s just air getting under the finish .They should hire the slow -mo guys to investigate with a new machine .Hell who ever knew the bands on the flippers detached that much when striking a ball until slowed way down .Pretty cool video I might add .
Quoted from Yelobird:Simply looking at some of the WW or POTC fail pictures clearly this is not something you see on delivery it happens after many games. I personally have never seen a game or pictures of a game out of box that showed issues.
So how does this happen? Is it because clear is soft? I'm so confused, if its soft to pool, then why does it chip?
I think the pooling is art adhesion with digital printing. Look at the Sterns where they don't have art around posts. No pooling. Also, no pooling on CGC which use silk screening. It's not the clear.
Quoted from jarozi:I think the pooling is art adhesion with digital printing. Look at the Sterns where they don't have art around posts. No pooling. Also, no pooling on CGC which use silk screening. It's not the clear.
Yep
My Munsters LE had pooling out of the box. Didn’t take a few hundred plays to show up. And it’s still in great shape other than it has “pooling”
JPLE, EHOHLE and STHLE all have zero pf issues for me
No art around the posts and clear seems thinner but looks great
Charlie from Spooky gets their PFs done from a buddy down the street and they have figured out a better process apparently
He offered to share his recipe for his pf’s if JJP or anyone wants to pick up the phone
Why not start dialing?
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:At Williams, in the early to mid-nineties, we had our own metal shop, pcb through hole manufacturing, and wire harness assembly. Once Electronic Sound stopped making playfields, we needed capacity, as we were making 300 games per day. Lenc Smith gained the capability of making playfields in-house. Absolute booming time in pinball!
Thanks for sharing that - fascinating
Does your game have any pooling? I know you were one of the first to get it. Interested to hear b/c I've now seen 6+ with issues and I can confirm they are all legit.
Quoted from delt31:Does your game have any pooling? I know you were one of the first to get it. Interested to hear b/c I've now seen 6+ with issues and I can confirm they are all legit.
None at this point roughly 300 plays. I Do however know of others that Have had issues so I would qualify it as luck of the draw.
Quoted from BallPin:Wait, so the pooling started to appear after 200 games played? Do you mean to tell me there wasn't any pooling when you first received the game? If so, anyone want to chime in, as to how pooling happens after games are being played. Is the clearcoat just super soft? Posts gets banged up and move the clearcoat side to side creating a pooling ripple effect?
I have always thought this was the cause. Thicker and weaker clear coat with not long enough cure time.
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:At Williams, in the early to mid-nineties, we had our own metal shop, pcb through hole manufacturing, and wire harness assembly. Once Electronic Sound stopped making playfields, we needed capacity, as we were making 300 games per day. Lenc Smith gained the capability of making playfields in-house. Absolute booming time in pinball!
I have a Lenc Smith coated FH that still looks great.
Quoted from iceman44:Charlie from Spooky gets their PFs done from a buddy down the street and they have figured out a better process apparently
He offered to share his recipe for his pf’s if JJP or anyone wants to pick up the phone
Why not start dialing?
It would be great if Spooky/Stern/JJP pooled their resources and moved playfield manufacturing to the US. How hard could it be?
They botched BSD.
Quoted from Zablon:I have a Lenc Smith coated FH that still looks great.
Quoted from konghusker:Must be distributors because mine only required $200 refundable
...you lucky Americans... $2,000 CDN(around $1,500 USD) for my Collector’s Ed.
Quoted from Yelobird:Simply looking at some of the WW or POTC fail pictures clearly this is not something you see on delivery it happens after many games.
Nope... game i posted had been played for just two days... about 50 plays before we inspected it. The wonkas i have experience with were also low plays.
Quoted from flynnibus:Nope... game i posted had been played for just two days... about 50 plays before we inspected it. The wonkas i have experience with were also low plays.
That was my point. He asked if they were failed NIB. You will see damage in a short amount of plays just as you replied.
Quoted from BallPin:So how does this happen? Is it because clear is soft? I'm so confused, if its soft to pool, then why does it chip?
Detachment. The clear can wrinkle because it has so much flex added to it (as they try to avoid chipping). But something is happening causing the finishes to loose adhesion to the wood substrate and eventually can chip.
Quoted from Jvspin:I would bet Mirco has been working on it. Why wouldn't he? It's bad for his business and terrible for the manufacturers, like JJP, he supplies.
So, basically he's been working on it for four years, while spooky worked on it for what?
Four months?
He still hasn't solved it, so something tells me, he' s NOT the right man for the job.
2+2.
As of yet, the only thing that is puzzling is why jjp hasn't come up with the answer for 2+2.
Also, to thoose saying the problem is that the clearcoat is to thick....
You are aware that nowdays it's quite popular doing countertops and such consisting of only clearcoat.
My guess is that his mass-producing manufacturing process is faulty.
He probably have tubing and nozzles that require the coating polymere to be at low viscosity to work and not clotter said nozzles?
Well, i dont know but it's clearly not working.
Quoted from BallPin:Wait, so the pooling started to appear after 200 games played? Do you mean to tell me there wasn't any pooling when you first received the game? If so, anyone want to chime in, as to how pooling happens after games are being played. Is the clearcoat just super soft? Posts gets banged up and move the clearcoat side to side creating a pooling ripple effect?
The formula is faulty, or there are mixing inconsistency.
Quoted from zaphX:I am!
I buy these things for joy, not headaches. The second the headaches outweigh the joy, I'm out on pinball. So far the equation is working for me.
Can't wait for my GNR CE!
I’m with you. I’ve bought two games - JJP POTC and Stern JP. I have GNR ordered as my 3rd. I read pinside daily like the rest of you nuts. But for some reason I have never looked down at my playfields for pooling and chipping. Is it there? It might be. I still have no plans to find out yet remain quite happy.
I don’t mean to take away from those who care about it, which is totally understandable.
Quoted from phoenixpin:I’m with you. I’ve bought two games - JJP POTC and Stern JP. I have GNR ordered as my 3rd. I read pinside daily like the rest of you nuts. But for some reason I have never looked down at my playfields for pooling and chipping. Is it there? It might be. I still have no plans to find out yet remain quite happy.
I don’t mean to take away from those who care about it, which is totally understandable.
Update: I reserve the right to feel differently if I ever sell my games
Quoted from phoenixpin:Update: I reserve the right to feel differently if I ever sell my games
Duly noted. The record shall so reflect...
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I know there's a good number of GNR owners with pooling / chipping but over 50% of those "yes" votes in the other thread are probably from Stern Army members.
Even if half of the poll votes are fake you still have a huge issue
This isn't pooling. Period. The post is moving enough to start to deform the clear. The only place on mine that has the issue is the two inner posts closest to the flippers. 450-500 games so far.
Quoted from Yelobird:My WW looked new until about 50 plays then the Playfield started to implode.
Pics or it did not happen LOL
Quoted from JY64:Pics or it did not happen LOL
No problem! Even did a full thread on how to fix it when it happened.
Quoted from Yelobird:No problem! Even did a full thread on how to fix it when it happened.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-playfield-post-repair-and-chip-proofing-how-to-all-brands
Dude, congrats, that was ballsy to put an iron plate to smooth out the pooling. Insane!! I don't think I have the courage to do that.
Quoted from JY64:Even if half of the poll votes are fake you still have a huge issue
I think it’s a small issue,don’t you?
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