(Topic ID: 150428)

Guns N Roses habitrail


By Hwawonyu

4 years ago



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  • 68 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 74 days ago by HighwayStarr
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 68 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

Hey gang ,
Just got a GNR and I have the problem with the black habitrail and balls not making it up.
Anyone know the best fix. Stronger coil? Any replacement habitrails left out there?
Thanks!
Dave

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Hey gang ,
Just got a GNR and I have the problem with the black habitrail and balls not making it up.
Anyone know the best fix. Stronger coil? Any replacement habitrails left out there?
Thanks!
Dave

Make sure the coil is hitting the ball square. Do the adjustments as outlined in the service bullletin #64 (On ipdb.org). Stronger coil after all that. That habittrail (Any of the 3 versions) are hard to come by, and can be expensive. I would do the adjustments in order of (making sure it is square, stronger coil, and lastly the bulletin (since it involves some drilling)

#3 4 years ago

Thanks

#4 4 years ago

Agree do all of the above and I have also though of having the ramp plated or black cromed or what ever to make it smoother with less friction but with the three fixes you should get by if the game is home use

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

Make sure the coil is hitting the ball square. Do the adjustments as outlined in the service bullletin #64 (On ipdb.org). Stronger coil after all that. That habittrail (Any of the 3 versions) are hard to come by, and can be expensive. I would do the adjustments in order of (making sure it is square, stronger coil, and lastly the bulletin (since it involves some drilling)

GN'R have been bugging me with their launch ramp for years. Great game, but having the hang ups every now and then (mostly during Paradise City multiball) really sucks.

I did all of those suggestions you mention, including the service bulletin which involved lowering the back of the ramp and drilling new holes in the backboard. To no avail. Nothing helps, balls keep getting stuck in the shooter lane. Sometimes 6 in a row. Someone suggested removing the black "plastic" from the ramp, sandblasting it to chrome but that would look awful. It needs to be black. Someone else suggested lowering the back of the game, but I need my games at 6.5 degrees minimum or I'll fall asleep.

I have also replaced the coil with a new one (same rating), no dice. So all that remains to try is a stronger coil. Any part# suggestions for that?

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Hey gang ,
Just got a GNR and I have the problem with the black habitrail and balls not making it up.
Anyone know the best fix. Stronger coil? Any replacement habitrails left out there?
Thanks!
Dave

Ugh, I went through all of this crap with the Black wireform launch ramp when I still had my GnR. I tried everything too (replacing coil, stronger coil, lowering back part of ramp, lowering pitch, etc) & nothing seemed to work consistently. However, I was lucky enough to find a spare Chrome wireform launch ramp from a fellow Pinsider, and sure enough, swapping in the Chrome ramp solved all of my issues.

#7 4 years ago

I had it happen constantly, and I have the stock setup launch ramp. I took about 50 windings out of the coil and this helped but didn't cure it. I then eye balled the coil and bracket and noticed some slop- the plastic rod MUST strike the ball dead on like hitting a cue ball. I also aligned the rail at point of entry from the wood to the rail, as you can lose momentum here if it is not flush.

Since, I haven't had one hang up. It's frustrating but there are ways.

P.S, I think my game is set pretty steep, it's not sleeper.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from robin:

GN'R have been bugging me with their launch ramp for years. Great game, but having the hang ups every now and then (mostly during Paradise City multiball) really sucks.
I did all of those suggestions you mention, including the service bulletin which involved lowering the back of the ramp and drilling new holes in the backboard. To no avail. Nothing helps, balls keep getting stuck in the shooter lane. Sometimes 6 in a row. Someone suggested removing the black "plastic" from the ramp, sandblasting it to chrome but that would look awful. It needs to be black. Someone else suggested lowering the back of the game, but I need my games at 6.5 degrees minimum or I'll fall asleep.
I have also replaced the coil with a new one (same rating), no dice. So all that remains to try is a stronger coil. Any part# suggestions for that?

A quick search turns up a 22-500 coil instead of the 22-600.

It was a pretty bad design error by DE to not have a switch at the top of the ramp that would let the game know when the ball had cleared.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

I then eye balled the coil and bracket and noticed some slop- the plastic rod MUST strike the ball dead on like hitting a cue ball. I also aligned the rail at point of entry from the wood to the rail, as you can lose momentum here if it is not flush.

I have slack and think this may help. Also will order the 22-500 lower number is stronger yes?

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I have slack and think this may help. Also will order the 22-500 lower number is stronger yes?

Yes, lower number (less windings) = stronger coil.

#11 4 years ago

If anyone has one of those replacement habitrails hit me up. Will pay top dollar. This themes is a keeper for me.
Thanks

#12 4 years ago

i've had 3 GNR's and never had a problem with it getting jammed up. But all 3 of mine had the chrome entrance ramps.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

If anyone has one of those replacement habitrails hit me up. Will pay top dollar. This themes is a keeper for me.
Thanks

Keep an eye on eBay too. They pop up every once in a great while. If you have trade bait, that may help too. They tend to go for big bucks, 300+ easily.

#14 4 years ago

I will pay 400 ; )

#15 4 years ago

Is there a difference between the chrome and black or just the finish? If its just the finish than just get the black one chromed ?

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Is there a difference between the chrome and black or just the finish? If its just the finish than just get the black one chromed ?

One of the versions of the chrome wireform ramp is the same as the black wireform.

There are actually 3 different versions of the wireform launch ramp (pics attached below):

Version 1: Black wireform that goes over "R" ramp
Version 2: Chrome wireform that goes over "R" ramp
Version 3: Shorter chrome wireform that goes under "R" ramp (with modified VUK wireform)

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#17 4 years ago

Ok so version 3 shorter one is the ideal one to have . Is the chrome regular one work better than the black bc of the coating tho also?

#18 4 years ago

shorter one plays the same, because once the ball gets past the top of the R, it's all downhill anyway, so doesn't effect anything. The initial upward motion is the part that matters. But it doesn't have to go quite as high, but i've never found it to be a problem. The drag from the powdercoat is the biggest issue.

#19 4 years ago

So can the black be stripped and re done?

#20 4 years ago

I've said for years and years that the Rev 3 is the one to have, if you can find it. Most haven't played it so they simply don't know.

Rev 3 not only adds flow and speed to the game, but it takes out the main point scabbing exploit in scoring: Pops all day long! That's the dismissive way the tourney crowd has referred to GnR for years now, because the ones in tourneys and at PAPA have always had the Rev 1/2.

DE finally got it right by Rev 3, but so few know about it because it was at the end of production. Makes for a better, faster, more challenging game and eliminates the Pops exploit. And Z-E-R-O ball hangups. I've owned my GnR since 97 with the Rev3 ramp and I can't remember a ball hangup even once in the shooter lane.

Rev 1/2 were only designed that way to distribute the balls onto a stage ball lock, which never happened, so it just ends up dumping EVERYTHING into the jets. With the right saucer and left orbit both going into the jets for the entire game, when you also dump every launch in there, it's ridiculous. Rev 3 cures it all.

Good luck

#21 4 years ago

Is their any way someone could re make the revision 3 habit trail?

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Is their any way someone could re make the revision 3 habit trail?

Matt Gaulden likely could. He's done AFM wireforms, and MM wireforms for Wally's from-scratch MM.

http://www.rollingballsculpture.com/pinball-track-fabrication/

If he still does them, I'd imagine there'd be a fair amount of GNR owners that would go in on a pre-order/group buy. I'd be in for one set at least.

EDIT: Finding someone to lend their set of shooter and VUK wireforms to Matt might be the hardest part of getting them redone (assuming, again, it's a project he would take on.)

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

So can the black be stripped and re done?

I don't see why not, so long as the original coating can be removed somehow.

#24 4 years ago

I be in on a remake of version 3 and I am sure lots of others also,

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I've said for years and years that the Rev 3 is the one to have, if you can find it.

I would be in for the version 3 remake, and probably donate to the cause as well. Sounds like a fantastic idea.

With the version 3, what changes exactly? The add band member to VUK still dumps to the pops, yes?

Where does the ball go when it is launched... does it come out one of the orbits?

I am all for playing the best version I can, and it is a keeper for me as well!

#26 4 years ago

I'm in as well!

#27 4 years ago

Version 3 would need to include a new VUK as well.

#28 4 years ago

yes, the VUK throws it up and basically lands on the backstage pass insert. Which I really don't know what that even does. Seems like it was ment for something that never got done. Launching the ball hard, makes the ball go around the back and along the left loop to the upper flipper. Not sure if there is a skill shot for the upper loop on the plunge or not. I had one with stage 3 entrance, but didn't dabble with it enough to know if the software has stuff like that programmed in.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

yes, the VUK throws it up and basically lands on the backstage pass insert. Which I really don't know what that even does. Seems like it was ment for something that never got done. Launching the ball hard, makes the ball go around the back and along the left loop to the upper flipper. Not sure if there is a skill shot for the upper loop on the plunge or not. I had one with stage 3 entrance, but didn't dabble with it enough to know if the software has stuff like that programmed in.

That VUK is my biggest gripe with the stage 3 stuff. It is simply awful, and obviously had zero thought put into it at all.

#30 4 years ago

How about a stage 2 ramp,just need one not the vuk ,maybe easer to get done, I would buy that also

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

That VUK is my biggest gripe with the stage 3 stuff. It is simply awful, and obviously had zero thought put into it at all.

well that whole setup with phase 3, was a last minute resolve, due to taxing the system. So DE was scrambling around for a fix to work with what they have.

Stage 2 is exactly like stage 1, except it's not powdercoated. You could have yours blasted and chromed and it would be the same thing.

#32 4 years ago

If it was reasonably priced, I would be down for an upgraded launch habitrail.

Not sure I understand the issues with the vuk-What's the problem with the vuk?

#33 4 years ago

well the newer version just drops the ball in the same spot. Which is going to give your playfield a pounding. Stage 1 and 2 sets it down softer with less wear and tear

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Stage 2 is exactly like stage 1, except it's not powdercoated. You could have yours blasted and chromed and it would be the same thing.

You sure about that, I thought on the Chrome V.2 they did some modifications to it compared to the all black V.1 ?

#35 4 years ago

I have v2 ramps, can't say it's ever been a real issue, but every once in a while the shooter has to fire a second time.

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

well the newer version just drops the ball in the same spot. Which is going to give your playfield a pounding. Stage 1 and 2 sets it down softer with less wear and tear

With v3 the VUK still drops everything into the the pops, and the shooter launches the ball around the left orbit, *sometimes*? Sounds like a very minor improvement.

#36 4 years ago

I had the revision 3 on mine so never had that problem. But there is an adjustment in the menu to increase coil pulse. Just sayin'...

#37 4 years ago

Nothing else really changes with Rev 3. The VUK on mine puts the ball into the jets, and lands between the M and Backstage inserts. It's just a way to get the ball out of the saucer. The initial ball launch goes around to the left flipper(s) and you are right into gameplay after the skill shot selection. I really love the flow of it on Multiball starts, it's great.

The only exploit which should've been corrected is that if you have Encore ball save activated, then you can get a 20M shot credit by allowing a drain immediately after starting Slash Solo. I don't know too many people who would give away their ball save for 20M but it is there.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

well the newer version just drops the ball in the same spot. Which is going to give your playfield a pounding. Stage 1 and 2 sets it down softer with less wear and tear

Nope. Not a mark on my playfield. Been dropping em there since '97

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

With v3 the VUK still drops everything into the the pops, and the shooter launches the ball around the left orbit, *sometimes*? Sounds like a very minor improvement.

The VUK and a shot into the left orbit puts the ball into the jets, same on all Revs.

The difference in Rev3 is very simple. The BALL LAUNCH does not just dump everything into the jets but instead shoots it around to the left flipper(s), which has always made more sense to me, adds better flow, better shots on the fly, etc. Removes the Super/Mega Pops scoring exploit that so many tourney players pigeon hole their strategy. And of course goes UNDER the R ramp instead of over, so you never have the shooter struggling to launch balls and then hanging up. Rev 1/2 were designed for a feature that was never put in the production game.

The reason Super/Mega Pops are such a tourney staple is because Rev1/2 dump every single ball launch into the jets, IN ADDITION to a left orbit or VUK from right saucer.

It is SO nice to get all those shots at Multiball launches directly to the flipper, speed and flow, as opposed to waiting on 6 balls to bounce around and through the jets before you can start shooting...

#40 4 years ago

and yours had rev 3 all those years? I'm surprised because the ball is being dropped from high level and in the exact same spot every time. Surprise it's not pounded to shit.

#41 4 years ago

Does this Rev 3 have any mounting changes or need different plastics? I'm in for a set if we get this put together.

#42 4 years ago

I played on a rev 3 someone brought to Pintastic show. It was definitely interesting, as it just shoots it quickly onto the field. Seemed pretty impossible for a hang up, being so low. Didn't even think or notice the vuk would have to be different.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

and yours had rev 3 all those years? I'm surprised because the ball is being dropped from high level and in the exact same spot every time. Surprise it's not pounded to shit.

Factory mylar is a wonderous thing. GNR came from factory mylared in the jets, in front of slingshots, over Slash's tatoo and (at least on mine) atop the rollover lanes in the upper orbit. Covers the JAM inserts and the Backstage pass, protecting the area you're worried about.

Now, mine was purchased from a distributor as a reboxed floor demo, so essentially HUO (still had new game smell when I got it and not a mark on the Axl hole). So it did not get put to the bar test or anything. But the first year I owned it I think I played it every single day. If it was going to be an issue, it might've shown itself by now, I think. The Rev3 VUK will not tear up your playfield in home use.

IMG_1732_(resized).JPG

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

I played on a rev 3 someone brought to Pintastic show. It was definitely interesting, as it just shoots it quickly onto the field. Seemed pretty impossible for a hang up, being so low. Didn't even think or notice the vuk would have to be different.

My GNR was in free play and it has the black over R ramp habit trail. We're was the other one?

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

My GNR was in free play and it has the black over R ramp habit trail. We're was the other one?

There were 3. Yours, mine and the other was in the same row near the end that bundy had his games in.

#46 4 years ago

I have the V2 ramp and implemented all of the suggested fixes (including adding a stronger coil). One fix that I came up with that seemed to have the biggest difference is moving the shooter lane switch closer to the plunger. If the switch fires before the ball comes to a complete rest, it won't have the maximum force. Might want to see if your switch is firing before the ball comes to it's resting position closest to the plunger. My machine rarely fails now, but it took many tweaks to get it dialed in.

#47 4 years ago

Also make sure the 3 bolts holding the coil bracket in place are their and tight.

#48 4 years ago

looks like it's holding up well. A lot better than I think it would. I get in fields to restore every day that have drops on the inlanes, and the ball only drops from the same height as a star post. yet it's cracked to shit, ground in dirt and just pummeled to hell. everyone has a divot.

the VUK on the 3rd edition GNR is at least twice as high, if not 3 times more. I don't know how it's holding up that well. The drop lanes on TAF and what not have mylar patches too, but doesn't seem to help. Maybe it takes 10k+ games to really show the beating?

1 week later
#49 4 years ago

I have a really clean GnR with Rev2 ramps. It had a 23-800 coil in the launch when I got it which was clearly causing problems. I replaced with the recommended 22-600 and there would still be stuck balls. I've tried to dial everything in and it's still unreliable, which is a bummer because I'd like to put the game out for people to enjoy but I can only keep it in our private club because every night, by the end of the night, I look over and there's 6 balls in the shooter lane

Someone looked at my launch kicker and it was concave instead of convex and suggested that might be a problem. I can see how that might impart a little more potential force to a ball, but I can't imagine that would make that much difference. I was debating pulling some windings off the 22-600 but I looked and there is a 20-400 DE coil available - not sure what it was originally for. It's got a resistance of 1 ohm. I'd love to have something that could theoretically push 2-3 balls out of the lane if it needed. Anybody tried that?

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Someone looked at my launch kicker and it was concave instead of convex and suggested that might be a problem.

The concave is better at centering the ball onto the kicker before launch, and then grabbing it during the launch... convex would push it to the side.

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