(Topic ID: 134141)

Guns and Roses PinSound board from France.

By dannunz

4 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 82 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by HighwayStarr
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders


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#12 4 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Ok I just ordered a board for my GNR I need to see if it is really worth all the hype.

It is, and GNR is such a good candidate for this board, with such low-quality music samples.

Still in the midst of working on my GNR PinSound mix. I've almost got the music sorted out, trying now to figure out how to keep the various samples/callouts from stepping on each other or canceling out when they shouldn't, and then to see what to do about the non-music sound effects.

3 weeks later
#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Gotpins:

The original sound board plays "of all the bands in the world we're certainly one of them" at the start of ball 1 but does NOT play the same line for the start of ball 2 or 3. This is how I want the Pinsound board to act but I also want to add "Wake up its time to play" to be a random possibility for ball 1 only.

The "Of all the bands..." sound (#000188) doesn't always get played before ball 1, only sometimes - apparently randomly. But yeah, you can add the "Wake up..." .wav to that 000188 directory so that if the machine does decide to play 000188 before ball 1, it'll pick one of the files you have in there. (000188 is also the sound normally played when you turn the machine on, but it won't get played as the PinSound board is still booting at that time.)

Quoted from Gotpins:

Ok, I think I'm catching on. I found the Welcome launch ball 2 file 000006 which has the wake up line plus the welcome to the jungle tune. I'm going to replace that with just a plain welcome to the jungle tune so that should take care of ball 2 launch. But I can't find a ball 3 tune yet. I'll keep digging.

GNR doesn't play different music for different balls. While waiting for you to launch the ball, file 000006 plays - I have that folder labeled in my mix as 'waiting for ball launch.' (The exception to this is if you have the Multiball Ready adjustment set at easy (so that multiball is always lit at your final ball launch even if you don't have all band members on stage) - in that case it will play the 000003 'multiball ready' music instead of 000006.)

Once you do hit launch (assuming you don't go straight into a Guitar mode at launch that plays its own background music) the machine will play 000002 - I refer to that as 'background music - no mode'. Sometimes you'll get 000011 or 000012 (both originally Ain't Going Down) as the background instead - not sure if there's any game logic behind that or if that's a random selection.

Still working on my GNR mix. A lot of tedious back-and-forth between recording games on the machine and then replaying that file on the PC, and some frustration with both the original Data East GNR sound structure and the way the PinSound has to interact with that, but it's rewarding every time I figure out another piece - it's a completely different game with proper audio.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from HighwayStarr:

3. flash drive port on card is in awkward position and you will be inserting and removing it a lot ... again you need to have room to get into the back box and remove the backglass every time.

Add in a USB extension cable. I think the one I used is 9 feet. Run it down into the cabinet and up to the front where you can access it inside the coin door.

It's a must-have when you really get into tweaking and testing your mix.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from HighwayStarr:

meh .... tried a completely different thumb drive ... same result ... an annoying alarm tone and voice saying "there are no .wav files in the audio directory" .... that was with both the "*.zip file only on the drive and I also tried unzipping the files and putting them directly in the audio directory ..but got same annoying result .... I also notice when these filesa re unzipped I can see the individual files and folder names but when I click/open them there is nothing there .... 0 bytes ...... what the heck am I doing wrong?
anyone??? little help please?

Did you download your .zip via the link below, from http://www.pinsound.org/pinballs/data-east-r3/guns-n-roses/ ?


That just downloads an empty folder structure. Just gives you the basic layout, but no audio.

The pinsound-community.org site has the folder structure including the original sounds.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from HighwayStarr:

OK so that would be the "Guns_and_Roses_1994.zip By gerald " .... I see .... I had to completely delete Julian's mix off the thumb drive to revert back to this one. .. (still cant seem to figure out how to change on the fly either) .... I don't know guys, I'm not that impressed .. I downloaded that initially when I set it up but its pretty jumpy on the audio here and there which is why I had no idea that it was the "official" standard mix . ... i'm a bit disappointed again as I was expecting much better .... unless i'm missing something its really not significantly better than the stock card sounds from 1994 and yes I have done the speaker upgrade

It's no better than the "stock card sounds" because the files in that .zip ARE the stock sounds, ripped straight from the sound ROMs in all of their super-low-resolution glory. The PinSound board isn't going to improve the sound of those (garbage in = garbage out) other than offering you the ability to separately adjust the treble and bass. Consider that .zip a starting point, a 'template' if you will, and start replacing individual effects or background music. Using the game record function of the PinSound board is a good idea, too - play a game (or pull the glass and manually trigger switches) and then step through the .psrec file in PinSound Studio to see what sounds are getting triggered for each event.

Many of those sounds in that .zip aren't laid out in the best folder locations for playback, either, as you've noticed (the 'jumpy' audio.) As you're putting together your mix you'll want to be sure that appropriate audio types end up in the proper folder - the PinSound board handles the sounds in the 5 folder types differently (from http://www.pinsound.org/sound-files-usage/):

“voice” folder
In this folder, voices or callout are stored.
Multiple voices can be played simultaneously (depending of the machine)
Voices are played over music and sfx

“sfx” folder
This folder for SFX is where are stored are very short sounds.
Multiple SFX can be played simultaneously, over music and voices.

“music” folder
Music files are looped and played continuously until stopped by the CPU or by a single.

“jingle” folder
Jingles are short music clips which are played once while the music that was previously playing is paused. This music is resumed once the jingle has been played.

“single” folder
Same as jingle, but the music is stopped and don’t resume as the jingle does.

Quoted from HighwayStarr:

it seems to me at this point the charm of this card is being able to make your own sound mixes... I'm no audiophile but I do know that so far my game doesn't really sound any better

That's exactly the point of the card. As mentioned, it won't do anything for the lousy stock audio except give you some minor equalization capability.

I'll try to post a sample video of my in-progress GNR mix tonight.

1 week later
#61 4 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

I have put in about 40 hours on my Guns n Roses mix and I must say is is coming out awsome. Been cutting in songs and added a song for ramp millions. Also some custom stuff. I will be posting a video soon and than uploading the mix to pinsound. It took a ton of time trying to figure out what I was doing but it's worth it!

Nice, look forward to seeing a video. I hope to get a video up of my in-progress GNR mix by this weekend.

I had to backtrack on mine a bit - I went all-in right at the start, replacing a bunch of items at once, and then during testing having to keep track of 20+ different things that didn't work or had to be re-thought. So I reverted my changes and just focused on the music; now have almost all of the music beds done and can start focusing on the SFX and callouts this weekend. Bumping up against the limitations of the original sound design (the same jingle is used when you earn an extra ball and then just before you launch that extra ball, for example) but it'll get there - I downloaded a crap-ton of production-house audio libraries to sort through for (hopefully) some usable hits and effects.

"A ton of time" indeed. Makes one really appreciate what Endprodukt is doing with his complete reorchestrations. At least with the music pins we've already got the complete music tracks to work with, while he's building everything from nothing.

1 week later
#67 4 years ago
Quoted from HighwayStarr:

currently reloading your mix now ..... takes a LOOOOONG time ... just curious if I start manipulating a few files here and there is it going to have FULLY reload everytime I make a change ?

Not sure what you mean by 'reloading' - you mean the machine unzipping the .zip file? That does take a long time (much faster to do it on your PC) but only needs to be done once.

When you change files, you just shove the USB into your PC, replace the already-unzipped .wav file(s) as you like, then jam it back into the pinball machine and start it back up. No unzipping involved.

4 weeks later
#70 4 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Anyone know the title track in GnR when it plays "Match" before the girl that takes her top off is shown? I want to find it on my file but can't and it randomly plays that one (sometimes yes, sometimes no) so wanted to check it out.

After your final ball, looks like it plays 000144 (little musical ditty), then 000157 twice (the chick laughing), 000173 (bell) when the match # is displayed, and then assuming you don't match you get 000195 ("oh dude") and 000016 (end of game music)


3 weeks later
#72 4 years ago

(Disclaimer - this is from my phone sitting precariously on the apron, so I wasn't nudging. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. Also, yes, the glass is on so the low-angle video looks like shit - I originally started this with the glass off and my wife came downstairs with divorce papers and a pen, so the glass went back on.)

Still plenty to do, especially on the SFX and voice callouts, but music is far enough along that I figured I'd do a first video test. Haven't yet figured out how to handle the Dizzy/Gilby shared music, so for now I left the original music in for those modes. Gilby will (ideally) just be the motorcycle with no background music, and for now I do have a new motorcycle sound (and pedestrian thumps) in, but those are works in progress.

Lost of work left on the non-music SFX - it's easy enough to replace the stock music with quality .wavs, but selecting new SFX that "fit" is proving much more difficult. I do think I've got the mode start (Rocket Queen riff - I LOVE THIS), extra ball, encore, 'add band member', kickback, mode lock (trigger) and chick laugh nailed down. Still need to come up with a decent "ball launch" firing sound, and a similar but less-aggressive firing sound for the pop bumpers. Right now I've removed both, and actually like that the pops don't have SFX (there's a lot of stock SFX during play that I think can be removed completely, or at the least shortened up considerably - some of the ramp "whizzes" are ridiculously too long), but that pop bumper sound is also used when you cancel out the bonus rundown at end of ball, and I miss having that notification there. The ball launch firing sound needs to come back, but I had a really aggressive shotgun blast in there, and during multiball modes it was just stupid. (At 9:57 you see why some type of ball launch sound needs to come back - when you launch a ball but don't activate a mode, you really need some kind of sound/marker to delineate that something has happened.)

For the 'waiting for ball launch' background music, I used an instrumental demo of Civil War, and that's the only place it's used, to distinguish it from the ball-in-play (either mode-specific or non-mode) background tracks. I put 4-5 copies of it in that folder, each starting at a different point in the track, which was one of those hit-yourself-in-the-forehead revelations when I finally thought to do that - really makes each ball start so much less repetitive, especially using a non-album track.

At the end of the match sequence, that's the announcer from Unreal Tournament. With the Polk powered sub connected (in this video it isn't) the reverb on that is worth the price of admission. After that, I've got 4-5 different end of game "outro" tracks - the one that plays in this video is from the 01-01-01 Vegas 'comeback' show - the only place in the mix where I felt OK going into 'new' GNR territory.

Enough of my yapping. Video's 12 minutes long - cheat sheet if you wanna jump around is below. Starts before power-on, for anyone not familiar with the PinSound boot sequence.

0:20 boot.wav starts
0:36 background civil war
0:39 mode start - matt
0:48 encore
1:15 add band member
1:24 tick tock
1:30 mode start - slash
1:39 kickback (car rev)
2:21 coma is lit
2:33 mode start - gilby
3:11 add band member
3:14 mode start - coma
3:59 extra ball awarded
4:24 add band member
4:48 extra ball start
4:54 mode start - snakepit
5:06 add band member
5:54 mode start - dizzy ramps
6:28 mode start - duff
7:06 mode start - axl 3 ball
8:06 mystery
8:14 mode start - riot
9:57 add band member via trigger (no trigger sound)
11:37 match sequence - new chick laugh and "oh dude" voice
11:43 game over outro music

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from HighwayStarr:

nice job BlackJacker ... Don't really think I have the patience to pursue this much further myself but I do admire some of your guys efforts

Thanks. It's definitely a process, trying to make sense of what sound gets played at what time and why - lots of recording and playing back games (both via video and .psrec files) and then sorting out which folder a sound should be in, then back and forth with volume adjustments... definitely a lot of iteration.

Because there's no real 'base' to start from it's a lot of trial and error and frustration at the start. (The 'stock' sound mix available from the PinSound forums does indeed have the stock sounds, but their filenames aren't necessarily indicative of what they really are or when they get played, and many of them are in the wrong folders for proper playback.)

I'm getting there, slowly. Certainly I think more than halfway finished, now just to clean up 2-3 of the full music tracks and then focus on the SFX and callouts.

Quoted from HighwayStarr:

I may take another stab at it this weekend but i'm thinking ill be putting my factory sound board back in and putting my Pinsound board up for sale

Don't do it! GNR is exactly the type of machine the PinSound was made for - a music pin with truly abysmal stock audio quality. The PinSound board really makes playing it a completely different experience.

3 years later
#79 6 months ago
Quoted from Lysurgeon:

Where can i download this mix?

It's not hosted anywhere, that's just an in-progress video of where I was with mine.

3 years later... still tinkering with it. Actually as recently as the last couple of weeks, in anticipation of the shaker kit.

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