Gulfstream
Williams, 1973game doesn't acknowledge when the ball is drained. if i manually trigger the outhole relay, it spins the score motor and fires the ball release coil; this tells me the issue is somewhere before the outhole relay.
at about e10 on the schematic it shows the outhole relay. i've backtraced this but not sure to where exactly. the ball count unit switch IS closed when checking things but i still have no luck. what am i missing here?
Quoted from vipertblck:game doesn't acknowledge when the ball is drained. if i manually trigger the outhole relay, it spins the score motor and
If the Outhole relay doesn't activate when you close the Outhole switch, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from HowardR:If the Outhole relay doesn't activate when you close the Outhole switch, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156
[quoted image]
thanks, that's the same circuit i was eyeing down trying to diagnose. at least i was on the right path with that. not having any luck though. thinking about taking a jumper from the yellow wire directly to the green/white on the outhole switch and trying that to see if it'll work.
Quoted from vipertblck:thanks, that's the same circuit i was eyeing down trying to diagnose. at least i was on the right path with that. not having any luck though. took a jumper from the yellow wire directly to the green/white on the outhole switch & then closed the switch, that didn't work either.
few things to mention and make sure are correct.
-index f cam top contacts (yellow & orange/green) are N.O contacts with the motor in the stopped position. index f bottom contacts (yellow & white/blue) are N.C. with motor in stopped position. motor stopped position is with the tooth into the indent on the cam as shown in the schematic.
-green/white wire on outhole switch has 6v AC. blue/yellow sire on outhole switch has 27v AC. Even the blue/yellow wire going into the outhole relay coil has around 30v AC as well.
Quoted from vipertblck:anyone got any help or guidance on this yet?
As far as switches on stacks over the motor cams, you should be able to figure just about every one out... look at the default position of the switches you're analyzing, and with the game off, move the cams... each switch pair will change from open to closed or closed to open as the switch stacks move up and down over the cam indents. Is this what you're referring to?
Quoted from Dono:As far as switches on stacks over the motor cams, you should be able to figure just about every one out... look at the default position of the switches you're analyzing, and with the game off, move the cams... each switch pair will change from open to closed or closed to open as the switch stacks move up and down over the cam indents. Is this what you're referring to?
yes. usually on some schematics i've seen it saying N.O. or N.C. not in this case though. as im having such a hard time with this issue, i wanted to cross all bases and ask the obvious in some cases. i'll go through and check those switches again that are in this circuit just to triple check
Quoted from vipertblck:yes. usually on some schematics i've seen it saying N.O. or N.C. not in this case though. as im having such a hard time with this issue, i wanted to cross all bases and ask the obvious in some cases. i'll go through and check those switches again that are in this circuit just to triple check
Since the only score motor switch in that circuit is IND F, that should be very simple to eyeball... index cam is the one next to the motor housing... each switch pair on the stack is lettered from the bottom (A) to the top, so the IND F Make/Break switch is at the top or close to the top of the stack... might want to clean it with your choice of cleaning instrument, and ensure that the make-break action is correct as you move the cam. If you're not familiar with a Make - Break switch, there's good info on here, just search.
Quoted from Dono:Since the only score motor switch in that circuit is IND F, that should be very simple to eyeball... index cam is the one next to the motor housing... each switch pair on the stack is lettered from the bottom (A) to the top, so the IND F Make/Break switch is at the top or close to the top of the stack... might want to clean it with your choice of cleaning instrument, and ensure that the make-break action is correct as you move the cam. If you're not familiar with a Make - Break switch, there's good info on here, just search.
checked this. index f is actually the second cam from the motor i believe, as there are 2 index cams. the motor run( as howardb outlined above) is orange/green, yellow, and white/blue. im tracing the white/blue as that's for my outhole relay circuit. yellow is supplying the power to the outhole relay, via the zero position switch on the ball count unit, and the outhole switch. so to bypass everything and make sure we have a good relay at least, shouldn't the relay engage when i take a jumper from the yellow cam wire off index f, and connect it to the blue/yellow going directly to the outhole relay coil?
Quoted from vipertblck:checked this. index f is actually the second cam from the motor i believe, as there are 2 index cams. the motor run( as howardb outlined above) is orange/green, yellow, and white/blue. im tracing the white/blue as that's for my outhole relay circuit. yellow is supplying the power to the outhole relay, via the zero position switch on the ball count unit, and the outhole switch. so to bypass everything and make sure we have a good relay at least, shouldn't the relay engage when i take a jumper from the yellow cam wire off index f, and connect it to the blue/yellow going directly to the outhole relay coil?
Yes, I would take one alligator clip and attach it to the closed R-Y motor switch IND-F and the other end to the B-Y outhole relay wire... that should fire the outhole relay. If it doesn't keep going down the line from the motor switch (e.g move alligator clip from motor switch to R-Y Ball Count Unit EOS. If that's good, move clip to G-W outhole switch)...YOU WILL FIND YOUR ISSUE... HAVE FAITH... and when u do you will be ultra stoked and ready to be challenged by other pin issues.
Quoted from Dono:Yes, I would take one alligator clip and attach it to the closed R-Y motor switch IND-F and the other end to the B-Y outhole relay wire... that should fire the outhole relay. If it doesn't keep going down the line from the motor switch (e.g alligator clip on R-Y Ball Count Unit EOS... if ok, then alligator clip on G-W outhole switch)...YOU WILL FIND YOUR ISSUE... HAVE FAITH... and when u do you will be ultra stoked and ready to be challenged by other pin issues.
Quoted from Dono:Yes, I would take one alligator clip and attach it to the closed R-Y motor switch IND-F and the other end to the B-Y outhole relay wire... that should fire the outhole relay. The relay SHOULD fire... when it does, now keep going down the line from the motor switch to isolate the fault (e.g move alligator clip from motor switch to R-Y Ball Count Unit EOS. If the relay doesn't fire you've found your issue... YOU WILL FIND YOUR ISSUE... HAVE FAITH... and when u do you will be ultra stoked and ready to be challenged by other pin issues.
Quoted from vipertblck:checked this. index f is actually the second cam from the motor i believe, as there are 2 index cams. the motor run( as howardb outlined above) is orange/green, yellow, and white/blue. im tracing the white/blue as that's for my outhole relay circuit. yellow is supplying the power to the outhole relay, via the zero position switch on the ball count unit, and the outhole switch. so to bypass everything and make sure we have a good relay at least, shouldn't the relay engage when i take a jumper from the yellow cam wire off index f, and connect it to the blue/yellow going directly to the outhole relay coil?
Yes, exactly. This bypass should fire the relay. When it does, simply move the alligator clip from the motor Make/Break to the next possible culprit in the circuit (in this case R-W Credit Unit Zero Pos. Switch), and so on down the line until the outhole relay doesn't fire.
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Elgin, IL