Is it worth the hassle? Most definitely for that era of Williams. Most people never realize how many issues in that era come from leaf switches that were assembled incorrectly from the factory. A lot of them had one leaf upside down, which caused the back side of the rivet to wear off the gold plating, and thus require way too much cleaning to keep them functional.

-Hans

Nope, not bad repair, that was a factory screwup.

Bookmarking Just in case

Don't feel bad, Williams shipped tens of thousands of games in that condition.

-Hans

What screws did you use to anchor the switch bracket down?
#6 or #8 x 3/8" hex sheet metal? Thanks!

Cool, I actually just ended up reusing the screws on the old hardware. Either way the game is fun again, thanks!

Since you have done this to black knight, I'm considering the same for mine while I have the pf out, can you post a list of how many of what you ordered to do all of the switches for BK? Thank you swampfire!

Edit:
I just ordered 6 of each... I'll need more in the future, thank you for the how to!

Thanks for posting this!

Can you discuss the symptoms you were experiencing that led you to make such a drastic change? I'm missing some context.
thanks,
mof

HAHAHA your right, I never noticed that before.

UpsideDown.jpg

When you notice a switch is installed improperly, why not just take it apart, and reverse the part?

-mof

But then you won't have a BK LE.

Only other thing the LE had was the decal on the apron if I recall.

I know this is an older thread but I have a couple of questions. In post #2 , picture 4 shows the 2 microswitches with the diode bands oriented in different directions. Of the 2 microswitches, which one is correct? Shouldn't the diode band be oriented like the one in post #4 for all microswitches? Thanks.

Good eye catching that, but if will look again you will notice that the OP has the silver band facing the green wires in all cases which is correct.

Thanks for the reply GRUMPY. So the 4th picture in post #2 is correct?

Williams is not the only company that put the switch together wrong from the factory. I would say every classic Stern and most Bally's have leaf switch put together wrong.

Yes both switches even tho they are different from each other the band still goes to the green wires.

Understood. Thanks a bunch!

Stupid question will this set up work for the upper level multi-ball lock?

I may try this. I added capacitors to the outlane leaf switches on my Eight Ball Deluxe because they’re not reliable. It hasn’t helped. In fact, the caps are causing false triggering of the switches.

Why not reply EVERY extant leaf switch with microswitches?

It’s doable!

http://villagebbs.com/forum/index.php?topic=43065

I haven't heard anyone say anything about capacitors. Are they no longer needed with this mod? If needed, where do they go?

Black Knight doesn't use caps on the switches, but yeah if the regular switch you are replacing had them like on a Bally, you'd want them on the microswitches.

I’m wondering why you would not change to a MRS ( magnetic reed switch)?

I did replace the drop target switches and some trough switches on my BK with modern microswitches, the old leaf switches were worn out and I wanted much more reliability. It was also partly a BK/Sys7 design thing with the lower voltage the switches ran on, it doesn't like any dirt on the switch contacts.

But other than I've never had a reason to replace a leaf switch in any of my SS games, just need to clean one once in a blue moon, that's all.

$. They are more than 10x the price.

Does anyone have any pictures of the microswitches with the capacitors attached? Just want to know the correct placement.

You don’t need the capacitors on the microswitch. Only the diode.

https://villagebbs.com/forum/index.php?topic=43065

tktlwyr Thank you for the link, but it does not specifically say anything about capacitors. While it does show pictures of the microswitch with diode installed, it does not talk about capacitors. In the previous response to my question, frenchmarky states that capacitors would be needed. I am not trying to instigate a situation; I only want my Xenon to function properly, while using microswitches that are more reliable than leaf switches.
As it stands, I have 4 new microswitches installed. At the top, where the white button rollovers are located, I rebuilt the original leaf switches. These particular switches have a set-up that I haven't been able to find a solution to, in regards to replacing with microswitches. I bring this up, because after I had finished placing the new microswitches and rebuilt the other leaf switches, I received a closed switch error in test mode for the #3 rollover. Since it has been rebuilt with new parts, and gapped correctly, I know that it is something else--something in the switch matrix. This is why I am concerned about the capacitor. I rebuilt the original leaf switches with the correct replacement diodes and capacitors (where called out in the schematics).
Thank you all for the input. Again, I am only trying to get this machine functioning as it should.

I’m no expert on this, but my understanding is that the capacitors were added to switches that were in a position where they could see a very short activation time. Ie a star rollover.

Micro switches have a different position of activation (on) as compared to the position of deactivation(off). They sort of toggle. Play with the switch you will see what I’m trying to say. It’s difficult to activate the microswitch for only a split second.

I don’t think you need caps on the microswitch.

Try it without see what happens without them.

FYI. If you search micro switch on marco and pinballife you will find options that include the plastic mounting bracket and diode. Works good and cheaper. You can reverse the direction on them as well.

63AFC457-2E97-4F9A-AF05-243985F8B364 (resized).jpeg

I used those type microswitches on my BK's drops (with modifications to the wireforms) and elsewhere, they work perfectly. Easily available and what the industry is using now. I got a few extra but doubt I'll ever need to replace one.

I don't think caps on BK rollover or drop target switches would have any positive effect, as opposed to a Bally/Stern from the same era where they are often used to lengthen the closure on some switches. They read the switches differently. On BK you may have caps on switches that fire off the 'special' solenoids like the pop bumper switch but those work differently than the computer-controlled ones.

Agreed!

I'm building some games and wondering if anyone has done any upgrades to the star roll-over set-up at all with micro switches? Sonic your modern take on the Williams mrs switches are great but I'm talking 50 plus pf switches so the cost is not justifiable especially with our exchange rate.

Completely understand

That might be tough. The leaf switch has very little travel and is lightly sprung. A microswitch that would only move that much and still activate and deactivate reliably and with not too much pressure and hang the ball up on the button? Well who knows maybe there is one. A new leaf switch usually fixes things. The magnetic switches sound good for this if you can't get a regular super-quick closure switch to be reliable in the game.

Yes I might have to make up some reed switches for testing. I do have a few of the original Williams ones.