(Topic ID: 201557)

Guardians of the Galaxy is here!


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 4260 posts in this topic. You are on page 62 of 86.
#3051 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

It can be excused once, MAYBE twice, but GotG is the THIRD time Stern pins have shipped without even 1.00 feature complete software in the last 12 months, and TWO of them (B'66 and GotG) were essentially Alpha software, not even Beta). That's not unforeseen circumstances, it's poor management and planning. It's literally never happened before.

I agree. its poor planning.

Im not suggesting it be excused. I am saying, "wait".

I was sharing why it may have been released.
I think Stern and Pinsiders understand it was too early in the code.

Its more, "The Game sucks, because it was released with early code...and/or, I watched the Stream."

Yup, early code, got it. Having played 20 games now or so......

It looks Great, It shoots great.

#3052 1 year ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I agree. its poor planning.
Im not suggesting it be excused. I am saying, "wait".
I was sharing why it may have been released.
I think Stern and Pinsiders understand it was too early in the code.
Its more, "The Game sucks, because it was released with early code...and/or, I watched the Stream."
Yup, early code, got it. Having played 20 games now or so......
It looks Great, It shoots great.

Stop being logical with your "looks great, shoots great, lets see if the code comes along and maybe get one". You got to get pissed and have a little fit about it.

#3053 1 year ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Agreed....and imagine how bad this would be if we couldn't update via USB and still had to use ROMs instead.....

Thunderbirds

#3054 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

What's a Racoon ?

Yeah, Rocket's a trash panda.

#3055 1 year ago

I made a trip with my wife this afternoon to go play a GOTG Pro on location about a half hour from home. There was a lot to like for us. The code is indeed pretty bare bones at this point but when it is polished up it should be a fun game. My only gripe was the operator had the tilt set so damn tight that every time we got a multi ball, just firing the flippers to keep all 4 balls in play would tilt out the machine. I managed to get to about 100,000 score before the tilt shut me down.

As a Met Premium owner I don’t mind the similarities. The wife is sold on theme alone. I will wait for some updates then decide if we will pull the trigger and bring one home. Hope to find another on location game that is set a bit looser so I can actually play the thing to get a better feel for the flow. The left out lane is treacherous when you can’t even breathe on the game without a tilt.

I did however dump about $30 in before I couldn’t deal with the constant tilts anymore.

#3056 1 year ago
Quoted from JB-7X:

I made a trip with my wife this afternoon to go play a GOTG Pro on location about a half hour from home. There was a lot to like for us. The code is indeed pretty bare bones at this point but when it is polished up it should be a fun game. My only gripe was the operator had the tilt set so damn tight that every time we got a multi ball, just firing the flippers to keep all 4 balls in play would tilt out the machine. I managed to get to about 100,000 score before the tilt shut me down.
As a Met Premium owner I don’t mind the similarities. The wife is sold on theme alone. I will wait for some updates then decide if we will pull the trigger and bring one home. Hope to find another on location game that is set a bit looser so I can actually play the thing to get a better feel for the flow. The left out lane is treacherous when you can’t even breathe on the game without a tilt.
I did however dump about $30 in before I couldn’t deal with the constant tilts anymore.

Game is good and will be freaking great with the updates!! Good write up!

#3057 1 year ago

We obviously have different tastes. I really enjoy the following games. What did they screw up here? ALL GREAT TITLES....
Ghostbusters... Great game
Aerosmith... Good game
Star Wars... Great Game
Walking Dead...Great Game
AC DC VE... Great Game
Metallica.. Great Game
Spider Man VE... Great Game
Game of Thrones...Good game

So what is the issue? All of these games are great games. I own most of them and they have given me ZERO problems. Not sure why all of the stern bashing still exists. Quality control. All of my games are great quality. Tell me one manufacture that is immune to issues. If you do not like there code or art or theme don't buy it. But when someone is pleased with there purchase why do some people feel the need to be rude and hateful.

I might add all of these games bring very strong resale values. That also should be a good sign that people are pleased with these games.

GOTG is no exception. In some classes it is better then some of these mentioned titles. Code will be here soon and all of the
"na-sayers" will miss out on yet another great stern game. Your loss.

#3058 1 year ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Custom call outs by Rocket the Racoon are going to be hilarious. And Groot mouth will talk/move like Funhouse Rudy when code gets fleshed out.

Sounds awesome

Buuuuuut I will believe it when I see it... and based on historical data I might not see it for a long time.

Rocket = Bradley Cooper. Did Stern hire Bradley Cooper or one of the X-Men voice actors?

#3059 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

Sounds awesome
Buuuuuut I will believe it when I see it... and based on historical data I might not see it for a long time.
Rocket = Bradley Cooper. Did Stern hire Bradley Cooper or one of the X-Men voice actors?

"Hey jackasses, Ronan is destroying that MRD facility!"

#3060 1 year ago

Anyone posted the current code for download?
My friends Game needs a code refresh to fix a Game issue but no place to get code yet.
Thanks Stern

#3061 1 year ago

I would think the LE will ship with updated code in a few weeks..

#3062 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

Sounds awesome
Buuuuuut I will believe it when I see it... and based on historical data I might not see it for a long time.
Rocket = Bradley Cooper. Did Stern hire Bradley Cooper or one of the X-Men voice actors?

You just need to stick with Golden Tee Curly. Can’t F that up for analites

Woohoo! Party time ladies, life, love and happiness!

It’s hammer time and code is just a state of mind. Remember that!

And don’t let the bastards wear you down. Wear them down

#3063 1 year ago

When do domestic LEs go on the line?

#3064 1 year ago

Well I just watched the Dead Flip stream and GOTG is a little bare bones on the code but it’s certainly not as bad as some people here are acting like. It kinda reminds me of AS which is pretty much what I expected since they have the same coder doing both games. Nice light show and most importantly it’s a great shooting game and looks to be a lot of fun. It definitely needs some call outs in the worst way but I have no doubt that they will come soon. If I had to grade it I’d grade it like this for right now.

Theme, artwork, and playfield design-A+
Code-C

My personal opinion is this game is worth buying right now and it will get better with code and end up being a keeper.

#3065 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You just need to stick with Golden Tee Curly. Can’t F that up for analites
Woohoo! Party time ladies, life, love and happiness!
It’s hammer time and code is just a state of mind. Remember that!
And don’t let the bastards wear you down. Wear them down

When are you going to do the right thing & order a GT?

GT makes life better.

#3066 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

When are you going to do the right thing & order a GT?
GT makes life better.

GT induces narcolepsy.

#3067 1 year ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

When do domestic LEs go on the line?

I was told it should ship before Christmas

#3068 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

GT induces narcolepsy.

Lol, I’ve never played Golden Tee believe it or not but I love a good golf video game. I would like to try it sometime to see how much I like it.

#3069 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yeah, Rocket's a trash panda.

Is that worse?

1ownf1 (resized).jpg

26
#3070 1 year ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Lower your expectations and be thankful....

This has to be in the top 10 saddest things I’ve ever read on Pinside.

#3071 1 year ago
Quoted from ASOA:

I own most of them and they have given me ZERO problems

Hasn't seen it himself... so must question and insist those who have... A textbook example of

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal

-1
#3072 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Hasn't seen it himself... so must question and insist those who have... A textbook example of
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal

I own most... I have put tons of time on all games I referenced. The other 2 I don't own or operate I have friends of mine who have owned since release. All have no issues.

Perhaps you should stop being such a text book dic*******

12
#3073 1 year ago
Quoted from ASOA:

I own most... I have put tons of time on all games I referenced. The other 2 I don't own or operate I have friends of mine who have owned since release. All have no issues.
Perhaps you should stop being such a text book dic*******

It's classic Pinside.
Find any defect on a Stern pin that should be replaced, and announce to the forum that this is standard Stern quality for everything they do.
When any Pinsider defends Stern, stating evidence of owning multiple machines, with zero issues, they get labelled a Stern-shill, or fan-boy.

Seriously. If co-workers started squawking at me that I shouldn't enjoy pinball, I'd be well within my rights to contact HR or tell them where the F to go, cause it's none of their business. On Pinside, it's more common than not, to having multiple anti-Stern trolls show up in any thread celebrating a new game release, and it's back to the usual argument about quality issues, code, etc. Most of my real life pin-buddys are spending less and less time on here lately which is a sad statement for Pinside.

#3074 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Lol, I’ve never played Golden Tee believe it or not but I love a good golf video game. I would like to try it sometime to see how much I like it.

Golden Tee is a game where you see who can hit the control panel the hardest without breaking their wrist.

And loser of every third hole buys a round of shots.

#3075 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Maybe I'll pick up a PS4 this weekend. They're less than $200 everywhere this weekend. Just put that into perspective. You could buy a Switch, Xbox One, PS4, and like 100 games between them for LESS than a pinball machine. It's not unreasonably to expect a finished quality game from Stern. Eventually the sycophants will run dry.

I play FPS on my PC right now Fallout 4 and Doom, I have a Xbox one, PS4, just sold my Wii U but a switch is inevitable in the near future so I agree with ya, I wish Stern could release with final code or very near as they did with SW, hopefully it takes a few months and not a year plus to finish the game but time will tell.

#3076 1 year ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Golden Tee is a game where you see who can hit the control panel the hardest without breaking their wrist.
And loser of every third hole buys a round of shots.

Is it any better than a good golf game on a console or a computer though? I know it’s very popular and I’m wondering why? I’ve seen people play it but never really paid any attention to it before. What’s the big attraction to it?

#3077 1 year ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

It's classic Pinside.
Find any defect on a Stern pin that should be replaced, and announce to the forum that this is standard Stern quality for everything they do.
When any Pinsider defends Stern, stating evidence of owning multiple machines, with zero issues, they get labelled a Stern-shill, or fan-boy.
Seriously. If co-workers started squawking at me that I shouldn't enjoy pinball, I'd be well within my rights to contact HR or tell them where the F to go, cause it's none of their business. On Pinside, it's more common than not, to having multiple anti-Stern trolls show up in any thread celebrating a new game release, and it's back to the usual argument about quality issues, code, etc. Most of my real life pin-buddys are spending less and less time on here lately which is a sad statement for Pinside.

Better be careful Chambahz or you will get accused of working for Stern! They will start saying that we work together next thing you know. I wouldn’t mind working for Stern truthfully if it wasn’t so close to Jack Dangers house. I’m afraid I’d end up in trouble if me and Jack started hanging out drinking together or I’d end up having liver failure or something like that. I bet that old cheap b@stard Gary wouldn’t pay me anything anyways, you know how awful of a person he is!

#3078 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Is it any better than a good golf game on a console or a computer though? I know it’s very popular and I’m wondering why? I’ve seen people play it but never really paid any attention to it before. What’s the big attraction to it?

It's a decent game, I'm not super into golf games so I don't really have anything to compare it to console or PC wise.

I more enjoy the social aspect of it than the actual gameplay. I know some people who do take it seriously though and will only play at bars with the most current years game, etc...

#3079 1 year ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Find any defect on a Stern pin that should be replaced, and announce to the forum that this is standard Stern quality for everything they do.
When any Pinsider defends Stern, stating evidence of owning multiple machines, with zero issues, they get labelled a Stern-shill, or fan-boy.

You have it wrong..

It's more like
- People see similar issues on multiple games... from multiple runs... A logical person says "hrm, clearly not a one off"
- Others say "my game doesn't have that issue, so you must be exaggerating or a hater"

The lack of consistency is a concern... but Team Ancedote comes in and acts like it's a big fascade or campaign to hate on Stern because THEY'VE never experienced it, so clearly others are just biased.

Its only when people try to make universal "it happens to every game" type of stupid claims that Team Ancedote even has a defense. Yes, it doesn't happen to every game, but that doesn't mean its not happening.

Sometimes it's like watching 8yr olds argue in here.

#3080 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yeah, Rocket's a trash panda.

I thought he was a triangle-faced monkey?
Or is he a dumb puppy?

Side note- I’m not going to buy a NIB Stern after the GBLE situation I had, but when GOTG starts poppping up in the used market I’m in! Very impressed so far.

#3081 1 year ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Golden Tee is a game where you see who can hit the control panel the hardest without breaking their wrist.
And loser of every third hole buys a round of shots.

FYI hard control panel hits = amateur

Usually

#3082 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Is it any better than a good golf game on a console or a computer though? I know it’s very popular and I’m wondering why? I’ve seen people play it but never really paid any attention to it before. What’s the big attraction to it?

To answer your last question: you get to choose from a bunch of different courses so it's never the same. When you have a shot to play, you choose whichever club you want, you decide how much you want to curve the ball in either direction, you can put backspin or not on your shot and you can hit a shot with any degree of strength you want. This is all done with a few buttons and the ball. If you go to a bar you can actually play live on line tournaments where you win real money.
It's very easy to get hooked on this game.

#3083 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You have it wrong..
It's more like
- People see similar issues on multiple games... from multiple runs... A logical person says "hrm, clearly not a one off"
- Others say "my game doesn't have that issue, so you must be exaggerating or a hater"
The lack of consistency is a concern... but Team Ancedote comes in and acts like it's a big fascade or campaign to hate on Stern because THEY'VE never experienced it, so clearly others are just biased.
Its only when people try to make universal "it happens to every game" type of stupid claims that Team Ancedote even has a defense. Yes, it doesn't happen to every game, but that doesn't mean its not happening.
Sometimes it's like watching 8yr olds argue in here.

Agreed. I'm wrong. You win.
Now if you don't mind, the door's over there. Please excuse yourself to the other threads discussing Stern quality and issues, where your comments are welcome. This one is celebrating the GoTG new release from Stern.

#3084 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well I just watched the Dead Flip stream and GOTG is a little bare bones on the code but it’s certainly not as bad as some people here are acting like. It kinda reminds me of AS which is pretty much what I expected since they have the same coder doing both games. Nice light show and most importantly it’s a great shooting game and looks to be a lot of fun. It definitely needs some call outs in the worst way but I have no doubt that they will come soon. If I had to grade it I’d grade it like this for right now.
Theme, artwork, and playfield design-A+
Code-C
My personal opinion is this game is worth buying right now and it will get better with code and end up being a keeper.

WTF dude! Nothing like Aerosmith as that was almost complete. GOTG code is barely playable. It flat out sucks and should have been delayed a bit. A C really? It's an F. Code is so pathetic it's inexcusable. Most people are saying this is why Stern should release two new titles per year. They cannot keep up like this GOTG as is is horrible. If you love it, I'll sell you mind at 5200.00 which is a 200 loss or about $20 per game. I've played less than 10 games, maybe 9 and think the code is really terrible.

Anyone thinking about this pin should buy something else like BM66 which is finally really fun. GOTG is months away from resembling fun. It's unfinished garbage code is laughable.

Anyone reading this has been warned as the game is really unplayable as is.

#3085 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

WTF dude! Nothing like Aerosmith as that was almost complete. GOTG code is barely playable. It flat out sucks and should have been delayed a bit. A C really? It's an F. Code is so pathetic it's inexcusable. Most people are saying this is why Stern should release two new titles per year. They cannot keep up like this GOTG as is is horrible. If you love it, I'll sell you mind at 5200.00 which is a 200 loss or about $20 per game. I've played less than 10 games, maybe 9 and think the code is really terrible.
Anyone thinking about this pin should buy something else like BM66 which is finally really fun. GOTG is months away from resembling fun. It's unfinished garbage code is laughable.
Anyone reading this has been warned as the game is really unplayable as is.

thanks for the honest review after having the game and playing it. There are way too many people that will defend a game just because they own it. Refreshing to see when someone can tell it like they see it, even if it means the game is a dud and they will lose money on the resale.

#3086 1 year ago

I heard from a Stern rep that GOTG code update is expected in a couple weeks...then decide if its a dud, terrible, laughable, etc....
Early code = Early opinions.

-22
#3087 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

They cannot keep up like this GOTG as is is horrible. If you love it, I'll sell you mind at 5200.00 which is a 200 loss or about $20 per game. I've played less than 10 games, maybe 9

I want to see you post your GOTG pro for sale for 5200. For one I do not think you will do it because you like everyone else knows stern will deliver on this games code and it will be a great game. Pinside marketplace. Post it someone will buy it from you very quickly at close to what you paid for it. You do not deserve the game. Not sure why you even have it. Perhaps just to complain? Please post your for sale thread here..... We will buy your unwanted game.

Do you really like your profile picture?

#3088 1 year ago
Quoted from ASOA:

You do not deserve the game.

#3089 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

Anyone reading this has been warned as the game is really unplayable as is.

Can I assume you are an operator and that this gaming isn't earning very well due to code? otherwise why the hell did u buy it right away.

#3090 1 year ago

So many people want the new shiny toy. If people keep jumping in day 1(take my money now) on unfinished pins nothing will ever change from stern.

#3091 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

WTF dude! Nothing like Aerosmith as that was almost complete. GOTG code is barely playable. It flat out sucks and should have been delayed a bit. A C really? It's an F. Code is so pathetic it's inexcusable. Most people are saying this is why Stern should release two new titles per year. They cannot keep up like this GOTG as is is horrible. If you love it, I'll sell you mind at 5200.00 which is a 200 loss or about $20 per game. I've played less than 10 games, maybe 9 and think the code is really terrible.
Anyone thinking about this pin should buy something else like BM66 which is finally really fun. GOTG is months away from resembling fun. It's unfinished garbage code is laughable.
Anyone reading this has been warned as the game is really unplayable as is.

Care to share what version code your game got shipped with? Maybe its v0.000001 and it really is as terrible as you say it is.

As for speaking the "truth" your comments lack any specific info on why you don't like it and at this point sounds more like gutteral rhetoric.

Games I've played were v0.66 and as mentioned before from shots and mode point of view has a lot there at release (Besides the obvious of call outs, video, etc.) It's not subjective - anyone on v0.66 can list in detail all the code present. Even little nuances like using the action button are programmed - i.e. do i use it right away? Hold it for MB? Hit it at the beginning of mode start so i can go to the scoop for upgrade/crank it up? Do i go for a mode shot or try to light my action button, etc?

Everyone is entitle to get pissed off, whatever, but lets keep some facts straight and maybe point out some specifics instead of just rehashing "sucks" over and over again. Your posts make it sound like the game barely functions.

Please keep in mind also, Im not saying I love the game, I'm not saying I hate it. I'm just trying to post objective information.

#3092 1 year ago
Quoted from fishmanrob:

So many people want the new shiny toy. If people keep jumping in day 1(take my money now) on unfinished pins nothing will ever change from stern.

Yeah but AS and SW shipped with good solid code on day 1 and didn't take that long to finish up, I wish they could be consistent but I also don't mind waiting for code to mature.

#3093 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Yeah but AS and SW shipped with good solid code on day 1 and didn't take that long to finish up, I wish they could be consistent but I also don't mind waiting for code to mature.

Sw did NOT ship with good solid code day 1.

-17
#3094 1 year ago

Up vote Down vote. Don't even care anymore. It's all BS! I speak the truth as I see it. If you don't like it then that's your problem. I have enough friends.

#3095 1 year ago
Quoted from T-800:

Care to share what version code your game got shipped with? Maybe its v0.000001 and it really is as terrible as you say it is.
As for speaking the "truth" your comments lack any specific info on why you don't like it and at this point sounds more like gutteral rhetoric.
Games I've played were v0.66 and as mentioned before from shots and mode point of view has a lot there at release (Besides the obvious of call outs, video, etc.) It's not subjective - anyone on v0.66 can list in detail all the code present. Even little nuances like using the action button are programmed - i.e. do i use it right away? Hold it for MB? Hit it at the beginning of mode start so i can go to the scoop for upgrade/crank it up? Do i go for a mode shot or try to light my action button, etc?
Everyone is entitle to get pissed off, whatever, but lets keep some facts straight and maybe point out some specifics instead of just rehashing "sucks" over and over again. Your posts make it sound like the game barely functions.
Please keep in mind also, Im not saying I love the game, I'm not saying I hate it. I'm just trying to post objective information.

Sure mine has v 0.65 and I do not deserve such an awesome game. I have no qualms about my Lonnie on code bias as I've gotten rid of most of his games. Avengers Hulk will be next. I just put a cliffy on GOTG today. I currently do not like the game as is. I once had a Firepower where the sound didn't work and until it got fixed I wasn't loving it. Now I tell people Firepower is awesome.

ASOA, you are something to behold. I think I'm just going to ignore your posts as you bring nothing to the table.

I have bought every Stern game since Tron NIB. Even WWELE which I did not love either. It was a mess. Right now GOTG is a mess. It's worse than Xmen upon release. I tell it how it pretty much is. Not a fanboy, but I admit I'm biased towards disliking Lonnie coded games. I still have some, but they will not last.

ASOA, If you want it, come with 5200 cash. P.M. me as I'm ignoring your future posts.

#3096 1 year ago
Quoted from waspinat0r:

Sw did NOT ship with good solid code day 1

I think it did, I enjoyed it right from the start then the addition of Light Saber mode and some bug fixes she was greatness, imo anyway.

#3097 1 year ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I heard from a Stern rep that GOTG code update is expected in a couple weeks...then decide if its a dud, terrible, laughable, etc....
Early code = Early opinions.

This is the sum of it. It's so true as in a few weeks I could be loving the game. It has great shots, just not feeling it as playing without call outs is not fun in my opinion. Gomez said they will be quick to fix and update code.

I'm stuck wishing I would have waited as I wanted to say no, but there's something about it (probably the awesome art) that made me say yes, it was a last minute decision.

#3098 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

Sure mine has v 0.65 and I do not deserve such an awesome game. I have no qualms about my Lonnie on code bias as I've gotten rid of most of his games. Avengers Hulk will be next. I just put a cliffy on GOTG today. I currently do not like the game as is. I once had a Firepower where the sound didn't work and until it got fixed I wasn't loving it. Now I tell people Firepower is awesome.
ASOA, you are something to behold. I think I'm just going to ignore your posts as you bring nothing to the table.
I have bought every Stern game since Tron NIB. Even WWELE which I did not love either. It was a mess. Right now GOTG is a mess. It's worse than Xmen upon release. I tell it how it pretty much is. Not a fanboy, but I admit I'm biased towards disliking Lonnie coded games. I still have some, but they will not last.
If you want it, come with 5200 cash. P.M. me as I'm ignoring your future posts.

Thanks for the context. Knowing you don't like Lonnie games and that Firepower went from zero to hero with just fixing the audio says a lot. No surprise that you don't like GOTG.

Based on the streams' obvious lack of audio clips and the fact that it IS lonnie code I can't believe you bought one in the first place.

Ps. Doubt it will change your mind, but I've heard v0.66 has quite a bit more effects and "immersion" than v0.65. (Not that you can get it though!) What I do think is BS is that they shipped some games with v0.66 code and some with less and don't have v0.66 available for download. That sucks.

#3099 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

This is the sum of it. It's so true as in a few weeks I could be loving the game. It has great shots, just not feeling it as playing without call outs is not fun in my opinion. Gomez said they will be quick to fix and update code.
I'm stuck wishing I would have waited as I wanted to say no, but there's something about it (probably the awesome art) that made me say yes, it was a last minute decision.

Not to be a dick, but you have nobody to blame but yourself for not even having enough patience to wait until you watched the Dead Flip stream. I guess the early bird doesn't always get the worm after all does he?

#3100 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Not to be a dick, but you have nobody to blame but yourself for not even having enough patience to wait until you watched the Dead Flip stream. I guess the early bird doesn't always get the worm after all does he?

I feel like this is about 80% of pinside. Many seem to have ADD and lack any kind of patience for anything.

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Hey there! Got a moment?

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