LE sales are going to be poor on this one. Most of the people that I know that have been LE buyers are getting a premium or pro because of that fugly armor. Sad part is stern did try to step it up a little on this one with art blades and a shaker. Not enough to justify $3200 or $1300 in difference. The game looks great though and is going to play awesome!!

It will be their demise. People are sick if all the issues and Stern causes all of them. I agree to some extent.

The games should be made so they are all coded the same. Stern could sell the upgrades on their site for some things.

No issue with three magnets on premium and LE. They could write the same code to work on either model.

It's funny as they charge so much more for the premium and they never code anything to really take advantage of it as it's always onto the next.

Star Trek side lights, Aerosmith upper playfield, the list goes on and on.

Well, it seems no awesome soundtrack and no voices from movie? Marvel sound a-likes.

So, much will depend on what clever people can do with pinball browser in the future.

I know it costs more money but if Stern had got licensing to music/actors etc, this would have been a total hit ( with or without spinner )

“Hard core anal pinheads”
Sorry but that just doesn’t sound right Iceman!

It was/is pure crap on X-Men and avengers. Imagine taf with studio voices.

First I have heard this. Source?

Feature matrix indicates: HD video scenes from the original film associated with game play modes

Now this could be like JJPOTC where they can only show scenes without faces; but I was hopeful we could see more than peoples backsides. Except in the case of Gamora because she has a nice ass.

No differentiation is going to be free - they will all cost something in terms of times, materials, complexity, stocking.. something. The point is to pick ones that actually achieve the goal of differentiation and do so in a way that the net works out for the better.

The bigger the differences... the more they serve as differentiation and that's the whole point to start with. If its purely cosmetic as you advocate... then it becomes harder to justify prices and harder to steer customers where you want.

Again, no differentiation comes free.. but software is easy to differentiate and when done right, it's a cost that goes down as you build more games. Spending 3 more days to code something in, is done once... and the gain is realized on every future game built. Software is easy to manipulate.

And I disagree about the ecto goggles.. they are what they are.

And why the need to appreciate different games as the same game? Should CGC have neutered AFM for the motivation of "we want to ensure we its the same as AFM... no more, no less"? Do you appreciate two Stern games playing the same, even if different titles?

If they are the same title.. and play the same.. its harder to convince someone to pay more. Which at the end of the day.. is your goal.

Pinside hates car anaologies... but its because they are true. A V6 edition of a car can be very different from a V8 version of the car - they don't shove the V8 in every model because they want to hit certain price points or satisfy different customer interests. That is not wrong - that is product diversity. It's not a stupid cost model - its a proven one.

You can believe in the JJP 'just make the best game you can' model... and that's fine. But you are also going to face having to deal with difficulties hitting different price points. The "build only premium" product strategy is valid to choose.. but that doesn't invalidate the value or worth of a tiered product model.

You want premium games... fine. But what do you do when a customer comes to you and says "I would rather sacrafice that.. and get this". You tell them "you aren't our target customer". Not all businesses want to do that.

I think it's the similar to POTC. There will probably be some scenes of spaceships, Rocket, Groot but I don't think you will see Chris, Zoe or Dave on screen.

So... we don't know for sure yet but if they can't use actors' voices then who will be saying "I am Groot?" Anybody other than Vin wouldn't sound right to me. Pinball Browser to the rescue in that case.

You're dead on. He just wants everyone to pick HIS strategy. Which is JJP.. which is fine.. he can buy those products. He's not willing to think beyond his himself or his interests.

Not going to apologize for the way I feel about it.

Just like MET, every collector I know with a Pro has gone throught the considerable expense and difficulty of installing spinners on their game, myself included. Everyone complained about it. Nobody I know that wasn't already inclined to by a premium/LE bought one just because it had spinners, they just hacked together some spinners as best they could on their pro.

So now Stern does the same thing with GotG. Maybe when they were copy and pasting the Metallica playfield layout they forgot to add spinners back to the Pro version.

It feels like Stern removes the spinners from the Pro just to spite the pro buyers. It's not justifiable as a material cost savings. It's just done to make them feel bad, basically. That's abusive behavior in my book.

And yes, no one is forced to buy the game, and no, I won't be buying the game. Just providing my perspective in the faint hope that someday it might move the yardstick in a positive direction. And if not, it's here, "for the record".

Product differentiation and pricing strategies are not soley driven by BOM.

Your prices need to support your BOM and margin strategy... your BOM does not define your prices or margin strategy.

"it only costs them $5" - the voice of someone who never has done product management or development.

What you charge is not about what it costs - its about what achieves the right balance of volume, margin, and market tolerance.

If you can't accept that reality - you will be bitter shopper forever.

I didn't. But I would in a hot second if they were supported by the code.

Stern should have tried to justify the LE pricing by adding something more than just different armor, blades, and a shaker. I'm happy they stepped up and added the shaker and blades (big move on their part), but they could have done so much more...i.e. upgraded glass, maybe an extended warranty, external volume and head phone jack ....if they added those other components I would bet they would sell out fast....

Sure. But when a large portion of your customer base makes it clear that ripping spinners out of the pro is not making them happy, I'd argue that is a clear indication that "the right balance" hasn't been found, in this case.

Someone earlier mentoned a spinner mod as a solution (already done as a mod on other Stern games)? How did it work? Was it be setup to award points and make sounds when you hit it?

I was fortunate to have bought Tron Pro and IMVE for $9600 nib delivered

That’s great deal for those pins and I could have Met pro and TWD pro for the same or less depending on the deals.

I just got a second hand RR Woz with RadCals got a good deal so I didn’t pay full retail but had got price quote for nib and it was around $9600 iirc.

I’m not saying the best Woz is as good as two excellent Stern Pro pins but I can say that the Woz machine is exquisitely built and I can feel and see the extra qualit with JJP games at least Woz.

Contrast that with BM66 LE or SLE which cost 2x or 3x what I paid for Tron Pro it just doesn’t seem like that much extra quality going into the higher price Stern pins.

So you offer different product tiers based on functional differences and needs... and let me guess.. the price differences aren't purely the true cost differences.

"only meaningful to peoples' individual circumstances" - you mean... offering choices to fit the customer's desires/needs? Hrmm.. sounds shocking like.. offering tiered products!

Your analogy is poor because clearly for the application you are citing.. one feature set can fit all within your margin needs.

My post you commented on stands true - Your price isn't defined solely by the material cost. If you do that for your main revenue streams.. you're pricing is either in a highly competitive, low margin market... or you're missing out. Luxury/exccess products are not priced the same as utilitarian, commodity products. BOM is only a piece of the puzzle... and what kind of market you are selling in will dictate how significant it is.

They get the music in there somehow, they sell me

Yeah, because everyone (most) want to play with headphones on (LOL!).
I have headphones on my much of the time connected to my cell phone so I'm the exception,
but most don't even have wired headphones anyone in the a bluetooth world.
Better would be a bluetooth option for pinball haha.

This reminds me of Apple's strategy on pricing based on storage capacity - e.g. 16GB is 300, 32 GB is 400, 64 GB is 500 for the same model otherwise. It costs nowhere near $100 to add that amount of memory but they know people will pay it.

I've been ripping the spinner on my Aero Pro for the last 10 minutes.

This must be a great machine if the only thing people can bitch about is Stern's Pro vs. Premium strategy!

The differentiation is about the sum of the parts. You could take any one piece and say the same thing... people would want that one piece. It's difficult to make any one piece a solid differentiator... so you use a collection of features.

Most arguments I've seen over the years for this is purely the "man, that only costs X!!" instead of "I don't want to play a game if it didn't have spinners". It's people picking apart the decision to have different models more than it is about the feature itself IMO.

Ordered a Premium yesterday. Really into this layout. May sell my Scared Stiff or Funhouse fund it not sure.

The Truth is that the LE trim color scheme is basically the Thanos Edition style of trim...

1ThanosLEgotg (resized).png

K man podcast!

X-Men's voices were terrible, but to be fair - they weren't trying to imitate the movie actors.

Avengers is a mixed bag. Their fake Thor, Loki, and Hulk were very good IMO. Cap, IM, Widow were bad

I think people forget how good the fake JARVIS was on Iron Man. Sounds exactly like Paul Bettany.

It should not be hard to get very good sound-alikes for Rocket & Drax...those would be great custom character voices to make fun of the player & add tons of humor.

It's a total stretch but I'd love John C. Reilly as a custom voice....

Well, its safe to say then that Stern keeps attempting to create a larger profit margin by reducing features and quality. At these prices there's not an excuse for that and it won't stop until sales slow.

Asking for a $5 spinner on a $5500 game that heavily resembles Metallica yet has all plastic ramps instead of metal ones is not asking much.

I can accept that this is reality, as will others by just not choosing to buy the game.

Generically sure, but in this case, enough people identified the removal of the spinners in MET as a major annoyance that if I was Stern's product manager I would take that feedback and keep the spinners in from them on, because it's a very inexpensive way for me to make the Pro buyers feel good about buying their games, and also a cheap way to show that I'm listening to feedback. I don't know anybody who was annoyed that their Met Pro didn't come with a rising cross mech, or a physical ball lock. People focus on the low cost of the spinners because they went ahead and bought them for $20 each at pinball life.

If you KNOW that an important customer segment is sensitive to the removal of a feature, and it costs peanuts to keep it in the game, then do so.

Spinners! Don't mess with our spinners, man!

That wasn’t Paul Bettany in the Iron Man machine.......holy crap. I’ve owned the game for 2 years, I always assumed it was him.

I'm really stoked to see what the upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy indoor ROLLER COASTER will be like in Disney World's EPCOT which will be replacing Ellen's Energy Ride.

guar0874324 (resized).jpg

Fun fact: that was the code name for Star Wars during production

Put all the fun to play stuff on the cheap model! Put a bunch of non-interactive "bling" that half of the pinball community doesn't care about on the expensive model! Sit back and watch sales of your Premium machines plummet!

Great advice from the buyer's perspective. Lousy business advice for Stern.

Thought it was him also.

We’re talking about a f*cking spinner. The Hyperloop toy on SW is a great example of a Premium type of feature. Another great example is the left ramp popping up and revealing a zombie head on TWD. A spinner is an off the shelf pinball part. Find a better way to justify your price gouging.

Edit: The Groot hands are a great way to do it too by the way, but not a spinner.

Not true. People buying LE's are buying PURELY for the superficial extras. Extra mechs/lighting that make the game cooler is absolutely a selling point for Premiums/LEs. People love Met Pro, but Met Prem has done quite well. I love Met Prem/LE, even though the rising cross, hammer, and multi-color GI aren't necessary for gameplay. They make the game more "alive". Plenty of people will pay more for that extra life. I didn't just buy Met LE for the spinners lol...I'd be fine if those were on the Pro.

You mean the $8500 standard model? What do they put in their $5500 model?

Some people are talking about a spinner. Some people are talking about having zero difference in how the Pro and Premium/LE games play. Regardless, you don't have to like it but it's obvious why Stern would do this -- they need to make the Premium and LE more desirable. If it's got more stuff on the playfield, it's more desirable to many people.

JJP LEs (their mid-tier machine) are a different case. They're only 12% more expensive (vs a 33% jump from Stern Pro to Stern Premium) and they include stuff that's presumably somewhat expensive for JJP to add (shaker, invisiglass). That's great for the buyer, but how much additional profit do you think JJP makes on an LE sale vs a Standard? Can't be close to what Stern clears on a Premium sale vs a Pro. A better comparison would be sales of JJP's LE vs their CE (the % price increase is more similar, and the enhancements are more purely aesthetic and probably cheaper for JJP).

Again, you don't have to like the model or support it with purchases, but it makes business sense to try and incentivize all of your customers to step up a tier when they buy one of your games. Not just the buyers that are motivated by different playfield art or non-interactive toys.

this!

the difference should be in cosmetic, trims, backglass, PF support, different artwork, even shaker, topper.
not a $5 part, it's ridiculous and they have to change the code, something they already struggle with, lol.
things that are really worth it.

What's Next?, remove the pop bumpers, they don't do much anyway ''let's put rubber post instead, yeah let's do it''
One inlane at the top instead of 2 or 3, ''ball will fall down with only one anyway, yeah, yeah let's do it'' multipliers will be on the slingshots... if we don't remove them'' bah let them buy a premium if they want it''

where does it stop?

'' oh yeah, i got it, let put frickin giant hands on the pf that does ab-so-lu-te-ly nothing, except annoying the player... brillant''.

Actually you missed the point. JJP doesn't have a Pro model. They basically have a Premium and an LE. On DI they added a third level similar to the BM66 SLE.

Just because some "collectors" will buy anything with some gold paint and a number plate slapped on it doesn't mean you maximize profit that way. If you can sell substantially more of your mid-tier product by doing what Stern does (or to stoop to a cargument, offer an upgraded engine and not just leather seats on your LE), and the increased cost of adding and servicing those enhancements is offset by your increased profits, then why in the world wouldn't you?

People are still buying stern pros and the reaction to guardians has been excellent.

What is so hard to understand here?

If you want a game with spinners, but a premium. it’s still cheaper than an entry-level jjp.

We all keep missing each other’s points!!

im guessing you also think car manufactures should make the base model have all the same features as the highest model and the only thing the higher model should have is a fancy paint job, bigger wheels and a grill?

Edit: damnit fosaisu beat me to the cargument.

You guys with the idea that a spinner only costs a couple bucks, have no clue what the total hardware costs are. That one added spinner will require, the spinner hardware and I'm sure a NEW NODE board because any currently in the pro are being fully used. Along with additional wiring, install labor etc none of us know the true cost, but I can guarantee it isn't a couple dollars.

Look it's simple, Stern has a business model. Cheaper pros at a particular price point, then add features/value to get a premium and then add something to entice LE buyers. If you don't like it don't buy it, but quit trying to tell Stern how to run THEIR company. It's getting really old.

I know damn well they sell more pinballs, than any of you whiners trying to tell them how to run their company have ever sold...

The ends don't justify the means. It's never cool to piss off your customers if it can be easily avoided, something Stern has yet to realize.

Plenty of collectors in my area are done with Stern NiB purchases, and this is a recent development. Many of them would buy the latest games as soon as they were announced. No more. The chicken's are coming home to roost from what I can see.

Not a fan of the gold trim on the LE but it does have a mirrored backglass and they do look 100x better than translites.