(Topic ID: 250834)

UDN6118s and 7432 Chips

By 850mph

4 years ago


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#1 4 years ago

Hiya--

I've just taken my Black Hole and Haunted House out of a 25 year "mothball" state.

HH works BEAUTIFULLY-- No issues... And it has allowed me to swap Display units from one machine to another to determine that...

BH has a Display "Segment" problem in the STATUS Display unit, and Im gonna need to replace a/the chips on the Display Board.

Are the UDN6118s and 7432 Chips Soldered into the board or can they be removed without soldering?

Can the chips be removed with careful prying with a screwdriver or is there a special tool designed to remove the chip?

The machines are located in a summer home, and I realized that I can't just look at the boards TODAY and determine if the chips have sockets.

Also-

How many balls does the BH take?

The trough allows 5 balls-- but I think it only uses 3, yes?

THANKS.

850mph

#2 4 years ago

You would need to de-soldier all the legs of the IC and then pry it off. I would recommend installing a socket after that. BH takes 3 balls.

#3 4 years ago

Don't pry anything off. You'll likely lift traces if you do.

Either use a desoldering gun, solder wick, or a sucker. If you're replacing the chip you can cut all the legs and remove them individually.

https://nvram.weebly.com/ is usually a good source for parts. I don't know if he has what you need but he's an active Pinsider.

#4 4 years ago

I've (re) viewed Norm and Shaggy's "This Old Pinball" DVD's (which Ive had for maybe 15+ years)-- And they make replacing chips look easy.

Obviously, Im not swayed, and know its a hassle.

Any way to test the UDN6118s and 7432 Chips with a MM BEFORE I de-solder and replace?

Can anyone point me to a good Youtube video on testing BEFORE replacing?

Thnx--850mph

#5 4 years ago

You can test a 6118 to a limited degree with a multimeter:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#UDN6118_and_Other_Display_Logic_Chip_Failures

You can probe 7400 series chips for shorts, but otherwise, it usually has to be tested out of circuit.

I don't normally cut legs off the chips so I can test and verify a chip is bad, or reuse it if it's not bad. TerryB's soldering guide is a good place to start if you're not familiar with soldering/desoldering: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1

I use this tester for 7400 series chips: ebay.com link: sch

#6 4 years ago

Thnx for all those who replied...

ForceFlow, can you repost a link to the 7400 chip tester?

The link above gets me to a generic eBay page.

THNX-- 850mph

#7 4 years ago

This is NICE!!!

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:TestingUDN6118AndUDN7180.jpg

KUDOS to the pinwiki author.

Anything like the above exist for the 7432 chip?

THNX--850mph

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from Mombo-number-5:

You would need to de-soldier all the legs of the IC and then pry it off.

No prying. Properly desoldered the chip should fall out when you turn the board upside down.

#9 4 years ago

So I've watched a couple of "PCB" board repair vids on youtube....

Again, being away from my machine until Sunday...

Do the System 80 boards have chip-sockets or are the chips soldered directly to the boards?

Thnx-- 850mph

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from 850mph:

So I've watched a couple of "PCB" board repair vids on youtube....
Again, being away from my machine until Sunday...
Do the System 80 boards have chip-sockets or are the chips soldered directly to the boards?
Thnx-- 850mph

only thing socketed is the ROMs and maybe the CPU.

Quoted from 850mph:

This is NICE!!!
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:TestingUDN6118AndUDN7180.jpg
KUDOS to the pinwiki author.
Anything like the above exist for the 7432 chip?
THNX--850mph

rough and not a full proof test can be done. DMM on diode test. Red lead go to ground leg of chip. Black lead probe all input and outputs pins look for a typical diode voltage drop. If you find one leg that reads 0 or less than .2 or so its probably bad. If the chip is on the PCB you have to look to see if any of the inputs are unused and tied to ground which will make the DMM read 0 on diode test.

There are little stand alone chip testers that are really handy. Its nice to diagnose a problem, desolder the chip off of the board and then have chip tester declare that chip was indeed bad.

#11 4 years ago

barakandl-- Thanks.

Model? or better yet (PLEASE) link to "little stand alone" chip tester....???

Thnx--850mph

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from 850mph:

barakandl-- Thanks.
Model? or better yet (PLEASE) link to "little stand alone" chip tester....???
Thnx--850mph

this is the one I have.

ebay.com link: itm

There is some limitations to it like it can't test some of the rare oddball chips like 4562. Has trouble with at least some of the 74S chips like it declares working 74S138 as bad 'ERR'. It can't tell the difference between 4030 and 4070 and some other chips with a similar pin out.

One nice thing is it can tell the difference between 74(LS) and 74HC(T) chips. 74HC00 and 74HCT00 will test read out as 74HC00. 7400 and 74LS00 will read out as a 7400.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from 850mph:

The link above gets me to a generic eBay page.

Looks like the parser fouled up the link. Try this:

ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=multi+function+ic+led+optocoupler+lm399+dip+chip+tester

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Looks like the parser fouled up the link. Try this:
ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=multi+function+ic+led+optocoupler+lm399+dip+chip+tester

fixed it. that might not be the best price too. I don't think i paid that much for mine, look around.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

No prying. Properly desoldered the chip should fall out when you turn the board upside down.

Yes, they always fall right out, what was I thinking.

#16 4 years ago

Looks like there is a NEW IC tester on eBay for about the same price:

IC-Tester-74-40-45-Series-lC-Logic-Gate-Tester-Digital-Detection-IC-Series-Mete

Any advantage to this one vs the one you guys have recommended for testing 74XX chips??

Thnx.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from 850mph:

Looks like there is a NEW IC tester on eBay for about the same price:
IC-Tester-74-40-45-Series-lC-Logic-Gate-Tester-Digital-Detection-IC-Series-Mete
Any advantage to this one vs the one you guys have recommended for testing 74XX chips??
Thnx.

the one I linked can test dip24 wide chips like a 74145 and 4514 both used in pinball. That one looks like dip20 narrow is the largest package size that one can do but the software is more advanced and has a fancy screen.

#18 4 years ago

Yeah... I was always a SUCKER for a "fancy screen."

Ill step back... and go with your recommendation until I know what Im doing.

Thnx, much appreciated-- 850mph

#19 4 years ago

The tester works very good.
Just be sure to have a full battery, otherwise it will keep restarting very quickly.
Remove the battery when not using for a longer time.

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