Glad to hear pricing will likely remain the same as POTC.
$500 more for a JJP LE over a Stern LE is a bargain in my opinion. It's not just the extra features and build quality over a Stern that leads to more value but especially the extra code work that JJP puts into their games. At the end of the day all of these games are just a box of lights and how well a game is coded determines how well the theme is brought to life. JJP codes the hell out of their games and goes over the top with offering deep as well as unique rules that incorporate the best animation work.
Quoted from JY64:
People who pay $10,000 + for games are fools it's only pinball
See my post above please. Stern LE's are now $9k and on average come with a 1/4 of the code, half the featues, and half the build quality. Yes $9k, $10k, etc is a crap ton of money for a pinball machine but JJP at least tries to justify their prices (unless its YBR which I think we can both agree is a money grab lol).
Really intested to hear who JJP brought onboard for the games audio as well as callouts. With David Thiel now exclusively working at Deep Root for a period of I believe 3 years (contract) maybe JJP will bring back Chris Granner?
In regards to callouts what would work? Most or all of the actors that played the kids in the movie are still alive but now being older wouldn't sound anything like their characters. Gene Wilder has sadly passed away This means voice actors. Personally I think custom Ompa Lompa callouts could be cool, "...I've got another multiball for you" lol. That wouldn't be enough though. Maybe Willy Wonka callouts using a voice actor?
Quoted from FatPanda:
I think Oompa Loompa callouts for the entire game would get old quick. Definitely for a mode, but in small quantities only. I'm hoping it'll be a mix of movie audio clips, with a Gene Wilder voice actor for the main game callouts. I can only imagine what a Wilder "Jackpot!" callout would be like...
Yeah, hopefully they found someone who does a pretty close if not spot on Gene Wilder impression. I think that one is going to be hard to pull off. Gotta have him in there, would kinda be like WOZ not having the wizard voice actor in it for callouts.
Quoted from musketd:
My main things I was talking about was bob on a stick and the chick with the arm which is very dumb and also tired of all these extra lcd displays on the play field; they have on the display they should use more; I feel JJP has taken a step back on their displays since hobbit which is phenomenal
It's your opinion that those items are dumb. The QED toy moves across the playfield which is pretty cool and is a substantial toy that doesn't feel cheap. It's also used to super charge the phone for increased mode scoring which ads a fun risk reward element to the game.
The quantum mechanic toy is cool as it diverts the ball for several modes which can lead to increased scoring at the pops if you nudge at the right time on the mini upper playfield. Plus it just looks cool and fits the theme well.
I have both Dialed In and Hobbit and the mini LCD for the phone on Dialed In is coded as deeply, maybe more due to amount of custom animation work. The phone shows mode information for the 11 disaster modes, interacts with Bob modes, shows mode super charging status, multiball information, a variety of other animations, and contains what are easily the best custom character animations in pinball for each disaster mode. Oh and there's multiple character animations per disaster mode and each is synced perfectly to callouts for each character which there are also multiple of. Pretty damn amazing if you ask me.
Sorry but it seems like you and several others on here often like to crap on Dialed In due to its original theme and enjoy minimizing its features. It's old. Personally I hope Wonka has half the featues of Dialed In, it still amazes me how much they crammed into that game.
Quoted from westofrome:
They're having some sort of media tour of Wonka at 11 in the factory...curious to see if anything leaks.
Yeah heard something about that as well. I don't believe JJP has ever done something like that with a game before so it's cool to see they are trying a new strategy to increase marketing of a new game. Also must mean they are feeling very confident about the game performing well!
A person on the inside has come up with this highly detailed Microsoft Paint 1999 mock up of the game. Seems like there's a large boat toy from the chocolate river scene in the game that allows the player to lock different colored balls into the paddles of it, a "Candy" mini playfield in the upper left, and a large spinning "WONKA" bar in the middle. Only a left flipper on the bottom of the playfield as well, a first in pinball. Hmmmm?
I'll agree with Kaneda on this "JJP is driven by passion, Stern is driven by profit". Sounds like he is blown away by the game and thinks it will be JJP's best game to date.
Quoted from wesman:
Really happy to hear earnestness and joy from Kaneda simply playing a pinball game. That is exactly the spirit, spark, fire and fun that pinball can create, in such a significant and often all too elusive way!
I've felt bits of that every single time I've seen a JJP game, so congrats to all involved on hopefully making this as fun a reality as Kaneda and Joe had today!
Yay for Jack, Keith, and Pat and everyone involved!
I heard Kaneda mentioned something about being excited for Keith's code work. Keith is the lead on Pirates and at TPF Eric mentioned that Keith had been working on that games super wizard mode so he may still be working on Pirates (or both). Ted Estes is the lead on Dialed In and is likely the lead on Willy Wonka considering he wasn't the lead on Pirates. I would then expect for Keith to be the lead on the fall title JJP announces.
Both Keith and Ted have worked on each others games. I recall Keith saying something about work he did on Dialed In and Ted did a ton of work on the last few Hobbit updates that heavily improved it's code even though Keith is the lead for that game. I couldn't imagine having two better pinball programmers to work on a game then Keith Johnson and Ted Estes.
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:
It would be poetic justice, wouldn't it, if Kaneda's machine ends up having a dozen problems right out of the box? Not that I'd wish that upon anyone, but he's been whining and complaining about Pirates, and all of its supposed problems, for weeks on end. LOL!
Lol yup. Any early build game will be prone to issues and potential fixes needing be done after they are identified on the line in the months to come. Wonka won't be anything different. Personally I rather have a Wonka built a year from today rather than one of the first off the line.
I'm always surprised how some people hate the words "Dialed In". I think it's perfect for pinball as the phrase has likely been used by nearly everyone at one point or another when describing having a good game and or working on a machine. Out in daily life I hear the phrase maybe once a month by someone just talking about whatever and can't help to think "Yup, that ended up being a pretty good name after all for that game"
Quoted from rai:
This is the thing. Special K said Wonka is one of his dream themes so it’s easy to see him getting off on it. However theme is not the only thing as he pointed out on other games like SW which is arguably one of the best pinball themes but the game had good movie assets but very few toys it’s not a world under glass. Or Potc JJP nice toys but no movie assets.
I think with a great theme you still need toys, good code and good use of assets.
For me I liked Wonka when I was a kid but I don’t know it nearly as well as Woz which I’ve watched 20+ times. I’m going to watch Wonka again for the first time since I was a kid to see if it’s any good.
POTC does have some movie assets, just none featuring film actor audio and actor video, everything else including CGI characters apparently (lol) are fair game to go into into the pin. Thankfully JJP hired an actor from the films to do some great custom callout work.
I wonder if JJP goes full custom Oompa Loompa callouts for Wonka or seeked out a Gene Wilder sound-a-like for Wonka callouts? Maybe a combination of both. Seems like those are the only 2 characters that would work for pinball related callouts in the game.
Quoted from Aurich:
It's just another pinball, like every other new pin that people work themselves up into a lather over. It hasn't even been revealed and everyone is already selling their collections to buy it? Take a cold shower, calm down.
I hope it's great, innovative, exciting, all that and a bag of chips. Some will love it, some won't care, many will think it's too expensive either way. Pinside's hype and bust boom is getting out of control though, people need to take it down a notch.
Well said. I'm not selling any games personally, just a kidney lol. Figure I'll wait 6 months to a year and let all of the early hardware fixes and bugs work themselves out before considering buying one. I used to like getting games right when they came out but now don't mind waiting to get a later production build.
1 day to go!
Slugworth "$10,000 imagine what you could buy for your family"
Charlie "A Willy Wonka LE pinball machine!"
Slugworth "I was thinking good food and comfort for the rest of your families lives but I guess 10k doesn't get you as much in 2019"
Quoted from Aurich:
I'm sure JJP will do a good job with it. Even their least interesting game for me, Hobbit (playfield too wide open and just not enjoyable to shoot, not a fan of the movies), is a complete package. I have no doubt people who are excited for film clips and quotes and references and toys will be happy campers. I don't wish anyone disappointment, I'm not being sour on the company or excitement.
People clearly disagree with me on how the film has aged, and I don't want to sound like I don't like the movie, because I've seen it many times and I do. I guess after Dialed In had a polarizing reception nostalgia is the play again now. I just think original ideas offer much more of an unlimited palette than using a film we've all seen. Watching the bitching about Black Knight is just more evidence I'm off alone in the wilderness on this one, people want their licenses.
Yeah, I think it's just hard to please everyone today which may be a good thing considering so many people are entering the hobby. Some people will love Wonka as they like the theme, others will not enjoy it as the theme does nothing for them. The same person could then prefer Dialed In because it's a completely original design.
Quoted from greenhornet:
an observation was made by someone who played wonka last week that the mechs appeared to LESS complex than earlier JJP games and felt they would break down less, thus requiring less upkeep/maintenance. sounds pretty cool if a simpler game could captivate mainly on improvements in the areas of sculpts/plastics/visuals. IMHO, it would mean such games could have been made all along.
and as far as expectations for this game go...dont forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.
The less complex mech possibility is very interesting as while more reliable (anything that doesn't move as much will be) it may also represent a form of cost cutting. I hope that's not the case, can't really judge anything right now without seeing pictures / video and ultimately playing the game.
There's been complex mech's in a number of pins for 20+ years, the TZ gumball machine, the hand in TAF, etc. Today we have the large beast pop up mechs / Smaug in Hobbit, the monkey mech in WOZ, the ship in JJP POTC, etc. All require some tweaking now and again but all are fun toys to have in the game. If JJP wants to make their games more reliable on location games then I can see them scaling back the complexity a bit, just sucks that it means the price will remain the same or go up.
Quoted from iceman44:
The right answer i think is "as many as Jack can sell". i.e. Woz
500 on the CE.
Are there really 500 pin buyers of anything at $12,500?
500 CE's?! What a way to destroy the collectibility factor for CE owners. 500 used to be considered high for LE's and JJP blew past that. I always thought the whole CE and SLE concept was dumb but at least the counts were fairly limited (200 was pushing it for DI CE and Pirates CE). 500 though...no way. The LE model probably won't even be limited and if that's the case why even call it a limited edition model?
Quoted from iceman44:
I've never understood why JJP even calls it an "LE".
That's probably what I'll end up with though.
There is nothing "collectible" about 500 games i don't care what the title is, especially at $12,500.
However, i still can't see them selling more than 200-300 CE's anyhow.
Agree, at $12,500 JJP risks buyers losing a good amount in resale value if they go to sell the game as like you said how many people are going to buy $12,500 pinball machines. For Dialed In CE JJP JJP sold as many as orders placed by December 2016. I don't think that was a good idea as what happened if 300 or 400 sold? That didn't happen and the CE edition of Dialed In appears very rare, I've only seen one posted for sale, maybe less then 100 were made. For Pirates CE JJP limited the count to 200 and there's been rumors that due to production stopping only 50-100 were made. Even 200 was pushing it. 500 though just seems crazy. At those counts there's more likelihood of a bigger hit on depreciation.
It just sucks overall that the real limited editions are now the CE's @ $12,500, the LE's are pretty much premiums if their counts are not reasonably limited, and the standard is the pro model.
Be sure to Cliffy your game if you are buying one! Lol
Oompa loompa doompety doo
I've got a perfect Cliffy for you
Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me
What do you get when don't protect your game
Playing as much as a kid with free credits plays
What are you at, getting terribly lax
What do you think will come to your playfield if you do that
I don't like the look of it
Oompa loompa doompety da
If you protect your game, you will go far
Your game will live in happiness too
Like the Cliffy Oompa Loompa Doompety do
Quoted from rai:
Who will be doing the code on Wonka? Same guys as DI!?
Kaneda mentioned that Keith Johnson isn't on Wonka but rather Joe Katz, he originally said Keith. but then corrected himself later. I thought Ted Estes would have been the lead as his last game as a lead was Dialed In. All 3 might be working on the game in some capacity, Keith might be working on Pirates for longer and then on to #6, guess we will find out more tonight.
Quoted from Vyzer2:
Yeah I would think that all of Jjp’s team of coders have a good deal of input on the rule set. I think this is a great strength of Jjp to have arguably some of the best coders in the business making their games so good. That’s a comforting thought.
Yeah, all of JJP's programmers seem to help out with all titles. Hobbit is a good example. Keith Jonhson is the lead but Ted Estes did a lot of code work for the games last few updates.
Joe Katz has done a ton of great coding work for JJP so if he's the lead on Wonka the code is in good hands.
Need to see more, much more, but right now I would say Dialed In not only shoots better but has more toys. Just initial impression, need to see a lot more. Lighting looks incredible.
Quoted from PapaKilo:
They are streaming the $9,500 LE model o.O
I mean it looks great but right now I feel that all 4 previous JJP titles contained much more. Price is the same as Pirates LE, $9500 but there appears to be less in it. That may be good or bad. Game does look very cool and want to see much more.
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:
This game reeks of JJP struggling to survive..
Standard plain ugly decals.. that everyone always angers so many Stern haters on pro models.. Notice absence of any characters anywhere?
Even in the LE/CE for $1000s more you're really not getting anything...
The playfield is FULL of inserts/lights.. and a ton of habit rails and layered clear plastic to obviously make up for the absence of 3d toys/models.. I think this game is a joke... certainly for the LE/CE.. compare this to WOZ and even HOBBIT.. the detail on both these games blow away WONK..
Out of this game..
Well, whoever spoke at the beginning just said they were coming off their best year yet.
One thing I took away from the stream is that video clips that just play without the audio from the license do little for me. Many pins have done this and it doesn't seem to add anything to the game, at least include the audio from the scene. It just seems odd to have all of these video clips playing and then seeing the actors talking in the scenes but no audio. At that point I rather have more custom animations.
Quoted from iceman44:
It's the whole package. He did a phenomenal job with JJP POTC without much asset wise to work with.
Alien, imho, is the best sound/audio package of any pinball machine and its not even close. It's how its all orchestrated.
David, Aurich, Ferret and Florida coder (can't think of name) here in the states did an awesome job to bring that game together.
Yes we will see more in the future.
The IMMERSION level is something you just can't cut and paste and throw shit together.
My reference points are the multiple slot machines that are done so well. Let's see where this ends up but its got a LONG ways to go and JJP has delivered in the past so let's see.
Agree. David Thiel is a master at creating pinball music and sounds.
The video below is of David Thiel talking about creating music and sounds for Hobbit. At one point he talks about taking a licensed song, The Old Friends theme, and creating several variants of it. He also talks about avoiding looping in music, implementing dialogue, pulling sounds from assets, etc. The quantity, variety, and quality of music / sounds put into games by David Thiel has been incredible. He knows how to create custom pinball sounds, music as well as leveraging licensed assets and then tying it to specific modes and events in game. It's a huge bummer that he's no longer at JJP.
On a side note I think The Hobbit may go down as David Thiels magnum opus, his master work.
If you watch anything from the video I posted above check out the section below where David talks about creating several variants of a licensed track to get more mileage out of it. Incredible stuff.
There's a new interview with Eric up from the LoserKid Pinball Podcast. Lots of cool information about Willy Wonka, Pirates, designing games, etc. Eric mentions how Willy Wonka is designed for on location pinball with approachable rules. Still sounds like there's going to to be a few wizard modes in the game based on what he said.
It's possible that Wonka was purposely scaled back a bit in terms of mechanical features due to JJP wanting a more reliable on location pin? Even the standard at $7500 still has a good amount going on in it.
Still hoping the theme integration is dramatically improved in Wonka. Video clips would have more impact and create better theme integration if they were played (and heard) as shots in a mode are played versus being played on a silent loop. The silent video clips hurt the game in my opinion as they take away from the world under glass feeling.
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