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Quoted from drfrightner:
The game is 110% no question no doubt about it Gene Wilder. Jack himself told me that. Hopefully that debate ends. I will tell you this, I like the Depp movie, I like the backstory, and Depp was amazing as Willy Wonka.
With that being said that film is NOT a classic, Gene Wilder is and always will be Willy Wonka and that is not to take away from Depp.
Wonka is Gene Wilder and any pinball game should be based on Gene Wilder just like anything else licensed from that franchise.
Gene Wilder will always be known for his many amazing films like Blazing Saddles, Stir Crazy, Young Frankenstein which would also make a cool pinball... but his legacy is Willy Wonka.
Depp's legacy is Captain Jack.
That is a 110% FACT
Quoted from RichieWrench:
I think Willy Wonka will be great and I hope that is the game - I would be shocked if it was not a Willy Wonka and if it was something else -- Would that not be the biggest surpise ever - But from what I have heard and what is out there - I think Willy Wonka is next and will be great for JJP and for pinball in itself as well.
You have #12
Joe loves you
It will be great for JJP
It will be great for pinball
Boom boom. We are all gonna party hard!
This isn't a DI thread and nobody gives a shit about that game while we wait for Wonka.
DI is LONG ago in the rear view mirror and its time move on. Sales were terrible.
The great defenders can waste their breath and time
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
500 CE's?! What a way to destroy the collectibility factor for CE owners. 500 used to be considered high for LE's and JJP blew past that. I always thought the whole CE and SLE concept was dumb but at least the counts were fairly limited (200 was pushing it for DI CE and Pirates CE). 500 though...no way. The LE model probably won't even be limited and if that's the case why even call it a limited edition model?
I've never understood why JJP even calls it an "LE".
That's probably what I'll end up with though.
There is nothing "collectible" about 500 games i don't care what the title is, especially at $12,500.
However, i still can't see them selling more than 200-300 CE's anyhow.
Quoted from RichieWrench:
I agree - I think it will be more than 200 from what I have been told - But I dont know the number -- I think 250 to 300.
But what do I know .....
I do know that that are making at least 12.....that I do know for sure.
LOL, they are skipping #12 this time, retiring the number!
We will find out tomorrow, I'm as excited as you are Ritchie. I was told "up to 500 CE's" and i can't wait to see how they make it special and unique this time. I agree that POTCCE is very cool with the topper and artwork., not so much on the barnacles.
So WONKA VISION is a given, should be really cool.
I forgot how they did that horrible DI announcement of "as many orders up to December 31"
That's what Jack is gonna do here, "as many orders by X date up to 500"
Quoted from bigd1979:
Its crazy how much hype there is for this pin... i think there's good reason this time around and it will be a hit for most people. Im sure a few will be let down but overall it will be a winner and a good seller for jjp.
Well i think a lot of people, including myself, have been waiting a long time for JJP to put the whole package together, theme, art, layout/design, code etc.
If Wonka is it, they have a GRAND SLAM on their hands and followed up by Toy Story.
This could be the year of JJP.
Quoted from javagrind888:
I don't get all the Johnny Depp hate. His portrayal of Jack Sparrow was awesome along with just about everything else he's done with Tim Burton. The guy personally is a weirdo, but so is most of Hollywood and music. Roald Dahl's family has said that Depp and Burton's version was closer to the book and they hated the original. I get that people like the original better, but there's room for both definitely. It blows my mind that people don't like the Pirates of the Caribbean movies just because they don't like Depp.
Aside from the fact that he is a typical Hollywood DOPE?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Kaneda said Keith Johnson isn't on Wonka but rather Joe Katz. I thought Ted Estes would have been the lead as his last game as a lead was Dialed In. All 3 might be working on the game in some capacity, Keith might be working on Pirates for longer and then on to #6, guess we will find out more tonight.
For me, whenever Keith or Lyman aren’t on the code you aren’t getting the best
I have no idea who Joe Katz is but hopefully the whole team over is working on it
Quoted from NeilMcRae:
need to play it to see how it shoots but the theme integration is super lacking, needs much more gene, from the stream its a fail for me.
No candyman. No Oompah, no pure imagination? WTF? That music is critical on this game.
JJP please for the love of god stop doing launches at pinball shows when idiots like me can turn up and play terrible and thus make the game look terrible.
Have to agree thus far Neil. Let's hope it has a long ways to go in code development and theme integration. I'm comparing it to the way the Wonka slot machines incorporate all of it in there to keep you sitting there and playing. Not seeing it here yet.
No chocolate river?
$12,500 for the CE? The artwork and colors are better but what else? Radcals you don't really see next to your other pins and pinblades?
Quoted from MK6PIN:
Had a chance to read, look at some the streams/ posts this morning.......where I'm at (this only one voice, mine):
a) Think the game is beautiful in its own way...am sure it looks even better in person. Looks very WOZ-like, and still give the edge to WOZ ECLE as my favorite of the 2, but haven't seen it in person.
b) Playfield - all kinds of stuff/ toys in there, could be great, could be meh, will have to play. am sure the sparkle playfield will be outstanding.
c) Theme - Like it, given the direction JJP tends to go w their games. Never "head over heels" for it, but w Pat at the helm, it's the most appealing element at the moment...and for me, theme does matter
d) Art - I'm no expert (not by a mile) but does seem overly "busy"...could be wrong there.
d) Music - not truly amazed, but then again, haven't been able to play it along w the tracks
e) price points - sort of is what it is....if I buy one, it will be because it's the one I want...not dictated by the price.
This is a game I will HAVE to play before buying...period. Given the CE's aren't projected until "summerish" (hmm), and LE's are limitless, suspect I'll have plenty of time to decide. It just doesn't bring the over the top "wow, have to have it/ landmark" for me without playing first. Doesn't mean I won't own one, but not without playing quite a bit first.
I've been fortunate to be able to put my hands on/play an example of all my machines before purchasing, even the originals (WOZ, Alien, BM66LE). They were pretty much useless at that point. WOZ was a landmark machine, had to have it...truly was amazing at the time ( still is), BM66 was absolutely a slam dunk in theme and art dept (also first Stern w screen)...lyman on the code, again, a no brainer, and amazing when the code caught up, AlienLE was unplayable at expo, but the theme and potential were off the charts for me...I was lucky to get one and make it the reliable monster it was meant to be.
I saw and played DI, it was an easy "no" w zero regrets. Went to expo that year expecting to bring home 3 titles, as Pat is amazing and I WANTED his first new reveal very badly...not to be.
Chris (HEP) has my TZ up on it's legs, and can assure you when I get that back, there will be massive "wow" back in the lineup, and will take a backseat to nothing out there, period. Truthfully, knowing that it's coming home soon, sets the bar very, very high any new machines.
MunstersLE is oddly the only machine that I bought without playing one first (theme just clicked easy for me), and (flame away) it exceeded my expectations for what it was built for.( Mini PF is soo minimized in reviews, but I'll keep it out of this thread). could sell tomorrow, but definitely love it, and not happening.
I WANT a Pat WONKACE!!!!, But will have to play it first......mark
Excellent points Mark.
The best one is wait it out now and see how it develops. Why not?
The $7500 standard is a really good thing, the artwork is pathetic on it so you just have to look past it
How do you get to $12,500 on a CE?
Have until summer to decide but my initial take is if I get one it would be the standard right now
Gotta love ole Jack from Jersey!
From $7500 to the $12500 vanity pin.
Designed to extract $$ from dummies like myself
Richie is a no brainer #12 but man, I see what you did there Jack
Will I stick with my CE? Let’s see how it comes along. I’m certainly dumb enough
Pinball consumers, myself included, lose their ever loving F ing minds when it comes to buying pins
Fickle and like we are in some alternate universe
That said, the beer will be flowing again tonight while I enjoy my pins and justify buying the CE in my altered state of mind
Ahhhh the insanity of it all
I LOVE IT!!!!!!
Needs an Oompa Loompa mode
And where is the Chocolate river? Multiball or mini wizard.
Need a few more branches on that Code sheet up there please
And they needed a mod to fix the grinding noise.
Not a big fan of toppers anyhow unless its AFMrLE style, WH20 or even MBrLE.
It’s their topper going on their pin and they need to control the quality.
I don’t give a F who made it
And I don’t want to hear any excuses about quality for Wonka
Quoted from delt31:
No way! That elevator addition is overrated in my opinion. It's not a toy like the gumball machine - it's basically a giant clear VUK. I would be perfectly fine without it.
Now that standard art.... Yikes
Def some weak shit in this game and the art on the standard is pathetic and no one disagrees.
Put F ing Wilder on the standard cab art for zero extra money and quit playing games.
The Wonkavator is a poor man's TSPP couch without the upper pf.
Quoted from dts:
Did you guys see Supreme? Now that is ridiculous. At least there is some art here! Who looks at the sides in a collection anyhow?
LOL. We aren't buying some Supreme BS. Thankfully.
If you are buying a Standard for home do you really want that disgrace for art?
If you are an Op, who cares right?
Quoted from dts:
I dunno, Ice. In a typical home collection, this will probably go in the middle somewhere, in which case the main real estate is the playfield and LCD. So I really don't think it is bad, certainly not the reason upgrade to an LE. If there is something in gameplay that stands out on the LE, then maybe you're talking. But that upper lock isn't really on the level of the gumball machine in TZ.
Oh yeah, totally agree, there is nothing on the LE or CE that really stands out. The upper Wonkavator lock to me is TSPP lite.
I could squeeze the standard tight in between pins and you would never see the crappy artwork!
Standard is the right pick but so many will pick sexier game just because. Like myself. Because i'm an idiot.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:
yeah, try the glass off...
Candyman isn't in the game. Oompah isn't featured enough. PI he randomly sings and its not very clear. Not sure with the wizard mode...
It's pretty apparent that David Thiel isn't working on JJP games anymore.
And that's NOT a good thing
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:
I like a lot of the sound effects, they're very reminiscent of the Inventing Room, although it would be cool if they'd get that springy Gobstopper machine sound in there...
The music, so far, is definitely lacking...
And they could easily use dozens of additional audio clips from the film. Way too many memorable lines are MIA.
It's the whole package. He did a phenomenal job with JJP POTC without much asset wise to work with.
Alien, imho, is the best sound/audio package of any pinball machine and its not even close. It's how its all orchestrated.
David, Aurich, Ferret and Florida coder (can't think of name) here in the states did an awesome job to bring that game together.
Yes we will see more in the future.
The IMMERSION level is something you just can't cut and paste and throw shit together.
My reference points are the multiple slot machines that are done so well. Let's see where this ends up but its got a LONG ways to go and JJP has delivered in the past so let's see.
Quoted from SheriffBarclay:
Regardless of your personal feelings on K, he absolutely nailed it today. JJP making CEs owners wait until last in the build order is a terrible idea.
Your highest profit margin, most collectable version, typically bought by rich collectors who want to be the first guy on the block with the new toy? Those guys don't want to watch 1000+ LE owners unbox their games first.
And the "but, the ce version will be better because they fix issues that show up with SEs and LEs" isn't enough of a perk to overcome the negative of waiting.
100% correct Kaneda
We are supposed to be in the "announce the game and then ship the game" mode.
Once again, that doesn't seem to be the case. Delays.
I'm in on a CE too but if its not coming until this Fall then its another failure. How many more games will be announced between now and then?
I'm still waiting on my POTCCE.
I don't get it.
Quoted from MK6PIN:
Everyone complaining about game prices (rightfully), yet the vultures are capturing the best margin at an exponential rate, and no one seems to notice.
The other risk of not locking in the high margin CE's is if early reviews don't come in really great then people will drop down or drop out.
For JJP, I don't think Jack even cares, same story for 8 years. Tell us what we want to hear, collect the big deposits and then worry about it later.
They have raked in a shit ton of Wonka order $$ that had to be sent by the distros based on the "announce and ship" promise.
Now its back to the same old BS.
Just tell the truth Jack. That's all. Where are the POTCCE's?
Announce and ship? Say one thing and do another.
It's ok i guess because nobody seems to care. How many sales are lost though?
Quoted from Cgpinhead:
Hey everyone, go outside, it’s super nice out today. Wonka will ship soon. Hopefully they make a pampers edition for all of the babies on here. JJP is a beyond amazing company. My potc Ce was flawless out the box. Problem is, when the machines work fine nobody writes about it. There’s plenty out there that are mint. Keep whinning, picky picky picky. Reading the whiners sure takes away from pinball. Go find a hobby where the manufactures and distributors are perfect. Let them roll a big fat red carpet out for you and bless you with rose pedals and grapes. Let them bask in your perfection and give them hope that one day they can be just like you.
Just tell the truth.
You have been around Pinside less than a year
Jack has sold a ton of Wonka's already.
JJP needs to do a MUCH better job of assembling these games and "quality control".
Keeping my CE will depend on how game develops or not AND whether or not they get the above right.
Most of us want to believe and are 1/2 glass full types, most of the time anyhow, but I'm gonna try and follow my new Pinball mantra from law school way back when.
"DON'T FIGHT THE FACTS"
Joe Katz says the code has taken the direction it has for reasons such as location play and shorter ball times. Translation, less deep mode based code, video assets, etc.
Pat Lawlor apparently wanted to create the newest and greatest location game. Fine, but this is primarily a HUO company at that price point?
Quality control at JJP is terrible.
Production is still way too slow, "waiting on parts for my POTCCE"
I'm looking for solid quality with a game that doesn't require constant tweaking and 1,000+ page problem threads like POTC
And i'd like to pay for the game and then get it in a reasonable amount of time.
That's it, that's all, and if Wonka doesn't get there then i'll wait for the next one.
I'm hoping for the best for JJP and Wonka, a great theme for me BUT.........I'm not gonna buy the pin unless the FACTS change.
Quoted from Gasoline:
I don't want to speculate from podcast rumors or someone posting they heard at a Pinball festival. Not claiming what you comment on as false or that they are true but would like to read myself from a definitive company source. I may have just missed it or can't recall where JJP posted it. In the end, what you summarized may be all true but I still don't know for sure yet.
I don't recall what JJP stream it was, maybe someone else can point to the specific moment. Jack, Pat and Joe have all said it via streams/interviews
You can clearly watch the current streams and see where the code is and the direction of it to support what they said. And the flowchart of the rules lay it all out as well.
With Keith games, like Lyman, you know what you are going to get. And what i expect for spending big money on these NIB games.
I like Joe Katz but the fact is i don't know what he can/will deliver at the end of the day.
A lot of people are gonna buy no matter what, that's great, but no more benefit of the doubt for me unless its Keith and/or Lyman. And JJP has to up the quality control and speed of delivery OR might as well just wait it out.
David, Keith and the layout Eric put together is why i'm patiently waiting for a POTCCE and "the parts to arrive", despite the QC issues.
AlienLE is in a league of its own because of David and that team.
So yeah, he's a HUGE loss. And his contract is guaranteed for 3 yrs
Why didn't JJP lock him up?
Quoted from zaphX:
You'll be glad you did, it really is an amazing game. Are CEs still available to be had? I still have CE envy...
There are CE orders yet to be fulfilled, mine is one of them. Fully paid. I'm sure they are focused on getting Wonka out the door and working POTCCE run into the mix sooner than later
Quoted from PinballSTAR:
Doug - You may want to double check that - all CEs are made a long time ago and no more will be made by JJP. Maybe you bought an LE ? Or maybe you bought a CE that was already made, but no more CEs are being made at JJP just so no-one else gets the wrong impression.
Yeah I’m good with that Joe. I canceled on the POTCCE a while back to roll to WonkaCE and thought I could go back. But that ain’t available now so...
So it’s onward and upward. My bad
I’m good with Wonka. Great theme and I hope they bring it home
When is the game shipping? "Announce, produce and ship" within 60 days?
Same old story? I've got a CE paid for and it seems like same old BS.
Quoted from vex:
Ice you seem to have the same frustrations recurring on a very regular basis. Maybe its you? Enjoy what you have and have a drink ...cheers
Well I'm getting impatient in my old age.
When i have paid for a POTCCE (on trade) and a Wonka CE i'm just a bit anxious to see if they can deliver?
But i agree Vex, have a drink and relax is the only real answer.
And i have too many pins to play as it is now anyhow!
Quoted from Lermods:
Woz had a very long wait time and look how well it’s done. We are all too used to stern announcing a game and having it out the door within a month. Smaller companies can’t do it like that. I also don’t buy into the hype so it doesn’t bother me if they show it early, stream it and then I have to wait; doesn’t make me change my mind about my deposit. I appreciate jjp showing the game over the last 6 weeks. The game is on the line and I hope will ship shortly, that’s a big change for them. Imagine how much grief they’d get if they released a game early, lacking code and it had issues. Get it right, then release it. If the game is good, sales will follow and everyone will forget about a few months delay.
Ahhhh yes Lermods, I was there from day one. Took about 2 1/2 yrs to get my Woz
Back then there weren’t many options available although I blame JJP for getting me addicted to pinball because of the pins I bought while waiting
That’s the worst part of the whole thing, no restraint, gotta buy something new when they announce a new game like Wonka to satisfy the “addiction” while we wait
CE in October so I agree with everyone, IF the game ends up great the delays won’t matter
AND this time it’s different, Wonka pins should be going into boxes this month so not much longer to wait
Pinball people are fickle
Quoted from spandol:
They had said in a stream the artwork on the CE won’t be much different artwise, but will have the sparkle of WOZYBR
Man i really don't want to think Wonka CE compared to Woz yellow brick road.
That is a terrible comparison. WozYBR? Throw some sparkle on a PF and call it a day. LOL
We have until October to decide anyhow on the CE's
Hopefully the game will progress like all JJP games before. A bit worried though.
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