Out...Another CE for someone...The POTC thread is the hardest read in memory for me...

Left Mike a VM...Hope it is a great game for those that are in....Done w JJP nib for the foreseeable future...

YouTube took forever to process this! Finally ready in 4k...

Confused. So you dumped your POTC CE or Wonka?

Excellent! Was watching some of this last night on Twitch, much easier here though. Fantastic setup and stream, keep up the good work!

I just got my nib potc le a week ago and I’ve had no issues at all, not a single one. Not all games are problematic, seems like a hasty decision to give up on wonka because potc has issues.if you dont like wonka game play, that’s different, but I don’t understand the link to potc.

Got to play Wonka yesterday quite a number of times. At first I was underwhelmed but the more I played the more I liked it. Not sure I liked it as much as pirates sitting next to it, but ideally one would own both.

I don’t want to mis speak but from what I heard (from an extremely good source) While wonka will obviously get a lot more code and rules, it will not be getting a much more media assets incorporated into the game.

both

Really, really hope yours stays good, and the QC, delivery schedule of these start to exceed expectations...nothing hasty in my decision. Look forward to playing a Wonka on location at some point, but that's about it for now....

This is my figurative .02 not a shot-map comparison:

I got in 2-3 games at GSPF, and the ball times were very short, so I didn't change my already good opinion of this layout from watching a few hours of the streams, but if I had to describe it to someone that has played a lot of pinball, I would say: Imagine the feel of Whirlwind but take out all the drop targets. So the "feel" of it for me (a 1980's drop target player) is "barren". I'm sure if I were playing pinball in 1992, I would have said the same thing about Funhouse -- a layout I'm not a big fan of. Great theme, but where are my drops? Funhouse feels empty and barren to me, even though it has some fun combos and great programming. Feel...

So to me, taking out drops and spinning discs to play Funhouse or Wonka is a small step down in feel from a peak design for Pat. Enjoy your combos! But I'm more of a drop target horizontal bounce player...

Note: the pops held up my ball on several occasions, and I've just never been a fan of Pat's pop designs that hold up the ball (see Whirlwind) where the ball fails 3 out of 4 of the reasons to have pops (scoring targets, draining balls, randomizing movement) -- he uses them strictly for modes, so if you are not in the mode, they are a time suck my book.

-mof

You lost me at "Funhouse -- a layout I'm not a big fan of." Your opinion is now obsolete.

Regarding sounds (versus music or movie clips) -- I couldn't hear the game, so I can't comment further on that.

I walked up to Jack personally at the pinball show 2 years ago, and said the Hobbit doesn't sound like pinball to me (WOZ does!), it sounds like a cat dry-humping a DVR remote which is playing movie clips randomly. I don't know whether he appreciated what I was trying to communicate.

Every shot (or location) should have a unique sound based off every switch (see Whirlwind or Funhouse)... I can close my eyes and tell you where the ball is in those games, based off sounds. To me modern pinballs OFTEN fail with sound, and it's my #2 reason to own a game after layout/physics. I want to control the sounds like a musician plays a keyboard. Everyone has their pecking order of what matters. I'm physics then player-controlled-sounds...

The good news is sounds can be fixed in code -- but I'm not sure if any manufacturer has ever done that before -- so it might not be where they want to put their resources.

I'll go listen to an hour of a stream and try to listen for whether you can begin to imagine where the ball is based on sounds.
-mof

I normally agree with both your and MKs posts....but I am with MK on this....it is not hasty...it is prudent. These prices at least for LE are $10k ish....that is crazy coin so I get him/others wanting to back off. I like Wonka and POTC but for those prices...not feeling the buys either.

"To whom much is given.....much is expected"

This is one of my favorite sayings...and if JPP wants to lead the way in the coins they collect for these games, they need to lead in quality, toys and code.

At GSPF -- Oktoberfest and Wonka were side by side, and I found "exploring the shot map" more intriguing on OF. It has more to do on it. Does that make it better overall for my tastes? I have absolutely no idea, and I don't wanna argue it either way. Just reporting first impressions based on a side-by-side look. I was more compelled to play the silly beer game and see if I could make all the crazy shots on that thing, and it certainly had longer ball times to buy time to explore...

Definitely look forward to playing much more of both -- however, I'm a little bummed that it might take a while to see either one again out in SF.

-mof

Fair enough, but I never thought I’d like potc as much as I do. It has me questioning why I own some of my other games, it’s that good to me. Even if I have issues down the road, I’ll address them and keep on playing. My view is likely different from others as I love the hobbit and DI too, not a fan of woz. I think I’ll like wonka a lot, but I am concerned about the high cost of these games.

Not intending to derail a hype thread...simply stating that I was "in" on both, and am now out. I'll leave it at that.

And he insisted on the heavy metal music in Oktoberfest, the only thing I really dislike about that game. Furthermore Balcer tends to not stick to his proven paths and experiments. They (AP) do have two fairly new programmers over there which enjoy a lot of freedom and are very open to this community.

By the way that is also true for Keefer and Joe at JJP but somehow it feels more restricted at JJP with this title. As I said we will see in the future if that is true or not. I sure hope I am wrong

Nailed it .

This is a deal breaker for many. No real assets again will really hurt sales. Just collecting wonka bars as one of the main task is going to become over the long haul, a real chore in a home environment. Like chopping wood. Sure don’t like hearing this to be the case.

This is a deal breaker for many. No real assets again will really hurt sales. Just collecting wonka bars as one of the main task is going to become over the long haul, a real chore in a home environment. Like chopping wood. Sure don’t like hearing this to be the

Damn I guess this means your out
on the collectors edition?

If that's true I'm definitely out. Disappointed the more I see of this game

This post is right in the money (pun intended, lol). Exactly how I’ve felt and what I’ve been saying all along.

Looooool, thanks for that, good humor. Meaning toward Romulusx comment above.

JJP needs to stop streaming the game until the code is done. The streams are making me have second thoughts lol.

Glad to see another great pin stream from you. Hope to see many more.

This^^^^100%

I'm the opposite. I'm already tired of the asset clips used as is, and if more were added, over time I'd be equally as fatigued. One can only see video clips so many times before they burn into your retinas. Seeing Bilbo run down those stairs, time and time again for multi-ball, sans even owning it, but wanting to, makes me batty.

This is kind of where I miss well done, and brief, DMD animations.

Though I'll say the multi-ball animations in JJPOTC, fill in that same exact perfect snippet for me.

Thinking you might be in the minority on this title (agree with your assessment of Hobbit). WW film clips are just too fun and never seem to tire watching such a well acted and written script.

Who gets tired of WW iconic scenes? Especially when you’ve reached different points in the game. Who doesn’t want to be rewarded with such movie integrations upon achieving different movie/game goals? You’ll surely be thinking them in your mind, even if not present. How much more authentic to actually have them play out on screen? How many times does one hear the candyman song or other music and still enjoy hearing it again? It’s part of the movie assets. Just like any themed games music and scenes. If they are not there, will be hugely disappointing.

Jack has sold a ton of Wonka's already.

JJP needs to do a MUCH better job of assembling these games and "quality control".

Keeping my CE will depend on how game develops or not AND whether or not they get the above right.

Oh I'm sure I am as well. I like a good mix of sound design/music and effects, complimented with dashes of animation. This is why I enjoy JJPOTC the way I do. I was watching IE Pinball's awesome stream last night, and I'm fine never seeing Gene have that hand against head smirk/smile, or the Gobstopper footage ever again. After three or four times, it ruins the imagery for me. Hence why I enjoy POTC so much. Just neat little vignette images sans actors and repetitious dialogue.

I also feel that boat song feels really intensely out of place, not so in the movie, but when there are so many layers of sound going on. I feel like the entire game has a schizophrenic sound package so far. It's too intense and jarring for me.

The two ramp shots look so amazing though....

Agreed on all of this. I’m concerned about the repetition on Wonka’s clips, music and modes.

I’m still in but I’m increasingly concerned that it’s going to disappoint compared to POTC.

Appreciated playing at GSPF.
Good Lawlor design, but a definite wait and see after it develops more at this point.

Different game but on the topic of media assets, I’m actually happy POTC doesn’t have that much from the movies (I really dislike the Pirates franchise and the drunken perfume salesman in the lead) I think of it as just a great somewhat generic pirates game and I’d be happy to own one.

I think this will be an amazing location game. I just don't know about home ownership at this point.....

Which is fine, as I have some older JJP games on my mind, and this code will develop more over time while I pursue/save for those.

Such a gross overreaction it's almost comical to actually read... POTC is amazing despite the out of box tweaks that we've had to make thus far (we have a POTC CE) and it didn't even remotely factor into our Wonka CE pre-order decision...

To each their own sure but sometimes the hysteria is amusing...

Jeff

Me. Any game that just plays a bunch of movie clips gets old pretty quickly. It was something we very specifically avoided on Alien, and while I'm obviously biased, I wish more games would follow the kind of work Kelly did. You never have to sit there watching a long clip, it's all snappy and fast, edited super hard. Hobbit has way too many long clips for my taste, definitely get old to me. Guardians of the Galaxy is even worse, long clips but without the right sound, what a mess.

If you love a movie then watch the movie. If you get a game that plays a ton of scenes from it constantly you're just risking no longer loving the movie, as you get sick of them.

I'm with the people who think POTC is a better game for not being able to use the actors, it saved the media package from feeling dreadfully repetitive fast. It might make it more 'generic pirate theme' in some ways, but imo that's not a bad thing. They did a good job with it. DI and then POTC means there were back to back packages with a lot of creativity from JJP.

People's playfields are literally chipping apart, nobody is overreacting, they're rightly concerned. For the kind of money these games cost it's not acceptable to have them look like shit after barely being played. This isn't about tweaking mechs, it's about fundamental quality control with lasting repercussions. JJP would be fools to ignore it.

couldn't disagree with this post more...tweaks? ...you can't be serious....ruined pf's w washers as a "fix" for 10k?

(I'm out of the game now, so no more comments from me....apologies...just really pisses me off)

LOL... My PF is fine, I don't have any of those issues. The only things I've had to do is tighten the forks on the chest mechanism and slightly adjust the pirate ship rotation. Get over yourself... No game is perfect.

Jeff

I agree. My point here is not "everyone" is having this issue and to overreact when you don't even own the game just seems silly to me. If you are experiencing this issue personally then absolutely it should be something you should be upset about. To cancel your order(s) because you read a thread online has never made any sense to me personally...

Jeff

ok....truly last post in this one......I didn't just read about it...received 1 phonecall, and 3 pm's from pinbuds who were fuming over this, and I'm upset they are having to go through this (they own the game). Post your "rare" pf issues in that thread...it's growing daily.....defending poor QC has never made sense to me...done..

Like I said before, to each their own... I just don't get it and you're free to disagree of course... I'd be pissed off as well but I'm not because this issue isn't affecting me, end of story. JJP POTC is an amazing game and it's unfortunate you won't even give it a chance. It's not that I personally care, I hold no ill will, I just wanted to point out that I disagree. That's all.

Jeff

All I had to do was adjust a vuk power setting.

This game will end up with a great balance of clips, sounds and animations. JJP hasn’t dropped the ball once imho. Sure, hobbit’s pf design might not be your cup of tea, but overall, it’s still a cool game. Do they have production issues? Like all complex production companies, yes. Their customer service is second to none though. Go read the early DI threads. Same discussion. What’s your opinion of DI now that the code is pretty much done? Don’t listen to the couch critics!

That's where Stern are miles ahead.

They sold 600 Munsters LE, and a ton of pro's and premiums BEFORE people realised the code wasn't that good.

JJP does it the other way round and they don't seem to be learning from the past.

Are you implying that Stern is successful because it is tricking its customers ?

No, because they don't promise anything.

They just know the 'new shiny, I must have it' window is very small and so they show, make and deliver in that window.

POTC seemed like an old game by the time it finally got produced.

Most of us want to believe and are 1/2 glass full types, most of the time anyhow, but I'm gonna try and follow my new Pinball mantra from law school way back when.

"DON'T FIGHT THE FACTS"

Joe Katz says the code has taken the direction it has for reasons such as location play and shorter ball times. Translation, less deep mode based code, video assets, etc.

Pat Lawlor apparently wanted to create the newest and greatest location game. Fine, but this is primarily a HUO company at that price point?

Quality control at JJP is terrible.

Production is still way too slow, "waiting on parts for my POTCCE"

Thus,

As a HUO pin buyer of EXPENSIVE GAMES, I'm looking for an immersive game, like BM66, TWD and Alien, that is deeply coded for such immersion and longevity.

I'm looking for solid quality with a game that doesn't require constant tweaking and 1,000+ page problem threads like POTC

And i'd like to pay for the game and then get it in a reasonable amount of time.

That's it, that's all, and if Wonka doesn't get there then i'll wait for the next one.

I'm hoping for the best for JJP and Wonka, a great theme for me BUT.........I'm not gonna buy the pin unless the FACTS change.

I'm fairly confident we will NOT ever get Candyman in this game. The rights to that song are owned by M&M Mars, and no way Jack's gonna pay up for it.

I don't recall what JJP stream it was, maybe someone else can point to the specific moment. Jack, Pat and Joe have all said it via streams/interviews

You can clearly watch the current streams and see where the code is and the direction of it to support what they said. And the flowchart of the rules lay it all out as well.

With Keith games, like Lyman, you know what you are going to get. And what i expect for spending big money on these NIB games.

I like Joe Katz but the fact is i don't know what he can/will deliver at the end of the day.

A lot of people are gonna buy no matter what, that's great, but no more benefit of the doubt for me unless its Keith and/or Lyman. And JJP has to up the quality control and speed of delivery OR might as well just wait it out.

I just wish it had more songs, unique ones NOT from the movie to mix things up. I feel like I've already heard that golden ticket song more than I ever want to hear in my life, and I've only watched a few Wonka streams.

Get David Thiel in there to produce some more theme-appropriate but unique songs!