Quoted from jimwe5t:

Lol, always using this old worn out name calling to put down people trying to figure out from a forum what is good or isn’t. Is it really necessary?

Quoted from solarvalue:

Maybe go and play a JJP machine, especially the more recent releases like DI, JJPOTC and WONKA. The answer to this and many of the other questions you have been asking will be answered immediately when you do.

Quoted from mountaingamer:

Naa... I just call it like I see it - your pontificating and trolling the last week, but you also saw value in WOZ 5 years ago... whatever.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Have a friend that has Munsters sitting right next to a POTC. Played them both and see zero differences in build quality.
This is why I’m asking what are the differences, in case I missed something? Please list build quality differences for a comparison of those two tables, Stern and JJP. Have yet to have any solid proof from anyone here?

Quoted from f3honda4me:

Cabinet wood is one of the most obvious. Leg bolt areas reinforced. You don’t see a massive difference in what’s on the playfield? Mechs, toys, etc?

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks for pointing something out. My friend and I compared Munsters wood cabinet and POTC. They are both equally solid and made from nice wood. Looking at older Sterns, I can’t say the same for the cabinet, but Munsters is equal to JJP. We also noticed the Stern locking mechanism is far superior, as well as Sterns Apron design is better in that it doesn’t require ugly metal fence to keep the ball from slamming into the glass above the apron. Sterns actually follows the contour of the glass incline by special design.
Mechanical items are not the same. Munsters has had no issues for him, where his POTC has had numerous. I’m giving actual reasons that I’ve discovered. Now will those that wish to point out from these two tables, please tell me quality differences?

Quoted from f3honda4me:

Cabinet wood is one of the most obvious. Leg bolt areas reinforced. You don’t see a massive difference in what’s on the playfield? Mechs, toys, etc?

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks for pointing one thing out. My friend and I compared Munsters wood cabinet and POTC. They are both equally solid and made from nice wood. Looking at older Sterns, I can’t say the same for the cabinet, but Munsters is equal to JJP.
We also noticed the Stern locking mechanism is far superior, as well as Sterns Apron design is better in that it doesn’t require ugly metal fence to keep the ball from slamming into the glass above the apron. Sterns actually follows the contour of the glass incline by special design (this observation doesn’t make me a Stern fanboy).
Mechanical items are not the same. Munsters has had no issues for him, where his POTC has had numerous. I’m giving actual reasons that I’ve discovered. Now will those that wish to point out from these two tables, please tell me quality differences? Unlike many, I’m open minded and want to know. After all these things are big purchases.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks for pointing one thing out. My friend and I compared Munsters wood cabinet and POTC. They are both equally solid and made from nice wood. Looking at older Sterns, I can’t say the same for the cabinet, but Munsters is equal to JJP.
We also noticed the Stern locking mechanism is far superior, as well as Sterns Apron design is better in that it doesn’t require ugly metal fence to keep the ball from slamming into the glass above the apron. Sterns actually follows the contour of the glass incline by special design (this observation doesn’t make me a Stern fanboy).
Mechanical items are not the same. Munsters has had no issues for him, where his POTC has had numerous. I’m giving actual reasons that I’ve discovered. Now will those that wish to point out from these two tables, please tell me quality differences? Unlike many, I’m open minded and want to know. After all these things are big purchases.

Quoted from f3honda4me:

They are not the same wood. You also ignored my comment about the corners. The way the cabinets are made is a huge difference. There’s a reason this thread exists for stern and not JJP:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reinforcing-stern-cabinet-legs-step-by-step
And these differences continue throughout. You wanted specifics, I gave you a couple examples. If you still don’t understand there are differences then no point in continuing to name more.

Quoted from arcadenerd925:

Last time I checked, the title of this thread was "Wonka Is Coming !!! Who's In?"
Not name calling or bashing, but it's easy to start your own thread comparing Stern and JJP build quality and I'm sure many will chime in with the specifics you are asking for. Good luck!
Cheers.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Old thread....Munsters suffers from none of this..pop the top on one. I was pleasantly surprised.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Thank you...back on topic in this one....where's Wonka???

Quoted from arcadenerd925:

I'm stoked to play one next weekend at GSPF. Will be sure to post lots of pics/opinion/etc/yaddayadda

Quoted from f3honda4me:

Thanks I’ll have to look. Would be nice if stern stopped cheaping out on every little thing.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

A CE?....super jealous...please give us all the scoop....great news!!

Quoted from arcadenerd925:

In the GSPF (and CA for sale) thread I believe it is an LE

Quoted from f3honda4me:

They are not the same wood. You also ignored my comment about the corners. The way the cabinets are made is a huge difference. There’s a reason this thread exists for stern and not JJP:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reinforcing-stern-cabinet-legs-step-by-step
And these differences continue throughout. You wanted specifics, I gave you a couple examples. If you still don’t understand there are differences then no point in continuing to name more.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Might be an interesting comparison using Munsters and POTC (different thread?). Munsters has plywood bottom, cabinet wood definitely harder than prior Sterns, and leg bracing is at least the equal (w extra cabinet bracing)..built like a tank. It has (arguably) the most inclusive and innovative "toy/mech" of any machine...legit, multiball, mini lower pf, a bash toy that appears from under a ramp, another w magnet hold in front, and way crazy light show, interactive to gameplay. Like it or not..a serious, innovative add. Mono targets and basic coding have been attacked endlessly. We know POTC strengths and weaknesses (this is sort of a JJP thread).
Which machine is built better for what it does? My Munsters has hundreds of plays, and short of one lower pf ball stick (nudged it free, and they've already modified wireform down there to correct..yes, a wireform on lower pf) have had zero problems...not one.
POTC? hmm......back on topic...I'm still in on WonkaCE and love my WOZ. Would just be nice to know when they actually show in a completed state and delivery schedule. Release to ship dates simply cannot be debated, after years. A clear winner exists here. PLEASE BRING ON WONKA...ALL VERSIONS W ACTUAL RELEASE DATES SO I CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. (sorry for all the caps).

Quoted from f3honda4me:

Thanks I’ll have to look. Would be nice if stern stopped cheaping out on every little thing.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Now I’m disappointed, that you (f3honda4me) nor anyone else can give me actual proof that I can take to say to my wife and tell her, here is why we should spend $2k to $7k more than say Munsters (depending on model). Looking at WW, some say it’s been “cheaped out” on mechs etc. so I can’t tell her that’s the reason. Build quality is equal, at least since Munsters, so that’s not a reason. So what’s the real reason for such a wide chasm price wise between the two companies products???

Quoted from solarvalue:

Dude, just go get a Munsters Pro if that's what you want, there's some super cheap ones on the marketplace right now.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

You're right I could, but this thread is about looking into purchasing a Willy Wonka.

Quoted from solarvalue:

I rest my case.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Don’t rest, please give me why such a large price difference so I can justify a WW purchase. Can you list why quality is better?

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Dude, are done sort of Stern shill? This has been discussed to death on pinside. Use the damn search. Here are some reasons Sterns are cheaper and lack quality as you appear to be lazy and/or incompetent:
- No knocker
- Cheap power sources with loud, crap Chinese fans
- crap power switch location
- board system that cannot be repaired. Wait till they start failing, and they WILL.
- mechs made of cheap pot-metal (imdn etc.)
- historical cabinet issues (crap wood)
- cheap leg brackets that leads to splitting
- graphite plumb Bobs
- crap coin mechs
- smaller lcd with larger translites lit by a tiny led strip
- cheap speakers and amp
- etc etc etc. (Use the search feature)
Are they improving? Only because of market pressure. I own Sterns and enjoy their machines, but it does not blind me to their penny pinching business model.
JJP machines have issues, but they are often due to challenges related to innovation, not sucking every dime out of production.
Can't wait for Wonka

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks for a crude and not to the point list, that has no solid evidence and is your opinion mainly.
Is your premise so weak that name calling and put downs are your only answers?
Your points with comments:
- No knocker - (when I play Sterns games I hear a knocker)
- Cheap power sources with loud, crap Chinese fans (no power source issues, but WW has power source issues to many reports of weakened flippers - do admit fan is too loud - good point)
- crap power switch location (power source location many times better, since little children can’t reach it turning on and off like under table mounts)
- board system that cannot be repaired. Wait till they start failing, and they WILL. (My friend has 20 tables with no failures)
- mechs made of cheap pot-metal (imdn etc.) (heard imdn did have some issues, but so has POTC, DI, WOZ (they stopped including the monkey for that very issue)
- historical cabinet issues (crap wood) (you’ve had several comments above to the contrary on Munsters)
- cheap leg brackets that leads to splitting (you’ve had several comments above to the contrary on Munsters)
- graphite plumb Bobs (how is JJPs different?)
- crap coin mechs (how is JJPs different and in HUO, this is a mute point)
- smaller lcd with larger translites lit by a tiny led strip (within a couple minutes everyone’s eyes focus on the content and not screen size. That’s why it’s indiscernible between say for example watching a 55” versus 65” proven in study after study)
- cheap speakers and amp (This is the first actual difference, except from Munsters onward)
- etc etc etc. (Use the search feature) (This is a non-point)
Your unkind ways of trying to help me is pushing me towards not buying WW. Are you an example of the typical JJP owner? Your mouth has such negative superlatives coming out of it. Please consider how to speak with people about your point of view with out calling them a shill, lazy and incompetent. Not cool. Grow up!

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Clearly you have a preconceived answer for every Stern criticism, so why bother asking? You sound like a shill, and your previous post supports my suspicion. I call a spade a spade. Your previous responses to experienced collectors were baiting and insulting. You seem to know quite a bit about the companies and their games, easily enough to form your own informed opinion. If not, you have a friend with over 20 games to talk to. Your feigned ignorance is wasting people's time. I hope you don't buy a Wonka - I truly do - as you sound like a horrible customer to deal with. Save JJP the effort and stick to your beloved Stern. Munsters sounds right up your alley with it's wonderful quality and features.
Bring on Wonka!

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Now I’m disappointed, that you (f3honda4me) nor anyone else can give me actual proof that I can take to say to my wife and tell her, here is why we should spend $2k to $7k more than say Munsters (depending on model).

Quoted from ronaldvg:

Ok, I will bite as I am overly irritated by this. As has been pointed out, if you do not notice the difference in quality between JJP and Stern something is wrong with you.
That said: I have both Munsters LE and JJP POTC standing next to eachother. Munsters is one of the better built Stern of the last years, so in that area it really shines for a Stern. But take BM66 for example and the differences are huge. Lift the playfield of both and have a look under it. The service rails of JJP are so different from Stern. The lockbar mechanism is a point of discussion as I personally like the Stern clips better than the old sliding mechanism that JJP uses.
Now look at the screen. JJP is combining HD video with professional animations all over the place, Stern uses mostly videoclips and the animations on top of that are only scoring and info about the ball count.
Whatever anyone says, the playfields of Stern are softer. My Munsters has got a lot less plays than the POTC and the POTC still looks like new. Munsters dimples way more. I also have a Beatles Gold here with 250 plays and the playfield looks like an orange. But the Sterns do play well and the clear does not chip.
Furthermore, the JJP games consistently make use of full RGB leds throughout the plaffield. For me this enhances my experience playing the game very much. It also provides unique ways to present the game and to do effects on the playfield (like the "fire" in Hobbit. Stern playfields mostly flash a lot. The programming of all the effects with RGB is a lot more labour intensive than just turning a led on or off when needed.
The sound: the speakers that are being used at Stern are crap. Munster LE uses the Kenwoods, but even those are crap for a device which main function is entertainment. I always change out the speakers from my Sterns, never did so with any of the JJP's.
The games itself: JJP games are coded like no other (except for the Sterns that Keith Johnson programmed). Not everyone likes the deep games that JJP offers, but what everything is forgetting is that the JJP games can also be played more simple. WoZ: lock balls on right ramp and start multiball, Hobbit: Lock balls on right ramp and start multiball, POTC: lock balls in chest and start multiball. But if you have those games at home that would become boring quickly (for me that is). I am already bored with Munsters, as it has about the same complicated ruleset as the moving ship (Black Pearl) alone in POTC. I am exaggerating of course, but it feels like it. Again this is really dependant on the game, as BM66 and TWD offer much more game than say AS, Munsters, Bealtes etc. With Stern it is very dependant on who is coding it, with JJP every game up until now is great.
One little thing that always bothers me of every recent Stern is the location of the power button. They should put it where it belongs. Also the noise that the PSU fan makes even when just in idle is always making me asshamed of it when it turns on. Again something that I change out with a quality fan every Stern.
As has been pointed out, all these things are not about the fact if it will work reliably or not. I have had as much problems with my Stern machines (nodeboards and CPU boards mainly) as with my JJP, but the JJP ones were most of the time just things that had to be fine tuned, not repaired. If there is so much more on the playfield, more can go wrong. The way that Stern solves that problem is just by not putting as much on it
Long post but I wanted to put out my opinion as this point keeps getting raised. Here in Europe Stern is as expensive as JJP so in that light my opinion is that I get a much better experience with JJP than with Stern. Playing a JJP is going on a journey, playing a Stern is just playing a pinball machine.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Do you feel good bashing and name calling others legitimate questions?
Yes, WOZ, when it sold for $6.5k, was a good value for a family’s hard earned money. See the value in that one and the very reason it has outsold all other JJP tables combined by far, as I’m learning here from others posts.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks for a crude and not to the point list, that has little solid evidence and is your opinion mainly.
Is your premise so weak that name calling and put downs are your only answers?
Your points with comments:
- No knocker - (when I play Stern games I hear a knocker)
- Cheap power sources with loud, crap Chinese fans (no power source issues, but WW has power source issues to many reports of weakened flippers - do admit fan is too loud - good point)
- crap power switch location (power source location many times better, since little children can’t reach it turning on and off like under table mounts)
- board system that cannot be repaired. Wait till they start failing, and they WILL. (My friend has 20 tables with no failures)
- mechs made of cheap pot-metal (imdn etc.) (heard imdn did have some issues, but so has POTC, DI, WOZ (they stopped including the monkey for that very issue)
- historical cabinet issues (crap wood) (you’ve had several comments above to the contrary on Munsters)
- cheap leg brackets that leads to splitting (you’ve had several comments above to the contrary on Munsters)
- graphite plumb Bobs (how is JJPs different?)
- crap coin mechs (how is JJPs different and in HUO, this is a moot point)
- smaller lcd with larger translites lit by a tiny led strip (within a couple minutes everyone’s eyes focus on the content and not screen size. That’s why it’s indiscernible between say for example watching a 55” versus 65” proven in study after study)
- cheap speakers and amp (This is the first actual difference, except from Munsters onward)
- etc etc etc. (Use the search feature) (This is a non-point)
Your unkind ways of trying to help me is pushing me towards not buying WW. Are you an example of the typical JJP owner? Your mouth has such negative comments coming out of it. Please consider how to speak with people about your point of view without calling them a shill, lazy and incompetent. Not cool. Grow up...

Quoted from gliebig:

Yawn. This thread sucks. Take y'alls dribble to pm.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

No point bashing or pumping either company here...Plenty of that in other threads. I'm watching/engaging in this thread for Wonka news, thoughts, and insight only.
Has anyone actually seen a CE play field yet ( may have missed it)...thanks

Quoted from Cgpinhead:

Go find a hobby where the manufactures and distributors are perfect.

Quoted from Skyemont:

You are up already or still on the couch.

Quoted from drained:

ERIC mentioned during the Wonka reveal the CE artwork needed to be approved by the liscense holders and should be ready in about "2 WEEKS".
I have a feeling JJP is laying low to finishing turning these pins from prototypes to finalized products, while gearing up the factory line to produce and ship.
I think we will see "2nd" reveal from them when these pins are ready to actually ship, capitalizing any hype it can stir up again.

Quoted from Aurich:

You guys could just stop taking the bait. Just because someone posts doesn't mean they're worth responding to, practice a little discipline. You know what bothers trolls? Being ignored.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

but WW has power source issues to many reports of weakened flippers -

Quoted from Aurich:

You guys could just stop taking the bait. Just because someone posts doesn't mean they're worth responding to, practice a little discipline. You know what bothers trolls? Being ignored.

Quoted from Aurich:

You guys could just stop taking the bait. Just because someone posts doesn't mean they're worth responding to, practice a little discipline. You know what bothers trolls? Being ignored.

Quoted from Aurich:

You guys could just stop taking the bait. Just because someone posts doesn't mean they're worth responding to, practice a little discipline. You know what bothers trolls? Being ignored.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Don’t rest, please give me why such a large price difference so I can justify a WW purchase. Can you list why quality is better?

Quoted from MK6PIN:

True....I was bored...

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Don’t rest, please give me why such a large price difference so I can justify a WW purchase. Can you list why quality is better?

Quoted from Aurich:

You guys could just stop taking the bait. Just because someone posts doesn't mean they're worth responding to, practice a little discipline. You know what bothers trolls? Being ignored.

Quoted from romulusx:

Justify this. Go Away!!