Contrast Wonka standard with BKSoR - BKSoR is a game I am drawn to primarily because of the art and sounds. BKSoR loses in other categories with less depth, rules, code and toys; wins for cabinet art and sounds and ties on lighting. And it sure looks fun to play and maybe to even own. For those reasons, I disagree with recent podcasters that Wonka is a category killing giant that will destroy all other pin companies. I see Wonka being in many collections, because it is a great pin and it is priced right. I agree JJP’s brilliant move to offer their se for $7.5k establishes the game as the new gold standard all other offerings need to match. But it is possible to fall short of this benchmark and still have a successful selling pin (see BKSoR).

My JJP nib purchases have gone like this WOZ @ 6.5k, TH @ 7.5k, POTC @ 9.5k and hopefully Wonka @ 7.5k. I know some are regularly paying 10-12.5k, but that would be a hard sell to me. Overall I am ok with JJP’s pricing. Stern, CGC and Spooky have games selling in this price range which are also quite appealing. The creativity in various pinball machine offerings over the past three years is mind blowing. We are in one of the greatest periods of modern pinballs -> 1979-1982 solid state, 1992-1995 dmd’s, 2016-2019 lcd’s

I was in on the LE, but now I'm out.

With 5000 LE's being made, I'm in no hurry.

But why candy apple red? Why not Wonka purple with pearl? The red just seems off.

Meet the Wonka kid at Pintastic New England!

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WiWo looks great and for JJP it will hopefully be a cash cow.
But it‘s a pity that the elevator is missing in the standard pin. It was the strenght of JJP that even the standard pins had the full gameplay.
The WiWo is a mixture of DI and WoZ - and that is good.
Let‘s see how the gameplay is. I‘m looking forward to play this machine.

Greets
JoCa

Biggest news is the lowering of SE price to more a palatable $7.5k. I take my hat off to Pat and JJP crew for making a table and theme that is so family friendly. It’s magical in numerous ways, including that signature buttery smooth game play and Lawlor feel. Watching the reveal put a big smile on my face. Seeing Pat play was fun too. It was obvious the love and fun he puts into his work, by the look on his face. A big thanks for a theme and package of wholesome goodness anyone can enjoy. The world doesn’t often get that nowadays. This table makes me feel good.

Does Charlie still own the factory and is he offering tours?

welcome to pinside, JoCa

i think this one will dig a deep hole in my wallet ...

Have to agree thus far Neil. Let's hope it has a long ways to go in code development and theme integration. I'm comparing it to the way the Wonka slot machines incorporate all of it in there to keep you sitting there and playing. Not seeing it here yet.

No chocolate river?

$12,500 for the CE? The artwork and colors are better but what else? Radcals you don't really see next to your other pins and pinblades?

My favorite part of the stream by far.

Drop the Kaneda comparisons. You're knocking the game because you bought in to the superfluous rantings of a clown. Go hate on him on his mediums, not the game forum that he is banned from.

This game kicks ass. Going to do a long post at the end of the weekend to give my $.02.

Pinside Reveal-o-meter:

Day before the reveal: This is going to be the best pinball game of all time! It will put all other companies out of business and forever change how we think about playing pinball!

Day of the reveal: What am I missing? It's just an ordinary pinball machine. Where are the levitating multi-colored balls? Where is the real life chocolate flowing river moving down the playfield? Meh, I'm going to bed [dejected and angry].

Day after the reveal: Watching a little bit more of the streams, it actually looks like a beautiful, well thought out and fun pin. I think I'll get one at some point.

(And, yes, I'm just as guilty as everyone for going on this rollercoaster ride.)

Had a chance to read, look at some the streams/ posts this morning.......where I'm at (this only one voice, mine):

a) Think the game is beautiful in its own way...am sure it looks even better in person. Looks very WOZ-like, and still give the edge to WOZ ECLE as my favorite of the 2, but haven't seen it in person.
b) Playfield - all kinds of stuff/ toys in there, could be great, could be meh, will have to play. am sure the sparkle playfield will be outstanding.
c) Theme - Like it, given the direction JJP tends to go w their games. Never "head over heels" for it, but w Pat at the helm, it's the most appealing element at the moment...and for me, theme does matter
d) Art - I'm no expert (not by a mile) but does seem overly "busy"...could be wrong there.
d) Music - not truly amazed, but then again, haven't been able to play it along w the tracks
e) price points - sort of is what it is....if I buy one, it will be because it's the one I want...not dictated by the price.

Summary:

This is a game I will HAVE to play before buying...period. Given the CE's aren't projected until "summerish" (hmm), and LE's are limitless, suspect I'll have plenty of time to decide. It just doesn't bring the over the top "wow, have to have it/ landmark" for me without playing first. Doesn't mean I won't own one, but not without playing quite a bit first.

I've been fortunate to be able to put my hands on/play an example of all my machines before purchasing, even the originals (WOZ, Alien, BM66LE). They were pretty much useless at that point. WOZ was a landmark machine, had to have it...truly was amazing at the time ( still is), BM66 was absolutely a slam dunk in theme and art dept (also first Stern w screen)...lyman on the code, again, a no brainer, and amazing when the code caught up, AlienLE was unplayable at expo, but the theme and potential were off the charts for me...I was lucky to get one and make it the reliable monster it was meant to be.

I saw and played DI, it was an easy "no" w zero regrets. Went to expo that year expecting to bring home 3 titles, as Pat is amazing and I WANTED his first new reveal very badly...not to be.

Chris (HEP) has my TZ up on it's legs, and can assure you when I get that back, there will be massive "wow" back in the lineup, and will take a backseat to nothing out there, period. Truthfully, knowing that it's coming home soon, sets the bar very, very high for any new machine adds.

MunstersLE is oddly the only machine that I bought without playing one first (theme just clicked easy for me), and (flame away) it exceeded my expectations for what it was built for.( Mini PF is soo minimized in reviews, but I'll keep it out of this thread). could sell tomorrow, but definitely love it, and not happening.

I WANT a Pat WONKACE!!!!, But will have to play it first......mark

I watched over 3 hours of the reveal stream. It looks like a solid title from JJP. Surprising flow for a Pat Lawler design. I have owned other PL games and they are usually too stop and go for me. I have yet to own a JJP game. I really want a SE POTC and just from the stream I think I still want that more than a Wonka.

There were some GREAT rules explanations from Joe Katz, Keefer and Eric M. Even though they said the game is about 40% coded, there is a lot there! The rules integration with the LCD is truly amazing. Things like the candy jar filling up representing the spinner value. The 5 pedestals that bring up a Gobstopper representing progress(for what I don't remember, Golden Tickets?). The combo indicator to spell Scrumdidilyumptious and cash out like 19 combos looks very challenging. The Kids MB rules with the risk reward of trying to get more kids before starting the MB. Everything about the rule set is likeable for me.

Bottom line: The lower $7500 price point will certainly entice more 1st time JJP buyers.

I definitely agree on the purple!
Change this or give option

I think the purple against the blue in the cab would be great. From a business stand point I understand the blue and red. Probably the same red as my WOZ and the DI blue. Less cost and inventory. I really appreciate the price point the best on what will hopefully be a well built pin we have come to expect.

Excellent points Mark.

The best one is wait it out now and see how it develops. Why not?

The $7500 standard is a really good thing, the artwork is pathetic on it so you just have to look past it

How do you get to $12,500 on a CE?

Have until summer to decide but my initial take is if I get one it would be the standard right now

SE version. Take amour to local paint place and get them done in sparkle purple. Done!

what... the.... hell.... is going on here?

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Match screen? Could be... interesting on some numbers. The four is a little “friendly”

If they were just going to put the logo on the side of the standard, they should have just made it look like a wonka bar!
but even with the less than desirable side art, the standard still seems the way to go to me. I'm just happy to see JJP competing at a lower price point!
great time in pinball.

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Congratulations Jersey Jack, Pat Lawlor, Joe Katz and the team for this sublime masterpiece of a pinball machine! Seeing the stream and all the recently-posted you tube game play accounts and the many close-ups of the playfield and machine components (as well as some early reviews, most quite effusive) I am thrilled beyond words. My initial position on going with the 9,500 LE has been confirmed, and nice to hear they are planning 5000 on the run. The Standard price drop is a wonderful gesture to the entry point denizens, and I don't personally see the need to go the extra 3000 for the CE after looking at what you get but I still salute those wanting to make a statement for their love of this unique and wildly appealing title.

One person is now "hoping" we get the machines by the end of this calendar year. This kind of floored me as I have been led to believe by a number of others on various threads that we can realistically expect shipments before the end of June. Now someone implies the wait may extend six months beyond that?! Wow!! Here:

On another review one is reporting that TOY STORY was scrapped in favor of WW because Disney/Pixar wanted to have a say in the play field design. Said person asserts that Jack understandably refused to make such a bizarre concession. However I wonder if this decision not to go with TS is permanent or is it just a matter of doing WW FIRST and then returning to the TS negotiations. I would think the latter is likely.

One pinball question for anyone willing to respond. If you but an early run machine, how would you be able to add the revised code to it when that time comes? Thank you!

WW has lived up to the hype methinks. Will try to play one at Allentown, but already have reserved an LE with my distributor.

Is the standard art really that bad? Eye of the beholder and what and what not but I don’t think it’s bad at all, it’s a really well done and dynamic treatment of the title. We really should be asking what the underside of the cab looks like, I’ve seen no pictures, what are they hiding?

Yup, LE is basically unlimited.

Gotta love ole Jack from Jersey!

From $7500 to the $12500 vanity pin.

Designed to extract $$ from dummies like myself

Richie is a no brainer #12 but man, I see what you did there Jack

Will I stick with my CE? Let’s see how it comes along. I’m certainly dumb enough

I don't think it's terrible but it appears to be purposely dull to create a differentiation between price points. I don't like the lack of characters on the SE backglass. For that matter, the Photoshop job on the other backglasses is not so good. The side art on the backbox could have been way better for all models.

That being stated, I think the playfield art looks great.

Tex - chocolate review comment is spot on. Where is that? In fact I wish there was more chocolate in general in this game - seems much heavier on the "candy" aspect which is fine but this is WW and the CHOCOLATE factory!

Oompa Centipede

side art for standard is like they just didn't even care. I mean I know they want to keep the 7.5 point but it's almost intention to make it so generic. That being said, I'll take it and not even think twice for that fantastic price.

It was only for a second, but there was a clip in the SDTM stream with Wonka in the boat on the chocolate river, maybe more in there somewhere? The bonus is Wonka bars.

I have concluded the art on the standard is quite sublime actually. In this vein the art of the LE and CE is also top-drawer! Resplendent!

That’s how you sell cars! And pinball machines

Indeed Iceman. But I was shedding the sales pitch for an honest aesthetic judgement.

Well, have to reluctantly say that Wonka just has more wow factor than BKSR.

More flow as well.

It does look fantastic.

That said going back to theme, don't like the sound package and more likely to end up with BKSR one day.

JJP will sell bucket loads of these.

You overlooked one major comparison - layout of Wonka is A++ vs B for WOZ. You can see this one shoots like butta baby. It’s as clear as the nose on your face. Surely with that, there’s enough to tip the scales for you to decide before playing one, but you’ve pointed out there is no hurry to act. CEs will be available for awhile so you can flip first, and then decide what’s right for you. HEY People! that’s how it should be.

Of games you’d like it feel like wanting to play one more game of, I am hoping it will polish into a BM66 type vibe.

Love the game, and really excited to add it to my lineup.
My only gripes:
1) wish the armor wasn’t red on the CE. I was expecting a golden sparkle like a golden ticket or something...not a ruby red WoZ look.
2) the music seemed a little repetitive or just off. It sounds great for a game or two, but after watching the stream, it seemed a like we needed some more variety. (Hopefully early code issues)
3) more immersive clips please (also hopefully early code issues). I was hoping for more Hobbit/WoZ type film integration. But with full movie assets, I’m expecting more down the road

Game looks like a super fun shooter and I bet looks fantastic in person but . . . you need the oompa loompa songs in there for it to be Wonka for me. The pop bumber noises just tease it even more. Overall, the music and call outs were just okay. This can be really hard to judge on streams and maybe it's great in person, but I thought for sure they'd nail this aspect of the theme and right now I'd give them a B-. I'd blame this on the new sound guy but to be honest I thought it was a weakness of Dialed In as well -- a lot of the music, call outs were more annoying than fun.

Finally, the SE side art is embarrassing if what I've seen is accurate. It's actually kind of insulting especially when compared to the way Stern does their art between models. I don't feel like I'm being cheap spending $7500 on a pinball machine -- if they're going to make it look like crap on purpose there is ZERO percent chance I will buy it. It really soured me on the whole pin and I'm out for now. I admit this will seem silly to some to get so pissy over side art/back glass art and maybe it is, but I can't shake the feeling and I guess why fight it if it's going to save me $7500.

Dig the lower price point. This is my fav theme by far from JJP. Looks like Lawlor gave it some flow which is what I like in games and why past Lawlor/JJp games are tough for me to enjoy.

All that being said - get the games out the door! Please, with sugar and a cherry on top. You are only hurting yourselves.

We also need to keep in mind the licensors are probably charging for each appearance of Gene and other likenesses on each game. I'm seeing 5 appearances on the limited edition and only 2 on the standard.

The custom jobs on this will look like the CE should have . Some have said purple armor but I think mother of pearl white armor and legs with a hint purple and to a lesser degree. Other colors running through it wii be the pearl of any collection . Like all new pins , code needs to get better .

Hilarious!

Is that 40? Can you match 69 on JJP?

Honestly, if they just brainstormed that “4” for about 5 more minutes, nobody has to endure any junk in their grill.

Coming around to considering the SE, but it’s totally lame that the side art is the same as the LE except they removed Gene. It’s as if they went out of their way to downgrade the art. Stern at least provides great art for their pros. Have to play it I suppose....

This was a clever way to do game rules.

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Same thoughts here. The side art is too lame on the Stanard model and JJP needs to address the fact before they go into production. Stern pro models have a lot more detailed side art and I would think JJP could do the same at a minimal cost. Sometimes on the Sterns , I prefer the pro art work over the Premiums and LE's.
Other than the lame side art on the Standard, the game looks beautiful and looks fun to shoot. Might have to add it to my collection someday.

I don't understand this comment. We all knew who K was before he started his podcast. He starts his podcast, and fools (colloquially, not literally) fall all over themsevles and the guy gets a TWIPY...

And he's no different from any other huckster that's ever existed, which you would think was predictable given his history. I think that as a demographic, pinball people must be the most WILLFULLY IGNORANT crowd people to exist. Like...we just want all these good things so badly we're completely incapable of seeing the tidal wave of sewage bearing down on us right behind the mirage.

Pinball consumers, myself included, lose their ever loving F ing minds when it comes to buying pins

Fickle and like we are in some alternate universe

That said, the beer will be flowing again tonight while I enjoy my pins and justify buying the CE in my altered state of mind

Ahhhh the insanity of it all

I LOVE IT!!!!!!

I know it's nice to have awesome side art, but for people like me it won't be that big of a deal, as it will be sandwiched between machines. I imagine that's the case for many others.

Keeping my CE spot untill I flip it and see the topper in action. Machine is growing on me watching the videos, but you have to flip a machine.

IMDN was not on my radar at all,didn't watch the reveal nor any streams.
Played a premium on location last month, fell in love, and now it's in my basement.

Needs an Oompa Loompa mode

And where is the Chocolate river? Multiball or mini wizard.

Need a few more branches on that Code sheet up there please

Oompa Loompa Karma Sutra!