(Topic ID: 239350)

Wonka is Coming !!! Who’s in?


By Beez

6 months ago



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There are 2284 posts in this topic. You are on page 16 of 46.
#751 6 months ago

Agreed on the need for more original titles. I will probably never buy Wonka, but when it comes to themes, I think its one of the better ones I've seen (for my tastes anyway).

#752 6 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

But ... the hype is fever pitch because it's a familiar theme, and people are all in without seeing it.

I actually don't think this is true. I'm not really interested in the theme, and I'm sure many others aren't either. Sure, for some the theme might be causing the excitement but probably for many people the hype has to do with the fact that this is a new Lawlor JJP machine and it seems that this might be a significant moment for the company. JJP are known for coming up with original ideas in terms of layout, rules, mechanisms and display and we all saw what Lawlor did with his first attempt for the company. Many are excited because those who have seen the game have said positive things and it seems that JJP might have learnt from their previous mistakes and will show something special. People have been waiting for a machine that clearly and definitively surpasses those of the Bally/Williams era for a long time now and there is always hope that this will be the one.

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#753 6 months ago

You can't just be "not a license", just like you can't just be "hand drawn" and have people love the art. Theme still matters. Look at Full Throttle. Hand drawn art! No license! Really boring theme no on wanted!

Dialed In might be a good game, but no matter how many people try and patiently explain it's not a "cell phone game", it's a cell phone game. That's what people see. It's how the game was promoted (I was there, I got the comic book). It's how it was named. And it was, in my opinion, a misstep. A lot of work was put into it, and it just needed a different promotional angle. Everyone has suggestions, call it Disaster City or whatever, but they're all similar in thinking, fix the cell phone image problem.

Oktoberfest, not a license, great. But ... do people really want an Oktoberfest game? I'm not seeing the excitement. I think they should have picked something easier to sell and theme personally.

What 90s unlicensed games do we love? Games about magicians! Attacking castles! Defending Earth from UFOs! Be adventurous, use that imagination.

Quoted from solarvalue:

I actually don't think this is true.

I mean, we can agree to disagree, but the threads and posts are all right here to see. It's not subtle. Everyone has their own back story and motivations, I'm just talking about on the whole. And it's like this for everything. Munsters was the same things. Hype hype hype. Now it's crickets because the game ended up being too simple for most of the players here. Theme only takes you so far. But how many Munsters are for sale now, because people blindly bought on the theme out of love for the show? It's a simple trick, and it works.

-1
#754 6 months ago

Actually Theater of Magic was intended to be a licensed theme (David Copperfield) and ended up being non licensed and one of the most liked machines of all time. Licensing doesn't mean jack, it’s how good you personally like the game. Personally I do t care what everyone else thinks, if I like the machine - I get it

#755 6 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Everyone has their own back story and motivations, I'm just talking about on the whole.

Right, this is all I'm saying. I think there's a myriad of reasons for the excitement, many of which have to do with the whole recent history of pinball up until this point rather than simply the theme of this game. I don't really see why anyone would be disappointed by the excitement, I think life is too short for that. We have had original themes from both of the major companies recently and I don't see any reason why there won't be more from them or from any of the increasing number of new manufacturers. Furthermore, new innovations like the Multimorphic P3-Roc control system and the P3 multi-game platform make the likelihood of original-themed games much more likely in the future.

#756 6 months ago

25 Hours to go.....Who's got that countdown clock....that was funny.

#757 6 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

25 Hours to go.....Who's got that countdown clock....that was funny.

https://countingdownto.com/?c=2438459

#758 6 months ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Remember though...that was not actually Slugworth. In the movie that guy turns out to work for Willy Wonka and was testing the kids. Can't recall his real name in the film.

Awwww SPOILER ALERT!

#759 6 months ago
Quoted from Charliew65:

Awwww SPOILER ALERT!

I put off watching it for the first time until the night before the reveal!!! Or not lol.

#760 6 months ago

I don't always make memes, but when I do, I prefer pure imagination.

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#761 6 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Looks like we are getting 500 CE's to make up for the "margin loss" on the regular edition.

I actually heard there was going to be a limited amount of the lower priced standard games available.

#762 6 months ago

I just watched Wonka for the first time in decades. Actually it was on TV in our breakroom a few weeks back so I watched a bit then. But now watching it for the first time since I was young, I have to say the movie was ok, I didn't love it but thought it was good in parts and not that good in other parts. Gene Wilder made the movie, he stole the show although some of the bratty kids were not bad either. I think the setting and story will make a fine pinball machine but it is certainly not a dream theme for me. It will have to win me over by the usual pinball ways of shots, layout, toys, lighting and code.

There are a dozen great lines for sure and probably 50+ good lines that can be used as callous for various characters. But this will have to be a Tron for me. what I mean is that pin ball machine *to me* is better than the movie, mean the movie was fine but not the greatest (like Blade Runner or various other movies in my opinion) so the pinball machine Tron Legacy took various bits and settings, characters, callouts and made them into a fantastic overall pinball machine.

Now I will watch movie like Tron or the newer Star Trek movies not so much because they are all time great movies but more because they have more meaning to me since they are pinball machines.

#763 6 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Theme matters. This is indisputable. Whether or not you're tired of pinball being dominated by licenses is something else. Here's what bums me out: almost no one here has seen the game, just some little hints. JJP doesn't skimp on toys and features, whatever you think of their games or prices, so excitement is fine, really. Be hype, it's okay.
But ... the hype is fever pitch because it's a familiar theme, and people are all in without seeing it. You're basically an idiot if you run a pinball company and don't use a license now. Even Spooky is doing licenses. And it's because of this phenomenon. We basically beg for the familiar. "I can't wait to hear my favorite movie quotes!" I pine for the unfamiliar, the surprise, the new thing, not the old thing.
I just wish there was a better mix of original game ideas too. After Dialed In didn't catch fire with people maybe JJP is done with trying, I dunno. The 90s pinball we all say we love was a mix. Most of the beloved games from that era like AFM and MM were original, and there were licenses that were still 'free and open' like Scared Stiff and Monster Bash. Those mixed familiar with new, not just staying safe.

Actually I think it has to do with it being too original. It's not really a 'new' game, it's the third in a series, it's basically a license. But people had their own visions of what it should be. They wanted it to be about medieval knights for instance, and don't like the monsters, whatever. It took a little different turn, and is getting blowback for it. It's hard to judge it on its own merits because it comes with the baggage of two previous games, and what people already expected because of that. Nevermind that the BK2000 backglass has a sci fi landscape and demonic castle on it.

Thanks, and I'm glad you like it. For all the issues I think the package evokes the films well, and I don't think it's a bad thing. I don't automatically hate licenses. But that said, so many of the nightmares around making that game were related to the restrictions a license brings. For every little thing it helped there was something it hurt. There's no question my experience with that colors my views of how games are made these days.

I appreciate your passion for originality and creativity. You want a fresh theme. No problem with that, but it’s so fraught with uncertainty. Look what happened to JJP and Dialed In! And that’s arguably a great game (!!) and the theme isn’t even that bad!

But I look at it way differently. What I’m tired of is the lousy CHOICE of themes and to compound things, the lousy implementation of themes, even when they’re good themes.

Stern, back in the day: WOF, CSI, 24, NBA...I mean, wtf were they thinking? No wonder they almost went out of business. JJP: Hobbit and POTC...Jesus, could you pick anything less inspiring and insipid? Everyone agreed the Hobbit trilogy was a bloated piece of suck, but JJP presses on. And POTC? It was tired 3 movies ago...this isn’t Rocket science people.

Here’s a pro tip: pick pop culture icons and favorites. Pick Cult classics. Be COOL. Be edgy. Safe is lame.

Here’s an easy no brainer list of instant hits - provided you don’t fuck it up (you need the assets! And some cool shit under glass):

The Matrix, Pulp Fiction, Jaws, Spinal Tap, The Godfather, Back to the Future, Alien, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Stripes, Trading Places, The Jerk, Oceans 11 and sequels, Bourne Identity series, Despicable Me series, Marvel Universe, Fight Club, Kill Bill, Good Fellas, Something...anything...with Denzel Washington...and for music: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Nirvana......

Give me time, I’ll come up with 20 more. This is easy. Why are these companies shooting themselves in the foot with all these half assed bullshit releases?

To be fair, Deadpool is an awesome theme, but they blew the license for the lack of proper assets. Munsters is decent license, no real criticism there. And WONKA is outstanding. That There have been so many great ideas in this thread alone that if JJp fucked this up I’ll be really bummed.

#764 6 months ago

POTCCE seemed to be a bigger leap from the LE version than the DICE before it ... do you anticipate JJP making this CE even more differentiated from other versions?

#765 6 months ago

an observation was made by someone who played wonka last week that the mechs appeared to LESS complex than earlier JJP games and felt they would break down less, thus requiring less upkeep/maintenance. sounds pretty cool if a simpler game could captivate mainly on improvements in the areas of sculpts/plastics/visuals. IMHO, it would mean such games could have been made all along.

and as far as expectations for this game go...dont forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.

#766 6 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

Dont forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.

What happened?

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#767 6 months ago

He lived happily ever after.

#768 6 months ago

1 more sleep there Gentlemen! Or 2 if you take an afternoon nap.

#769 6 months ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

I actually heard there was going to be a limited amount of the lower priced standard games available.

The “truely” limited edition!

#770 6 months ago

Well, really that man took out a home equity loan, maxed out his credit cards and bought ever NIB pin. Now he's bankrupt but lives in a nice size JJP POTC shipping box lol.

#771 6 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

an observation was made by someone who played wonka last week that the mechs appeared to LESS complex than earlier JJP games and felt they would break down less, thus requiring less upkeep/maintenance. sounds pretty cool if a simpler game could captivate mainly on improvements in the areas of sculpts/plastics/visuals. IMHO, it would mean such games could have been made all along.
and as far as expectations for this game go...dont forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.

The less complex mech possibility is very interesting as while more reliable (anything that doesn't move as much will be) it may also represent a form of cost cutting. I hope that's not the case, can't really judge anything right now without seeing pictures / video and ultimately playing the game.

There's been complex mech's in a number of pins for 20+ years, the TZ gumball machine, the hand in TAF, etc. Today we have the large beast pop up mechs / Smaug in Hobbit, the monkey mech in WOZ, the ship in JJP POTC, etc. All require some tweaking now and again but all are fun toys to have in the game. If JJP wants to make their games more reliable on location games then I can see them scaling back the complexity a bit, just sucks that it means the price will remain the same or go up.

#772 6 months ago

Whats the thing with the #12 ?
Do we Know how many LE's are being made?

#773 6 months ago

I always wish the best for whatever pin from whomever to be great. The theme for me is meh, but what I don't understand is people who buy site unseen. Believe me I'm happy for you folks that have disposable income, but are you hoping you're buying a game that exponentially increases in value? Thus far I haven't seen a JJP game increase? You know the code will be mediocre and you'll have to wait for 2-3 years before the code is truly shined up. By then you get bored and want to sell? Not to mention thus far the track record of design flaws plaguing new JJP releases. Every WOZ I played had freaking upper left playfield stuck ball issues and the hobbit had it's fair share of issues! I just played the Hobbit for the first time a couple months ago and loved it. I bought a Black Arrow the following month and yes all fixes and latest code. I get to enjoy a polished game with no design flaws, excellent code and I didn't have to pay the "new hot item" price for it. If Wonka rocks as much as the hype says it does, I can wait 3 years and then enjoy it when it's polished and let the first owner take the financial beating for it. For the record I'm excited to see it too, just not in line to buy one.

#774 6 months ago

When I think the film is dated, I just imagine the river as raw sewage. Makes it instantly feel contemporary.

#775 6 months ago
Quoted from Toads:

Whats the thing with the #12 ?
Do we Know how many LE's are being made?

The right answer i think is "as many as Jack can sell". i.e. Woz

500 on the CE.

Are there really 500 pin buyers of anything at $12,500?

#776 6 months ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Remember though...that was not actually Slugworth. In the movie that guy turns out to work for Willy Wonka and was testing the kids. Can't recall his real name in the film.

Mr. Wilkinson.

#777 6 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The right answer i think is "as many as Jack can sell". i.e. Woz
500 on the CE.
Are there really 500 pin buyers of anything at $12,500?

500 CE's?! What a way to destroy the collectibility factor for CE owners. 500 used to be considered high for LE's and JJP blew past that. I always thought the whole CE and SLE concept was dumb but at least the counts were fairly limited (200 was pushing it for DI CE and Pirates CE). 500 though...no way. The LE model probably won't even be limited and if that's the case why even call it a limited edition model?

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#778 6 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I hope it's everything you want.

Why are ya always passively negative on every new game then follow up with a public announcement of how you’re not buying it?...it’s ok to ride the hype train without buying...its fun really!

#779 6 months ago
Quoted from Toads:

Whats the thing with the #12 ?
Do we Know how many LE's are being made?

Joe said that bids were up to 17,500 for the #12 CE Model - Which I was hoping maybe I get a cut of that -- But I know some have been blowing up his phone and / or texting him - ALL IN FUN.

#781 6 months ago

# 12 has been sold to Nitro Pinball!

#782 6 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

500 CE's?! What a way to destroy the collectibility factor for CE owners. 500 used to be considered high for LE's and JJP blew past that. I always thought the whole CE and SLE concept was dumb but at least the counts were fairly limited (200 was pushing it for DI CE and Pirates CE). 500 though...no way. The LE model probably won't even be limited and if that's the case why even call it a limited edition model?

I've never understood why JJP even calls it an "LE".

That's probably what I'll end up with though.

There is nothing "collectible" about 500 games i don't care what the title is, especially at $12,500.

However, i still can't see them selling more than 200-300 CE's anyhow.

#783 6 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The right answer i think is "as many as Jack can sell". i.e. Woz
500 on the CE.
Are there really 500 pin buyers of anything at $12,500?

You know at first I was like JOE - IS JJP crazy for 12,500 for the DI game and the thing with the Dinner and Jacket I thought was just crazy - But the dinner was nice gesture to say thanks to those of the CE Club and the Jackets were special - I dont think they will go that route again - but the POTC CE Model was just Awesome - I love the topper and the playfield was different from the other models and I thought that was neat and special and with only 200 - To me that was Limited

So now that we are just hours to the WWCF CE Model - I want JJP to just hit it out the park - I personally hope the CE is limited to small numbers like 250 or 300 -- But if JJP can sell 500 CE Models @ 12,500.00 each (with the exception of the #12 CE, I had to place my bid to 17,600 to keep the number, LOL)....

But back back to the MAYBE 500 CE Models - If they can sell 500 of them - MORE POWER TO JJP - GO FOR IT.

I just want it to be special and unique. To me the POTC CE was different and worth every penny - I WAS and STILL happy of the POTC CE MODEL - I am happy for all of JJP Games - I have the first (4) and I am so excited to see this one and once it is among us at the show -- I question will be....When we we get the CE Models out - Which I am thinking about 2 to 3 months from now. I hope that will be a CE Model to play at the show. - Remember the POTC CE Model was not able to be played at the Chicago Expo - But they had a prototype cabinet at the show.

I want to see this one and I hope it is different from the other versions and the CE Model Rocks so bad that people out there are going to find a way to pay for the $12,500.00 to get there hands on it.

So if it is 500 -- Bring it on - I would be surprise - But it could happen

#784 6 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I've never understood why JJP even calls it an "LE".
That's probably what I'll end up with though.
There is nothing "collectible" about 500 games i don't care what the title is, especially at $12,500.
However, i still can't see them selling more than 200-300 CE's anyhow.

I agree - I think it will be more than 200 from what I have been told - But I dont know the number -- I think 250 to 300.

But what do I know .....

I do know that that are making at least 12.....that I do know for sure.

#785 6 months ago

Joe says that he is still taking bids up to 6 pm on Friday for CE #12...or he might cut off the bids at 3AM tonight.

Have to text Joe and ask him --

#786 6 months ago

I want JJP to sell as many as they can - It will be great for JJP and for Pinball as well.

Lets get this going and done with and once it is all over - We will be asking for JJP #6 Toy Story by end of this year - With a hopeful Chicago Expo Exposure

#787 6 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I agree - I think it will be more than 200 from what I have been told - But I dont know the number -- I think 250 to 300.
But what do I know .....
I do know that that are making at least 12.....that I do know for sure.

LOL, they are skipping #12 this time, retiring the number!

We will find out tomorrow, I'm as excited as you are Ritchie. I was told "up to 500 CE's" and i can't wait to see how they make it special and unique this time. I agree that POTCCE is very cool with the topper and artwork., not so much on the barnacles.

#788 6 months ago

I heard all CE’s with the exception of #12 were getting powder coated coin doors.

#789 6 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

But I look at it way differently. What I’m tired of is the lousy CHOICE of themes and to compound things, the lousy implementation of themes, even when they’re good themes.

Dead right. There are a million theme ideas out there that are good. Find one you can work with. Don't pick something that won't give you great assets and free rein to do cool things. I'm sure JJP learned their lesson from Pirates, can you imagine Wonka with no actor shots?

If you think a license is the way to sell games, you're probably right. But for all the time and effort a game takes, and the money they cost when they're done, why not make it the best you can from the start? Be a little pickier, take a little time to get it right up front.

It was amazing how many things on Alien we had no clue if we were going to be able to use until years into the project. But it was horribly managed, and dealing with a movie studio license across two countries a giant pain in the ass. If you can't find out for sure ahead of time then move on to one you can.

Find someone you can work with, make something cool together.

#790 6 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Joe says that he is still taking bids up to 6 pm on Friday for CE #12...or he might cut off the bids at 3AM tonight.
Have to text Joe and ask him --

What is the provenance with number 12?

/outoftheloop

#791 6 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

What is the provenance with number 12?
/outoftheloop

Shhhhh--- Joe is trying to SLEEEEEP --- But I just sent this to him as a pitch to JJP

Free year supply of Dove Chocolate and a FREE Richie Wrench Bobble Head .....

WE WILL SELL A TON - Over 1000 CE Models - Bobble Head Alone makes it worth it.

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#792 6 months ago

Watching Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory tonight. Lol

#793 6 months ago

On a side note -- If anyone really wants a Bobble Head and promise to not abuse him and try to kill him or use it for shooting practice - PM me and I will put you on a list - I am going to place my order for some more and willing to give some out to those that like the Richie Wrench Character.

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#794 6 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

an observation was made by someone who played wonka last week that the mechs appeared to LESS complex than earlier JJP games and felt they would break down less, thus requiring less upkeep/maintenance. sounds pretty cool if a simpler game could captivate mainly on improvements in the areas of sculpts/plastics/visuals. IMHO, it would mean such games could have been made all along.
and as far as expectations for this game go...dont forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.

If you look at DI the mechs are reliable. Most of the problems are on the phone, the theater magnet and the drones. I am lucky my phone has been problem free, it is such a great use of an lcd on a play field. My drones have also been trouble free, they still spin. The theater magnet was an easy fix in adjustments. The actual mechs on the play field have been solid including the theater, which is amazing when coupled with the magnet and display. The theater implementation is what I wanted on my GBLE. I am guessing is that they will eliminate items like the drones, I am hoping that they don’t eliminate the play field lcd. It has been great on TH, DI and POTC.

#795 6 months ago
Quoted from BigT:

I am hoping that they don’t eliminate the play field lcd.

My guess is that a playfield LCD and camera = Wonkavision.

#796 6 months ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

My guess is that a playfield LCD and camera = Wonkavision.

I forgot the camera....my kids play DI because of that camera. I don’t know anyone who has had issues with it. I am looking forward to seeing how it is implemented.

#797 6 months ago

How many more Wonka threads by this time tomorrow night?
At least 10 is my guess.

#798 6 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

How many more Wonka threads by this time tomorrow night?
At least 10 is my guess.

NOOOOOO!!!!!

This is Crazy -- THERE MUST BE LIMITS!!!!

#799 6 months ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

Why are ya always passively negative on every new game then follow up with a public announcement of how you’re not buying it?...it’s ok to ride the hype train without buying...its fun really!

Someone mentioned backhanded... glad I’m not the only one seeing it! Anyways.... I wasn’t nutso over the Wonka title but man have I came around - now it’s like Christmas Eve waiting for this. My wife heard Kanedas podcast and now she’s all excited to get it.... we’re in!

#800 6 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I've never understood why JJP even calls it an "LE".
That's probably what I'll end up with though.
There is nothing "collectible" about 500 games i don't care what the title is, especially at $12,500.
However, i still can't see them selling more than 200-300 CE's anyhow.

IMO JJP’s LE should not be labeled as an LE. It should be classified as premium, but stern has already taken that name. JJP LE just have the upgrades that most people want...powder coated armor, invisiglass, upgraded lighting, shaker motor and some cosmetic details.

In other threads you have mentioned that the current pricing has taken the flippers out of the game and I completely agree. When you flirt with 9k price pins lose their value. Stern LE’s sell at a substantial loss compared to the pros and premiums. Something that has hurt JJP is that their pins sell for substantial lower in the secondary market, POTC is their first exception. I am hoping that WONKA has a limited time for production and no special releases, but I am not holding my breath.

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