(Topic ID: 208985)

GTB - power cord hot to transformer neutral to fuse or vice-versa

By spinal

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 14 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by ajfclark
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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“How should hot and neutral be connected to transformer and fuse?”

  • hot to transformer, neutral to fuse 1 vote
    11%
  • hot to fuse, neutral to transformer 8 votes
    89%
  • order does not matter 0 votes

(9 votes)

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#1 6 years ago

Inspired by the threads linked below, and because I'm a newb currently changing some power cords for the first time, I checked all six of my Gottlieb wedgeheads last night (1974-1977)...

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Three of them have hot going to the transformer (& neutral to fuse) and the other three have have hot going to fuse (& neutral to transformer).
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I should add that all have original factory cords inside except for one of the ones where hot goes to fuse (cord was previously changed).

This evidence leads me to believe that Gottlieb did not care at the factory what order this was done.

Please check your factory power cord connections on your own machines and post pics and comment below.

Please vote (thanks).

Perhaps this is a Gottlieb thing and perhaps not but I really want to get to the bottom of this issue and looking forward to having the experts chime in (thanks everyone)!

Attached is pic of my Sky Jump ('74) showing ribbed part of cord (neutral) going to fuse.

How to change power cords (thanks vid):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-line-cords-plugs-wall-sockets-vids-guide

Pinside is split on grounding:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-you-ground-your-ungrounded-ems-poll

The thread that sparked me to check my EMs:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sky-jump-wont-start/page/2#post-4209860
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sky-jump-wont-start/page/2#post-4209947

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#2 6 years ago

I should add that in the case of my 1974 (factory ungrounded) Sky Jump above, it shouldn't make a difference what side is connected because 50% of the time the plug will be plugged into the wall one way and 50% of the time the other, thereby switching them anyway.

But in later years, Gottlieb had factory grounded cords where I'm thinking this should make a difference.

Here is my 1977 C37 with neutral (ribbed) going to fuse:

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#3 6 years ago

My 1975 Abra Ca Dabra has hot to fuse and neutral (ribbed) to transformer

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#4 6 years ago

I always, when replacing cord (I use a polarized cord) attach the hot to the fuse and the neutral to the transformer (return). Does it matter, probably not but standard design suggests the hot is fused.

#5 6 years ago

To quote the other thread

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sky-jump-wont-start/page/2

We want as little of the electrics to be hot when the switch is open. Looking at the schematic:

With the switch open:

If the active/hot is on the right, everything under the transformer is connected to hot except the main fuse. Bumping the reset coils hurts and there's no fuse in the circuit if you ground them.
If the active/hot is on the left, the active/hot is connected to the fuse and then the switch.
"Therefore we want the active/hot to go to the fuse and the neutral to complete the circuit on the transformer."

#6 6 years ago

Hot to fuse, but obviously only relevant with a polarized or grounded plug.

#7 6 years ago

Thanks for your responses. Vid agrees with you both that when changing cord, hot goes to fuse:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-line-cords-plugs-wall-sockets-vids-guide#post-1945121

Quoted from pinhead52:

We want as little of the electrics to be hot when the switch is open. Looking at the schematic:
With the switch open:
If the active/hot is on the right, everything under the transformer is connected to hot except the main fuse. Bumping the reset coils hurts and there's no fuse in the circuit if you ground them.
If the active/hot is on the left, the active/hot is connected to the fuse and then the switch.
"Therefore we want the active/hot to go to the fuse and the neutral to complete the circuit on the transformer."

I will change to this way, just want to know all the reasons why this is preferred- thanks.

So the main reason to put hot to fuse is that there is then less risk of shock while working on plugged-in game?

#8 6 years ago

Here in the UK, I fit the hot/live to the the fuse and neutral to the transformer. Reason being that UK plugs are fused on the live/hot so its just using the same line really. I fit 5 amp fuses too, many use the default 13amp because they are either lazy or just dont realise why fuses have different ratings for different reasons!

#9 6 years ago

Here is a larger shot of part of C37 schematics for the purpose of discussing this.

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#10 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

want to know all the reasons why this is preferred- thanks.
So the main reason to put hot to fuse is that there is more risk of shock while working on plugged-in game?

Yes. That way if the fuse blows or the game is switched off it's safer.

#11 6 years ago

OK thanks everyone - makes sense. But still have the question if anyone else noticed that Gottlieb did not do this consistently at least during '74-'77. Anyone else have hot to transformer from factory?

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

OK thanks everyone - makes sense. But still have the question if anyone else noticed that Gottlieb did not do this consistently at least during '74-'77. Anyone else have hot to transformer from factory?

All my Gottlieb's had it to the fuse. You can view my list of machines to see what I have had in the past.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

All my Gottlieb's had it to the fuse. You can view my list of machines to see what I have had in the past.

Took a look - long list of games you've had! I still can't explain why three of my EM's would be wired hot to transformer...

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

Took a look - long list of games you've had! I still can't explain why three of my EM's would be wired hot to transformer...

Because the significance of the wiring wasn't important to the person installing the cord.

DC has a definite + and - side. It's super important to get it right so people are really careful.

AC works regardless of which way you hook it up. The switch still turns the machine off. The machine works fine either way. The importance is less apparent.

I think it might also be because in the US, it didn't matter. The plugs were reversible anyway weren't they or is that European ones? Australia has always had power points that were polarised (and often switched) so we could reliably tell which pin should be active:
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Again, because AC works either way, it's not uncommon to find a powerpoint hooked up by a DIY moron reversed, and the switch only breaks the neutral. :-/

Ideally, the cabinet switch should be DPST so both active and neutral can be opened. With the older machines with SPST switches, switching the active is the better option of the two, but this still leaves you vulenerable to miswired powerpoints.

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