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(Topic ID: 148402)

Gtb Jungle Queen - rules of play ?

By rolf_martin_062

4 years ago

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  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by rolf_martin_062
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#1 4 years ago

Hi pinsiders
I am trying to help in a German Forum. The problem is : When stepping to next player / next ball: Smetimes a Drop-Down-Target-Bank is NOT resetted - Is this wanted (a Carry-Over-Feature) ? Or is it a fault ?

The "P-Add-Player" relay is involved. The "U-???" relay is involved - is it the "First-Ball-Relay" ? - is it in a bank ? - is it a Interlock-Type-Relay ? - is it a "simple relay with Self-Hold-Switch" ?

The Jungle Queen has a DDT-Bank on the left - and one on the right - at what time is resetted - which bank resetted ? (rules o play)

Please tell me, Greetings Rolf

#2 4 years ago

Check out the Bowen Kerins PAPA tutorial video as well as some of the PAPA tournament videos that have Jungle Queen with multiple players competing. Those might help. Here is link to find the videos:

#3 4 years ago

Banks are reset at the beginning of each ball only.

#4 4 years ago

Rolf, on a 2 or 4-player game (any game for more than one player), there are no carryover features. Each ball or player starts from the beginning with everything reset as it is on the first ball.

On Jungle Queen, none of the drop targets ever reset during a ball. They go down, they stay down.

On the problem you are having on the reset, it helps to know if the reset problem is that one bank sometimes never resets at all, or if just one or two of the targets come up on reset and then drop back down without being hit. Another important question is if the problem occurs starting a game, or when a ball ends? Those are two different circuits. Please tell me.

If the problem is that one side never resets at all after a ball is lost, and the other side always resets when it should, it is a wiring problem because both banks are reset through the same circuit. If one side always works, then the circuit is working. I would look for a bad solder connection on the reset coil on the bank that isn't working. Also, check the fuse holders. Each reset bank coil has a fuse, probably found on the bottom of the playfield. They are 2 amp slow blow. Make sure the fuse holder is tight and clean so the fuse makes contact tight and all the time.

Last thing is a switch at motor position 4B with an orange wire, or a switch on U or P relay with a purple wire.

#5 4 years ago

thanks for writing - chet, the videos are good - the tutorial does NOT mention "will be reset during play" -> I assume the pin ONLY resets when stepping to next Player / ball (and at start-up).
Funny - my Number One "Far Out / Out of Sight" - in a tournament - the player has NEVER seen a Far Out / Out of Sight" - huuuh : they are talking about the rule set ...

Waddle and Joe clearly point out "reset only at stepping to next player / ball". My problem is: That german owner (I live in Switzerland, some 300 miles away) has not yet told me about the "U-???" relay. I show the snippet of schema I have (JPG). It is wired as my Far Out - but Far Out HAS A RELAY-BANK. (Far Out also ONLY resets the DDT's when stepping to next player / next ball.)

My Surf Champ has only 5 DDT's - it resets when stepping to next player / next ball. AND IT DOES RESET (while playing a ball) when I hit all 5 DDT's AND I hit all 5 Rollover-Buttons (thats nice - gives me points).

Joe, "NO carry-over feature on 2 / 4 player pins" - I agree on "later EM's WITH a Bonus-Ladder" (that means: I have never seen a carry-over on such ( Bonus-Ladder) machines).
I do NOT agree on older 4-player pins (having not yet a bonus ladder): I have a Jolly Roger: - the rule-set is simple: A stepper is stepped 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 1 -> 2 -> 3 etc. - Each time I hit the lighted cannon ball in the middle of the playfield. The stepper also steps If I hit one of the three rollover-buttons on top.
As it steps: The lanes on top are lighted: Left-left -> Left-Middle -> Middle-Right -> Right-right -> ALL lanes are lightet (Bingo-Bingo) -> and again and again ...
I have "two bumpers lit" -> "Other two Bumpers lit " -> the first two bumpers again" -> the other two bumpers again" -> ALL bumpers are lit (Bingo-Bingo) -> and again and again ...
And it that precious Position 5 (Bingo-Bingo): Center targets gives 10 times value - on the left I can gain an Extraball. This feature Pos-1, -2, -3 ... does NOT RESET from player to next player / next ball ( So in a tournament I hope for Starting with Pos-4).

My first love "Shangri La": does reset the playfield-features (lights), Yes --- BUT: The Center target is actually "four targets - each time hit it turns 90 degrees" - the targets a "Red-1", "White-1", "Blue-1", "Star".
THIS TARGET(s) IS A CARRY-OVER - most valuable is "I see the "WHITE-1" - NO RESET.
Thanks, Greetings Rolf


#6 4 years ago

Rolf, I am not sure what your question is at this point....U relay is shown on the schematic snippet, and Jungle Queen has a relay sequence bank that keeps up with the A B C rollovers.

#7 4 years ago

Hi Joe
The german man is talking about "U-First-UNIT-Relay" - I would like to see a common / simple "U-First-BALL-Relay". My Far Out has a Relay-Bank and the U-Relay" is in there - my Surf Champ has no longer the Relay-Bank (has AX-Relay etc.) - but the function on the U-Relay is the same (it has a "Self-Hold-Switch").

With that snippet I can say "WHEN 'U' pulls: S-Start-Relay activates the 3 banks / the P-Add-Player-Relay does activate the 3 banks --- BUT: HOW / WHEN is that mysterious "U-??? activated / de-activated ? If it is a UNIT: What logic is in / with that UNIT ?
(Another question: What is in the Sequence-Bank good for ?)
I have that snippet of the schema - and I would like to get a simple / clear answer (from him / from an owner.
Greetings Rolf

#8 4 years ago

Rolf, first let me say that your English is outstanding. And I am pretty sure that you speak excellent German, plus another language or two. I lived in Dusseldorf for a couple of years, and my German is VERY BAD.

We need to get to understand the problem better:

1. Does one side always reset fine, every time, on startup and after a ball?
2. Do both sides always reset fine on startup?
3. Does one side sometimes not reset any targets at all?
4. Does one side sometimes reset less than all the targets?

It would help if you would answer those questions!

On Jungle Queen, the U is the First Ball Relay. It also has the AX relay. The U relay on Jungle Queen is the First Ball Relay, which engages through the tens or hundreds relays as soon as the points are scored on a new game, and it remains energized throughout the remaining balls in the game. As I said before, the path to the drop reset coils is through motor position 4B with an orange wire, or a switch on the U or the P relay with a purple wire. P is the Add Player Relay and is activated by the trough switch...not the outhole, the one between the outhole and the shooter lane.

#9 4 years ago

Hi Joe
The german man wrote:
If all targets in a target bank are hit and down: THIS Bank will NOT reset (until Game-Over - Start of a new game).
When it is a 2-player game: One player knocks down all targets in a bank -> the other player gets his ball - BUT the bank does NOT reset. The strange thing is: IF THE BANK IS NOT COMPLETELY DOWN - Changing to "next player / next ball": the bank DOES reset. - Conclusion: this is a "Carry-Over feature" - but I do not like it ...

He wrote about "U-First UNIT Relay" - he showed that snippet of schema. He has not given answer to "U-?????? question" - no description, no picture, no snippet of schema.

I hinted: Mount PARALLEL a Household lamp to the "Coil of a bank-reset" - do this on all three Banks. Have long wires -> through the open cash-door -> lay these 3 lamps onto the playfield-glass - play many games and watch: AAA - Everytime "a / the" bank does NOT reset: The lamp does NOT light-up. BBB - Everytime the bank does NOT reset: The lamp DOES light-up. CCC - SOMETIMES the lamp does light-up, sometimes not.
AAA is an wires / switches problem - BBB is a mechanical problem - CCC is awful ...
Greetings Rolf

#10 4 years ago

It may look like a carryover feature, but it isn't.

It also sounds like he isn't really interested in help or he has already fixed the game of he isn't responding to you.

The snippet he showed is not the schema for Jungle Queen. I attached a pic for you below.

I know what he told you, but it doesn't make sense. The number of targets down has nothing to do with the reset circuit. If he is serious about help, have him make a video and send it to you.

"CCC" is not awful, it is what happens when contacts are dirty or not adjusted, or when power to the reset coil is interrupted now and then by a bad fuse folder or bad solder connection.

Last, I understand your idea, but the circuit is a very simple one as you can see below and as I described it earlier. He needs to do the usual stuff....find the relays, find the contacts, clean and adjust them all. He has to look at solder joints on the reset coils, and the two fuse holders.

That's all I can help with at this time. Let me know if anything develops.


#11 4 years ago

One more thing...the U is a relay, not a "unit". It has 4 make, 1 break, and 1 make break switches on it. The line voltage to the reset coils runs through it on the purple wire with plastic, not cloth insulation.

#12 4 years ago

Hi Joe
thank You for Your help. It looks as if "we two" are more concerned about the problem than is the "owner of the pin". Thank You for the snippet and the definition "U-First-Ball-RELAY" - So the "Carry-Over" theory is "over".
Greetings Rolf

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