(Topic ID: 205682)

GTB Flipper Clown reset issue

By Steve_B

6 years ago


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  • 28 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Mopar
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

Score reels reset, ball count unit counts up to 5 balls then continues counting up to 10 then down to game over then back up to 10 etc, motor continues to run, relay bank reset coil does not activate, S-armature contact cleaned and adjusted, manually activating bank reset coil does not reset game.

Schematic shows two pathways to the bank reset coil. One "normal" path and one path when the game ends from a Tilt. If the game is "tilted" during the startup the bank reset coil will fire but the motor still runs. The coil does not fire during then"normal" path. Score reels all reset to zero during this issue. Motor continues to run.

The game was working fine, scoring correctly, resetting correctly, then was shut off overnight. Upon starting the game the next day was when the problem showed up. Nothing was done to the game from when it was shut down overnight to restarting the next day.

Any suggestions as to where to look to correct the related problems (no bank reset and motor run on)? Check a Motor switch? Relay bank switch? Ball count unit zero position? Etc.
Thanks.

#3 6 years ago

Mopar
The S-armature switch was my first thought. I checked it several times for proper gap and operation but motor still runs continuously and reset doesn't complete.
Ball Count Unit correctly lights the lamps in positions "game over" and numbers 1-10, so I do believe the wipers are aligned with the rivets and making contact. Visual inspection also confirms this but I'll check the BCU again.
I also checked all the other N.O. switches that may cause the motor to run including motor 1C and they were all open. The only other switch I need to look at is the make/break on the S relay that changes after a normal startup.
Not easy working on that relay bank frame!
Thanks for the help.

#4 6 years ago

Found a stuck switch in the ball trough. May or may not have been related to issue but some progress made as a result.
Now upon starting the game the motor still continues to spin but it will now stop if I manually activate the relay bank reset coil.
Once the motor stops the game plays normally through all 5 balls down to game over.
But restarting the game results in the motor spinning again. Final issue must be in the make/break switch on S, or the S armature.

#6 6 years ago

Mopar
Found the problems. After locating the bank reset switch on the back of the BCU I cleaned the contacts that were badly pitted and set the gap. That cured the relay bank reset issue.

But the motor continued to run, the BCU add and subtract coils acted weird, and the score reels didn't always reset to zero. So I checked the motor switch positions on the motor switch map and found the most likely switch that may be causing the problems was the inside switch at Motor 1A. That switch reset the scoring units and actuates the balls to play unit.

That inside switch at 1A was in the most difficult location to service since this game didn't have the hinged motor mount frame that allows the motor to be tilted up. I had to remove the entire set of switch stacks at position 1 (1A, B, and C) in order to get at the damaged switch. The contacts were badly burned and pitted, gap was incorrect, and the insulating fish paper was worn through.

I replaced the switch and insulation, reassembled the stack, reset the gaps and hours later fired it up. The game reset and started with no further issues. Several games later working fine with no issues.
Thanks to all that provided comments.

#9 6 years ago

After several games with no issues, a new problem has arisen. During a game restart after "game over", the reset sequence starts correctly, resets everything, counts up to 5 balls to play, then stops as it should. But often (about 30% of the time) it briefly stops at 5 balls to play then adds another ball or two (6 or 7 balls to play). When this happens the relay bank reset coil also fires a second time.

I've looked at the schematic trying to trace the switches that activate the "add balls to play unit" coil. Adjusting motor 2C or 4B didn't help. Switches on relays W and K were correctly gapped. Switches on relays J, D, and B were also correctly gapped. Don't know where else to look. Don't see anything else that activates "add balls to play unit". Any suggestions appreciated.

Also, would someone know the startup sequence for this era game (March, 1962).
Thanks.

#12 6 years ago

Score motor run out checked and closing completely with good contact.
Ball count wipers verified that they are freely moving and making contact with the rivets. Electrical continuity confirmed across positions 4-9. Relay bank reset switch on BCU functioning properly.

Since it appears that the game may be trying to reset more than once, and not completing the second reset, what are the reset steps for this year's game? Which switch in the reset sequence drops out to end the reset?

I'll try to post a scan of the schematic later.

#16 6 years ago

Thanks for hanging in there with me on this issue. Intermittent problems are a pita.
I'll try gapping the S-armature again. I did try moving the adjustable plate on the relay bank reset coil to get a longer stroke from the coil plunger. It didn't help. I'll try adjusting the reset bar as you suggested (looks like it may have been moved in the past).
The bank reset circuit in the schematic above is identical to the one in Flipper Clown. Thanks for posting.
How do you post the full length schematic?

#17 6 years ago

Currieddog
To answer your question above, there is no issue with 'specials' adding more than one ball at a time when an addition ball is suppose to be added.

#20 6 years ago

Mopar, thanks for the suggestions. 4-9 rivets on BCU are clean and with no grooves. Wipers are clean and have good spring tension. Armature switch has been cleaned and gapped several times, but I'll give it another look today. Bank reset bar is moving freely and has a new return spring. Bank coil has a new coil sleeve, clean plunger, and isn't sticking. Relays in bank have good spring tension. Confirmed continuity from BCU 4-9 rivets, through bank reset switch on BCU, to bank coil with jumpers.
Going to focus on the S-armature again today.

#24 6 years ago

Funny that you mention bad solder joints. As I checked for shorts or bent switch tabs I had several wires come off switch tabs in multiple locations during this restoration.

#26 6 years ago

Going back to the S-Armature adjustment fixed the restart issue as Mopar initially suggested. As most who have tried adjusting this switch know, it is not the easiest switch to get right without a lot of trial and error.

What I finally did was to attach my digital meter leads to the S-Armature switch tabs and look for continuity. With the reset bank frame closed I could manually trip the S relay to see if the S armature switch changed state. If adjustment was needed I would open the relay bank frame, adjust the switch, close the frame and again check continuity. Using my meter and manually tripping and resetting the S relay with the frame closed made checking the S armature switch gap easier.

Finally got both the T and S armature switches properly adjusted. Game now resets correctly stopping at ball 5. Hope this is the last chapter on this restoration. Thanks for all the suggestions.

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