Add bits of paper to block the contacts on one switch in each leg of the Bonus Subtract solenoid circuit. That should tell you which switch(es) the pulses are coming through. I'd guess the AX relay switch would be the most likely culprit but it could be any of them.

/Mark

Check if the AX relay is in the latched or unlatched position. I had almost the same problem on a Royal Flush. If the AX relay is not in the right position for startup, strange things will happen, and the game will not start.

From the schematic, you can see that as long as the AX Reset Relay is tripped, the bonus unit will fire 5 times per cycle regardless if it is at the "0" position or not. This is kind of a flaw with Fast Draw & Quick Draw - they should have put a "0" position switch in the reset circuit because 99 times out of a 100, the bonus unit is at "0" at the beginning of a game (because it counted down to "0" from the previous game). So the bonus unit pounds away needlessly about 50 times at every game start. I say it is a flaw, but they probably did it on purpose to save a few bucks on a switch and a few feet of wire. So, anyway the bonus unit is not your problem (it is acting normally) - you need to figure out why the score reels aren't resetting.

If you follow the wire colors on the schematic you only need to block one switch on each relay. Without knowing which switches you blocked on a given relay it's hard to say what the results mean.

That's a key piece of information.

Now things makes more sense. Your Bonus Count isn't the problem it's the symptom.

If your Player Unit isn't advancing as it should during reset you'll never reset the score reels, or stop counting down the bonus or start a new game. The score reels for example don't start clearing until Player Unit positions 20 and 21 when the Z1 and Z2 relays fire.
Fast Draw Add Player (resized).jpg
You need to figure out why the Player Unit advance solenoid isn't firing. I'd start with the two switches in red but it could one of several others.

The unnecessary beat down on the bonus unit (usually the coil stop needs replacement and/or the plunger is shroomed because of this) can be "fixed" by putting a piece of tape across the AX switch contact with the Blue-Orange wire (or bending the blade slightly so it doesn't close when the AX relay is tripped). That's the easy way, and the only time it would ever make a difference is if you ever shut off the game when the Bonus Unit wasn't at zero (which is almost never), and even then, it would resolve itself after you play the first ball on a new game.

Or you could really do it right, and put a new "Open at Zero" switch on the Bonus Unit and wire it to the AX switch.

Does it still step down on a tilt?

Sure it does. All EMs do that, but you don't score any points of course. The subtract bonus circuit we are talking about in this thread is only active when the game resets (AX relay is tripped), so it does not take away any functionality of the game if you disable it.

So it sounds like you were trying to start games with the reels already at zero? And that one reel's zero switch being overgapped was preventing the reset sequence from completing. Because otherwise I can't see why that one zero switch would prevent any reels (including that one) from resetting if they were not at zero already. (?)

Hi,

On the Fast Draw, It's a pity the Bonus unit runs down every time you start a play, even if it's still at its zero position.

Tired with this noisy problem ? : you just have to isolate (or twist) the AX switch rounded in red in my schematic joined. It's the upper left switch on the AX relay. I unsoldered the wire (see picture) and now it's a pleasure to play without noise and Bonus Unit stress....

Sorry, if the text is in French, but it could help you...

This switch seems useless. The game runs without problem without this switch !!!!

If a retired Gottlieb engineer could tell me the goal of this "noisy" switch, I would be very very happy !!!!!!

Many thanks for your replies,

Best regards,

Daniel,

Fast Draw - Modification câblage relais AX (resized).png

Optimisation Substract Bonus Unit (resized).png

That switch resets the Bonus unit when you start a new game.

Sorry, but the study of the schematic shows the Bonus Unit Reset uses rather the "E relay" switch. Moreover, when you isolate the AX relay switch, the bonus count (X1, x2 and x3) works fine, even after switching the machine ON.

You can see under the whole study of the electric part of my Fast Draw. Sorry, it's in french.
https://www.retro-flip.com/f65-ETUDE-ELECTRIQUE-DETAILLEE-D-UN-FLIPPER-DES-ANNEES-70.htm

This switch is isolated on my game and it's play like before... without the boring reset noise !

Maybe a case I didn't see. What's the need of this AX switch : that is the question !

Best regards,

Daniel

My apologies - upon closer review of the schematic, you are absolutely correct that the bonus unit will reset itself from a non-zero state via relay E when the machine is turned on. So, now I really don't what the purpose of the AX switch in that circuit is, except to make noise during game resets. It is a good question!

Yes for sure, but I have never seen the bonus unit of my Fast Draw in another position than "0" at the beginning of a game (apart from TILT for the last ball).

I preferred to isolate the AX switch, the bonus unit no longer pound away needlessly at every game start, and the pinball is much less noise, now !

Even if you tilt on the last ball, the bonus unit will reset itself before the machine goes to Game Over.

After putting a customer's shopped playfield, mech panel, and backbox together for his fast draw... started a game and noticed straight away about 50 hits on the bonus reset waiting for AX to reset at P5A... it really is a head scratcher why those boys at Gottlieb blew a gasket on this one... no wonder there was so much wear on that coil stop and plunger!! switch is now wide open to avoid all this hammering.

Here's the reset sequence from the Fast Draw manual. Exactly how far is does it get?

pasted_image (resized).png

I tried the AX switch disablement trick to stop the excessive bonus unit decrements but it seemed a little too good to be true.

If you have bonus accumulated with a ball in play and then press the credit button to restart a new game right in the middle of it (before the ball drains), it will NOT start resetting the bonus until the ball is in the outhole. *IF* the rest of the game has finished resetting when the ball does go in the outhole, wherever the bonus is sitting at when it does will be awarded for your first ball before it is even served. So for example if you are set to 3 ball and you are on ball 3 with 15K accumulated and have completed ABC for 3X, you could potentially get 45K on your first ball of the new game before you even shoot it!

If the ball landed in the outhole *while* the game has already begun resetting (player unit and score reels), you would get less than that since the bonus unit will have decremented some during the reset. When player unit and reels have completed resetting, you will receive free bonus for whereever the bonus unit ended up at that point. So you might not get any 'free' bonus at all depending on the timing or if you don't have very much bonus accumulated or no multiplier lit.

So this switch is far from pointless even if Gottlieb could have executed it a better way with another zero switch. You don't want players resetting a game in the middle and getting free points. You could even use it to cheat if the last ball went out an outlane with a huge bonus and 2X/3X, but you had already rolled the game over and could see that getting that final bonus would not get you an additional replay. So you 'cash it in' (at least SOME of it) on the next game by quickly hitting the reset button and give yourself a free headstart points-wise. Of course you can only do the trick if you have a credit on the meter already.

**Note - I believe the X multiplier would be reset immediately at game restart if you didn't also do the related 'eliminate targets unnecessarily resetting on start button' switch mod, in that case you would only get the free bonus but without the multiplier. I had both mods in effect for these tests.