Machine turns on fine, credit button sets of relay sequence. "O" relay pulls in but doesn't release. Ball in drain hole does not kick out because "O" coil not being energized. Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks guys. EMsInKC let me clarify - the "O" relay on the relay board does pull in. The score motor turns to reset the game, but there is no current being passed thru 4c up to the "O" coil (under play field in out-hole), so the solenoid is not activating the kick-out mechanism.

As Rolf mentions, have been looking at XB, P and O relays - they all seem clean, gapped properly, etc. Will take a closer look.

kickout coil is good, I can energize it manually.

I might be using the wrong terminology, but what I meant to say is that I can get the ball return coil to trigger by closing the 4c relay on score motor...was testing it "manually" to make sure current was being passed & it functioned mechanically.

Rolf, thanks - will need to digest what you suggest. I was able to jump the circuit to verify that the ball return coil fires and the ball is kicked-out to the shooter lane.

Rolf, I did those jumps that you suggested. And, they all fire the ball return coil/plunger. Why the entire circuit upon pressing credit button doesn't fire the ball return coil is perplexing.

Another thought: upon pressing credit button, it takes 7 score motor "cycles" to reset. My 4 other Gottlieb 1-player EMs only take 2 to 5 "cycles" to reset. Obviously Big Brave is a 2 player game and might be different but it seems to take much longer to reset everything. Any thoughts on whether this is impacting the ball-return problem?

Thanks EMsInKC, I absolutely agree that 4c is the problem area. What is baffling is that I filed down those contacts and cleaned that switch several times. It makes good contact as the score motor cycles...in rotating the score motor cam by hand with machine off, everything looks aligned, making contacting well, opening/closing as it should. I can't think of anything else to try...running out of ideas, lol.

I do also understand your point about multi-player EMs - I don't think that has anything to do with the problem I am experiencing.

Looking from left to right, it's the 3rd one across...shown open in first photoDSCN6303_(resized).JPG

closed in second DSCN6304_(resized).JPG

Am still having issue with start up. Everything resets on pin when credit button is pressed, except the "ball return" doesn't fire & send the ball to shooter lane. Attached is the start up sequence.

Any thoughts? Rolf? EMsinKC?

Thanks.

BB_start_up_sequence.pdf

I am likewise perplexed EMsInKC...O relay pulls in as it should on starting a new game but seems to release to open position just after the score motor stops turning. In other words, as the score motor turns to reset everything (score reels, reset bar, drop target reset, etc.) it seems like the 4C switch opens just before "O" relay pulls in again.

I tested each component of the circuit and they all test good. Scratching my head as to why the entire circuit up to out-hole coil does not...

PROBLEM RESOLVED!! A big thanks to the Pinside community for all your suggestions. It was indeed the "O" and "P" relays that were the source of the problem. It took quite a bit of finesse setting of the switches in each of those relays to finally get it tuned correctly. Just finished up playing a bunch of games to test the game & it's now working 100%. Appreciate everyone's comments. The suggestions, diagrams & comments helped me tremendously in better understanding Gottlieb EMs and the tricky nature of each & every switch!

EMsInKC, I believe the problem was not so much the relays themselves, but with my trying to adjust each and every switch on both O and P. I think I had several of them a bit too "open", so they weren't closing tightly & properly at the right time. Once I tightened up all the gaps on each (so that the blades were almost touching but still sightly open), that resolved the problem. I learned what you already mentioned, that the Gottlieb relay switches are small & very finicky.