(Topic ID: 310847)

Gridiron Start Up U Relay

By Garrett

2 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Garrett
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#1 2 years ago

Trying to start up for the first time. The pin was sitting for many years. All switches gapped and cleaned during tear down.

When I first brought it home and before tear down, it had Game Over and Tilt energized, would not reset at all.

I have the playfield out at this time to resolve the Game Over and U relay issues.

When you power on the pin, Tilt and Game Over are energized as expected but so is U First Ball relay.

The pencil marks on the schematic were there from previous owner.

Currently, credit unit works properly as does credits from coin door.

Pressing the start button removes a credit, score motor starts, score reels all reset to zero and the score motor stops.

During the reset sequence the Game Over relay is deactivated momentarily, but re-energizes before the score reels have completely zeroed.

AX does energize and reset during the sequence.

Manually pulling in the O relay does reset the Tilt.

U is always on.

This machine was dropped hard. Broke the playfield glass, 2 cabinet corners and score reel clips damaged.

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#2 2 years ago
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#3 2 years ago

Nice looking bottom board...

To sort out why the U relay is always on I'd start by blocking the three switches in red with bits of paper to figure out which one is sending power to the relay.
Grid Iron U relay (resized).jpgGrid Iron U relay (resized).jpg
Also check for touching solder tabs, solder blobs, bare wires etc. on those switches.

/Mark

#4 2 years ago

Thanks MarkG. I did go through all the wiring last night and made sure no tabs or strands were touching.

I’ll try the paper trick when I get the chance later this evening.

Without the playfield plugged in the Ball Shooter should not be the issue I would assume.

The FB ad had a few terrible pictures in the listing. But the BG appeared good and is. But they had a pic looking in the lower cabinet through the coin door. You could just see the vibrant color of the cloth wiring.

I think this pin was severely dropped early in its life. Someone tried to get it working at some point and pitted the play field paint a bit, shame.

All I did to the bottom board was use a lint tape roller for your clothing to remove the dirt. Light dry tooth brush on the wire harness.

I have more pics in the “It’s been 10 Years Thread” to see all the work it’s taken. But it’s looking pretty nice so far.

What’s odd is this is the first pin I’ve seen without a play or credit meter. Doesn’t have either.

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#5 2 years ago
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#6 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Nice looking bottom board...
To sort out why the U relay is always on I'd start by blocking the three switches in red with bits of paper to figure out which one is sending power to the relay.
[quoted image]
Also check for touching solder tabs, solder blobs, bare wires etc. on those switches.
/Mark

The TX NO switch is where the power is coming from. The wire is Red-WH on opposite side of green wire on TX NO

The schematic of this switch is stated in the Tilt active or Tilt Reset condition?

Tilted condition is NC, Tilt reset is NO

If reset position then I would assume the First Ball Relay should be activated at the end of the start up sequence?

With a piece of paper in the TX NO contact that is activating U;

Power on the pin
Hit start
Nothing happens

Without paper in TX NO contact
Power on the pin
Hit Start
Reels reset score motor stops AX reset but Game Over still on.

Lookin at the player unit to, was going to clean the sleeve and found metric Allen heads securing the coil bracket. Need to look further while I’m here.

#7 2 years ago

The schematic is drawn with tilt reset. Tilt (TX) is set on power up which sets U, when AX actuates during the start sequence, it should reset TX. U hold is released shortly thereafter on Motor 1B.

Check out the RED circled switch on AX, it should reset TX.

Tilt reset (resized).jpegTilt reset (resized).jpeg
#8 2 years ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

The schematic is drawn with tilt reset. Tilt (TX) is set on power up which sets U, when AX actuates during the start sequence, it should reset TX. U hold is released shortly thereafter on Motor 1B.
Check out the RED circled switch on AX, it should reset TX.
[quoted image]

Thanks DaMoib

During reset, AX does reset the Tilt. After reset completed and AX deactivates, the Tilt and Game Over are still active.

Re-installed the playfield, same result.

Verified Tilt switches are ok.

Will keep chasing that back to the Motor switches next.

#9 2 years ago

I would also verify the 9740 relay coils are still working, these are usually very burned or in some cases not working at all. I know the tilt relay, game over, 1st ball relay all use this 9740 coil. Any of those not working, machine won’t start.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from E_liffers:

I would also verify the 9740 relay coils are still working, these are usually very burned or in some cases not working at all. I know the tilt relay, game over, 1st ball relay all use this 9740 coil. Any of those not working, machine won’t start.

Yup, replaced them already.

Just found a broken solder joint on the score Motor 3B

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Thanks DaMoib
During reset, AX does reset the Tilt. After reset completed and AX deactivates, the Tilt and Game Over are still active.
Re-installed the playfield, same result.
Verified Tilt switches are ok.
Will keep chasing that back to the Motor switches next.

The two tilt switches and the switch on R are all open?

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

The two tilt switches and the switch on R are all open?

No, looking at it now. The open switches are just that. Disconnected wiring at plumb tilt and reading continuity across Red-Yel and OR-WH-Red. Looking into why.

#13 2 years ago

Continuity? How many ohms?

With power off, R will be closed...

#14 2 years ago

The Tilt issue was the contact gap R Hold Relay during reset.

And working on a few more issues along the way.

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1 week later
#15 2 years ago

Update on where it's at, game will reset but not fully. Doesn't get through Step 6 fully.

Looks like it could be an issue in the jones plug as no power to the playfield after reset. After AX and BX reset R activates as it should but U does not. I can lightly push on the switch stack for U then it will lock on. Don't have power to the playfield or flippers. Checked AX and TX extensively as that's the power path to the playfield after reset.

#16 2 years ago

Check the anti-cheat switch on the back box, just below the score reel on the right. The one with hard metal over it. I missed the one while cleaning switches because I didn't notice it behind the metal finger cover. I confirmed it was an issue with jumpers then took it off the back box and adjusted it. On my game it was one of the first switches giving power to lots of items...

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from Garrett:

...Don't have power to the playfield or flippers. Checked AX and TX extensively as that's the power path to the playfield after reset.

AX, TX and *Q* supply power to the flippers and PF... ball shooter switch (EOS) will set U when the ball is launched by the right flipper

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

AX, TX and *Q* supply power to the flippers and PF... ball shooter switch (EOS) will set U when the ball is launched by the right flipper

Deja Vue all over again? LOL.

#19 2 years ago

Using alligator clips, jumped from Red-White at Ax to the other side of Q Red-White after the game reset, still no power to the flippers or playfield. The jones plug is clean and no issues with the solder joint on the male or female side.

Gapping of contacts looks proper on the associated wiring through AX, TX and Q.

Step 6 in the manual states that activation of the U relay competes the start up sequence. The U relay does activate momentarily during the start up as the score motor rotates, but does not hold.

Step 7 CX works properly and selects player 2.

Step 8a and 8b works as stated in the manual. Will verify the rest of Step 8 sequence at the next opportunity.

The power is still perplexing. I did jump the AX, TX and Q power circuit to the playfield individually as well. I would think the fuse would blow if there was a short on the playfield somewhere for the 25VAC.

#20 2 years ago

Use a voltmeter - start at the transformer and work your way up the chain, where is the voltage (25-30 V) blocked?

Read step 6 carefully... they are saying that AX and BX are reset using switches located on U (and R).

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

Use a voltmeter - start at the transformer and work your way up the chain, where is the voltage (25-30 V) blocked?
Read step 6 carefully... they are saying that AX and BX are reset using switches located on U (and R).

I will. AX and BX reset normally and contact gaps look appropriate. Will check them again.

Also have a meter and will try to chase the power issue. Thanks DaMoib.

#22 2 years ago

Bingo! This type of issue can happen with a full overhaul, broken wire at the solder joint. Running great so far.

Missing voltage can causes odd issues.

Going through the scoring and manually checking playfield and ball count now. Nice to hear a bell again.
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#23 2 years ago
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