(Topic ID: 194288)

*GREED* Knock three times, because your pricing is nuts.

By shacklersrevenge

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Manny10
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    There are 141 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 6 years ago
    Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

    You have to know when to hold them. Know when to fold them...

    You also have to know what condition your condition is in, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

    #52 6 years ago

    Sheesh, I have my recently listed Metallica Premium for $500 - $1000 CHEAPER, than what I am seeing , and still no sale

    #53 6 years ago

    Simple: supply & demand.
    If no one buys the game for the "crazy" price listed, the game goes down in value. Right now there are too many idiots buying pins for stupid amounts of money who will in the foreseeable future get burned on those purchases.

    #54 6 years ago

    and even when i have listed pins at a fair price, i still got beat down on a couple......selling is always more of a pain than buying is. but yes there have been some stupid numbers on pins recently, i feel ya

    #55 6 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    Knowledge is key, and you said it, when people stop waving their money around..
    Nobody on pinside loves pinball as much as I do. As much, maybe, but not more.
    With that said, the hobby used to be so different. Maybe the change to it all is what has me provoking thought, but the constant price pushing is extremely lame. Buyers and sellers need to stop and get a grip.
    Pinball is fun stuff, but once you realize that there's more to life than batting a steel ball around inside a wooden box, the more you will appreciate what pinball is really all about.

    Pinball is no different than any other hobby. Right now pinball is very popular and people are really starting to love it again. There are new generations of players getting involved also instead of just us old farts from the 70's and 80's.....this is a great thing IMO because I love pinball and I want it to live on forever. The one downside to it though is the popularity of the hobby is what drives the price of these games new and old both.

    This kinda sucks for me as well because I am not a rich guy by any means. I just an average Joe that goes to work everyday and I save my ass off to buy a game here and there, and it's not easy believe me. I could also be priced out someday if things keep going the way that they are. Heck, I already am priced out of a lot of games. I can't go pay 9K for a new DI machine, no way. I can't buy a BM66 or a Stern LE, thank God for Stern Pros is all I can say and truthfully I can't really afford them but I save my ass off to buy them if there's one I want.

    The thing is though if Pinball loses it's popularity then prices are going to fall back to where they are sensible again and hell they may even plummet to almost nothing again someday. The economy is also another factor that drives these prices. Bottom line is I'm glad Pinball is getting popular again and I hope it keeps getting more popular, even if it does drive prices up. This is not even close to the same thing as me selling my like new Jack Bot to some uninformed kid that just inherited a bunch of money for 10K. That wouldn't raise the value on everyone's Jack Bots one penny and if anyone thinks it will then they need their head examined, and just for the record I wouldn't do that to someone even if I had the opportunity to.

    #56 6 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    I don't know about that. I remember a VERY clear example of a shill bid on an AFM on eBay back in 2013 - had its own topic right here on Pinside. That one went for $8000, and nearly overnight, all AFMs went up to the $6000 - $8000 level. Will never forget it, pissed me off like nothing else as that was my dream theme for 17 years at that point. It was even uncovered to be a shill bid, and it still had a lasting effect.
    Another thing that annoys me is people that put $2000 of mods on a game and expect to get it all back. I don't care how many $200 action figures someone glues onto a game with a single LED on it that comes on with the flashers....ColorDMD, PDI/Invisiglass, RD boards, and audio upgrades are a couple stand out examples. Buying a polar bear, installing an LED in it, and trying to sell it to me as part of your TAF for an extra $110 or whatever it is now = F off. Mods DO not add value (most).
    Also, when the HELL did XF become a $3000 game? Same with T3. These games are MORE than BSD or Fish Tales ?!?!? Everyone get a BSD before some nutcase sells a routed/planked example for $4500 -___- ...

    Sorry but I just don't believe that one fake bid on EBay made everyone's AFM games skyrocket over night. I don't believe it would even if a game actually sold for that much. I have an old Supersonic and if I tried hard enough I could probably find a sucker out there somewhere that would way over pay me for my 700 dollar game, but even if I pulled that off it's not going to make everyone's Supersonics start selling for 3, 4, or 5K overnight. It's all about the popularity of a game, and the availability of a game. People want what they can't have, that's human nature and people want whatever is the flavor of the month or what's hot also. Maybe someday my Supersonic will gain in popularity and be worth more money, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

    #57 6 years ago
    Quoted from jimjim66:

    If you want to buy a NIB pin, and have very limited funds, people are going to try and get the most out of the pins they have to fund the new pin.
    Higher prices are the results of a cause and effect of trying to keep up with new pin prices.

    That's a drop in the bucket...I'll bet more than 75%of the overpriced games out there have absolutely nothing to do with NIB prices. Joe Schmoe who has a pin in crap condition and he's not an enthusiast, will have one of those ads out there with a game priced around twice it's worth, and probably has other ads for overpriced items not even related to pinball. You can often tell these ads because they might include the phrase "will trade for things that go bang". Or, there's an older couple with juniors worn out broken pin in the basement selling it and they looked at Ebay and saw someone selling a minty game for a high price and think they should sell it for the same. Lots of other overpriced examples that have nothing to do with NIB prices.

    Quoted from Spencer:

    Its your game, list it for what-ever you want. If its over-priced....it wont sell. Its not about fishing for newbies at all, they have all the resources in front of them, takes 5 minutes to find an accurate value. I fail to see why people selling a game for more than you think its worth is a huge issue, just move on.

    It's not all that easy to find an accurate value. It's easy to find a "ballpark value" or an acceptable range....IF you've been in the hobby for a while and know all the resources and where to find history on sold prices. Condition can be extremely subjective, and you can see quite a dispute in prices on the pricing threads here.

    Selling a game for more than its worth is not a huge issue for <buyers> with deep pockets. If they really want the game, they'll pay the price. When you are a hobbyist with a very low budget, you get priced out of ever being able to own certain titles as the prices rise. I'd like to own a Whirlwind or EATPM, but thaose games have always been priced out to where I can never afford them. Yeah, I just move on...I really have no choice.

    #58 6 years ago

    Prices have been skyrocketing over just the last three to four years. It is weird because I compare it to our really hot Denver real estate market. It is all about supply and demand. We have all the hipster millenniums moving to Colorado for the legalized weed and now our highways and roads are clogged all day and you can't drive anywhere. I am a Colorado native, so it has been difficult to get used to, and it is getting worse.

    I saw the correlation years ago with older titles becoming harder and harder to find. When someone wants a particular game and they are not able to find it easily, they will pay a premium to get it. I just got my HUO CSI I have been looking for over 6 months, and I paid too much for it. It is unfortunate that prices are going crazy but thank god for all the boutique pin manufactures selling $8k + games, they really help suck out the money from collectors and help with having more machines available and increasing the number of used games for sale. I also am thankful that foreign countries like China have not taken up pinball. Stern is already pushing full capacity trying to keep up with the current demand, now imagine thousands of people getting into pinball from countries currently not into pinball. It would be a real big stinker if Pinball blows up and you wont be able to afford anything or even find machines for sale. You never know what the future holds. The price increase over the last few years sucks but I am still thankful to be able to find and purchase machines.

    #59 6 years ago

    Not that I am going to blame the guy, but someone on here selling an unshopped game with issues feels their game is worth more because non-pinheads will pay more than what people on here will.

    If you want to go for that crowd, you probably should just skip pinside altogether. Seems a bit silly to argue the game is worth more than what they list for on here.

    #60 6 years ago
    Quoted from ZenTron:

    If someone could find one nicer and for less money I would tell them to buy it.

    Funny you say that. I sold a machine a few months ago-- I advertised it at a firm (and fair) price-- slightly below market value because I wanted it out, and the guy was griping out the price once he got to my house, saying that he had seen a much nicer one for a much lower price. And I responded "I guess this conversation is over then-- you need to rush right over to see that other fellow and buy his machine before someone else beats you to it". He bought my machine.

    #61 6 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Selling a game for more than its worth is not a huge issue for people with deep pockets.

    Well, it's not an issue when you are poor either. Buying is another story...

    #62 6 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    and a Batman Forever for $3700 are worth $1000 more over night, just because someone felt those numbers sound good to them.

    LMAO!! I totally agree with you. I'm just laughing because I just read that batman forever thread where he told you to go and create your own thread. Normally I add a few hundred to my asking price because I know people are going to try and talk me down. But, this inflation we are seeing is not to cover haggling its just plain greed. What's going to happen is some poor sap will buy those inflated games, and in turn he will think that his games are really valued at that inflated rate. Then he will list them at a higher price on craigslist and the cycle of inflation will continue on.

    #63 6 years ago

    Ya I agree eBay gives people an inflated sense of price

    My whole family thinks my grandparents Adams family is worth 15,000 lol. They looked at me wierd when I said it's probably worth 5500 after it's cleaned up.

    17
    #64 6 years ago

    Yay! A price bitch thread!

    We all hate paying a lot for pins. And we all hate selling pins for less than they are "worth." We all hate getting beat up when we try to sell a pin for what we think it's worth. We all hate when a seller won't budge a and sell a game to us for what we think it's worth. This is nothing new and if you go back to RGP you'll see the exact same threads being made 20, 15, 10 years ago.

    It's the market. It'll sort itself out. In the meantime, there are still literally HUNDREDS of nice, working pins available to anybody for $500-$1000. So everybody who can afford a place to put a pinball machine can still afford a pinball machine, which is wonderful. My collection always has several of these games in it and if its all I could afford I'd still be happy, just like I was 15 years ago when my collection was Argosy and a beat up High Speed.

    It's only pinball. Lighten up folks.

    #65 6 years ago

    greed (resized).jpggreed (resized).jpg

    #66 6 years ago

    Here are some legit questions/statements -

    Is there anybody paying outrageous prices for the pins?

    Just because they are listed that high doesn't mean there are hundreds of people everyday paying those prices. I keep seeing the same pins listed for sale. When they do sell after a period of time, I would venture to say they sold for less because I doubt the buyer didn't negotiate the price and the seller didn't adjust the price after sitting on it for an extended period of time.

    Many times sellers price it high so they can negotiate it. They use Ebay as an advertisement and not a selling mechanism.

    People need to stop using "concern" for new buyers as a reason for wanting cheap pins. They should be honest and just say they want cheaper pins so they can buy and collect more of them. Which ironically is greedy in itself since pinball machines are not a necessity .

    #68 6 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Well, it's not an issue when you are poor either. Buying is another story...

    edited for clarity:
    Selling a game for more than its worth is not a huge issue for <buyers> with deep pockets

    #69 6 years ago
    Quoted from jimjim66:

    People need to stop using "concern" for new buyers as a reason for wanting cheap pins. They should be honest and just say they want cheaper pins so they can buy and collect more of them. Which ironically is greedy in itself since pinball machines are not a necessity .

    I never stated I wanted cheap pins, but I don't know anyone who wouldn't? I personally am not going to overpay for a game.

    The whole point to this thread was about how it's not too difficult to put a reasonable price tag on your game, especially on pinside and within the community, rather than one that is blatantly obvious at $1000+ over what it should be. That is me being honest.

    #70 6 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    the guy was griping out the price once he got to my house, saying that he had seen a much nicer one for a much lower price.

    I had a boss that would take a $1 bill and hand it to them and say "thanks for stopping by" and walk away.

    One time a guy brought in a ignition lock for 914s (very difficult) and when the guy came in to pick it up asked "are you sure it will fit the door lock" he took the key out and threw it in the trash and said "no it won't". We heard the guy took it to every locksmith in town and they all said "there's only one guy in town can do that one".

    #71 6 years ago

    There is only one guy I know of that can change the price of a machine overnight...
    Todd Tuckey.
    Tell me I'm wrong but when TNT comes out with a video that really shows a nice machine and how it plays everybody jumps on the bandwagon. All of a sudden your $1500 pin is now worth $2500.
    Deep down inside you know I'm right.
    -Mike

    #72 6 years ago

    This thread again? Time to play Pinside Bingo! Mark these down if you have them on your card.

    NIB Prices too high.
    Quality/value not there.
    Newbies ruining everything.
    Your game is shitty and only worth x.
    My game is gold and you are low-balling me.
    You paying X amount for a game screws everybody else.
    I'm priced out of the market and am bitter.
    Everybody is greedy except me. I am supporting my fellow pinballer.
    Remakes & Refakes.
    More money than brains is ruining this hobby.
    *Freespace*

    Anything I miss?

    #73 6 years ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    There is only one guy I know of that can change the price of a machine overnight...
    Todd Tuckey.
    Tell me I'm wrong but when TNT comes out with a video that really shows a nice machine and how it plays everybody jumps on the bandwagon. All of a sudden your $1500 pin is now worth $2500.
    Deep down inside you know I'm right.
    -Mike

    Every time a new table comes out on the pinball arcade app, it seems to affect prices in some way.

    #74 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Every time a new table comes out on the pinball arcade app, it seems to affect prices in some way

    I agree with that too! Now I would like a TX Sector because of pinball arcade. Time to start building a virtual machine, just don't have a big enough house for all my toys.
    -Mike

    #75 6 years ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    There is only one guy I know of that can change the price of a machine overnight...
    Todd Tuckey.
    Tell me I'm wrong but when TNT comes out with a video that really shows a nice machine and how it plays everybody jumps on the bandwagon. All of a sudden your $1500 pin is now worth $2500.

    Game room collectibles does the same when they post games for sale with pics of that sexy broad.

    #76 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Every time a new table comes out on the pinball arcade app, it seems to affect prices in some way.

    This. And I was just combing back through the posts to see if anyone already mentioned it.

    People play a game they never had a chance to play before on Pinball Arcade.. or someone new to pinball tries it out and likes it. They like it, go searching for it. Now how many of that game are still in existence? How many are up for sale at the time you're looking for one.. within driving distance.. and in the condition you'd like. All the sudden you created your own "GOT TO HAVE IT!!" need for something. After a bit people get tired of wasting time looking or waiting for something cheaper.

    I was just in Best Buy witnessing someone buying a $5000 Sony 65" OLED TV. The question they asked the salesman over and over was "So this is the best one that's out there, right? There's nothing better?" The extended warranty was over $1000 on it. They bought it. It blew my mind, I've never witnessed anyone spending that much on a television.

    People that want something NOW and can't be bothered with patience or finding some way not to *NEED* the latest and greatest, or in regard to pinball.. NEEDING a particular title.. well, those are the people buying machines at crazy prices. Probably enough of them don't mind one bit because they got what they wanted for that "immediate fix" that society is being programmed for nowadays.

    #77 6 years ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    This thread again?

    This again? people complaining about a repeating thread theme.

    #78 6 years ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    This again? people complaining about a repeating thread theme.

    I'm going to mark you down for Freespace

    #79 6 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    People that want something NOW and can't be bothered with patience or finding some way not to *NEED* the latest and greatest, or in regard to pinball.. NEEDING a particular title.. well, those are the people buying machines at crazy prices. Probably enough of them don't mind one bit because they got what they wanted for that "immediate fix" that society is being programmed for nowadays.

    Or, a few of my friends have money and $10 million dollar houses. They want games for their gameroom. They never ask the price. One asked me what the top old and new games were. I gave a list of 10 (5 of each) Addams Family, Twilight Zone, etc.....2 weeks later when i went over, they were all there. I asked where he got them from. He said he had no idea, he just gave an assistant the list and said have them at the house next week.
    The nice thing is when they're ready to sell....I'm first in line.

    #80 6 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    I never stated I wanted cheap pins, but I don't know anyone who wouldn't?

    That's my point- every buyer wants cheap pins. Every seller wants to maximize profit. They shouldn't be judged because nobody knows their motive and if anything most buyers are just looking to add to a collection.

    Of course there are exceptions and nobody should use a broad paint brush of "Greed". I have known people that have had to sell machines because of real life emergencies. Better they get the best end of a deal because life is bigger than pinball collecting.

    Here is why over priced pinball machines on Pinside or Ebay don't matter.

    1. If you want a good price on Pinside- post a want to buy thread. Maybe personalize why you want it. I sold a IJ to somebody on Pinside at a very good price. I just PM'd them. I never met them before and gave them a great deal.

    2. If you see a machine you want - PM the person your price and see if they will accept. Many times they just use Ebay as a way to advertise and they will sell it to you off of Ebay to avoid fees.

    3. Offer a trade. If there pin is inflated, inflate yours in the trade. Maybe your opinion on price might be different, but not your opinion on trade value.

    4. People need to research stuff. Most people who feel they have been ripped off, did not do their do enough research. If you are going to buy something as expensive as a pinball machine, take the time to use the internet to figure out how much it is worth and what to look for. Pretend it is a car or house. I don't know why more people do not do this.

    #81 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Every time a new table comes out on the pinball arcade app, it seems to affect prices in some way

    This is what brought me into collecting modern games. (90s and up) My first couple of games I bought site unseen! (didn't even play them once before purchase) TAF, WW, TOM and SS. Once pinball arcade came out for the IPAD I was hooked on AFM, CP MB, TOTAN, CV, NGG,CC and MM

    #82 6 years ago
    Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

    Agree and when the "newbees" get tired of the b.s. - another fire sale. You have to know when to hold them. Know when to fold them...

    I'll be buying big time ...

    #83 6 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    It blew my mind, I've never witnessed anyone spending that much on a television.

    (Sorry for the off-topic post)

    Friend of mine finally (after 18+ months) sold his old house, moved into a new one. Went to a TV store to check the largest screen he could buy. Salesman offered one that was really *huge*. Friend realized it was so big it would not go through the front door. The garden back door would have been OK, but there was no access from the street.
    Salesman: "No problem, we can bring it by helicopter for a fraction of the cost".

    #84 6 years ago

    The question is, what is going on, is it just the free market doing it's thing, or do we have a tulip mania effect happening?

    In my opinion, another factor that's just as relative as those pointed out is JJP coming onto the scene and setting a new price bar, and doing so again with DI, and Stern jumping on the bandwagon too. It's inevitable that relative pricing occurs. The rising tide floats all boats.

    I look at DI pricing and think, do I want that or 3 previous generation DMDs. There's demand shift that affects pricing. But there's also new demand: whenever I post machines for sale, I also get purchases and inquiries from first time buyers.

    If there's a group to blame, I think it's those that have been willing to pay higher price for NIB. I don't resent them though, it's just the free market.

    #85 6 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    The question is, what is going on, is it just the free market doing it's thing, or do we have a tulip mania effect happening?
    In my opinion, another factor that's just as relative as those pointed out is JJP coming onto the scene and setting a new price bar, and doing so again with DI, and Stern jumping on the bandwagon too. It's inevitable that relative pricing occurs. The rising tide floats all boats.

    Yeah, but at least JJP builds quality games.

    Stern can't stop taking things and upping the price.

    What you want a shaker with your LE? Too bad.
    Lockdown bar assembly? Nope.
    Support beams for the PF? F that noise.
    Latch assembly to hold the backbox in place? Pfft.
    Interactive toys on the Pro edition?!?!?!? PA-lease.
    Power switch in a logical spot??? Nope!
    Want an LCD? Watch this $200 increase!

    Got to save pennies while we charge you more!

    #86 6 years ago

    Check the Pinside Archives. When a game is sold most sellers do Not disclose the actual price it sold for, Why? Makes it difficult to gauge values when all you have to go by is asking prices. What's up with that??

    #87 6 years ago

    Harder to profit for those who flip NIB these days.
    Older late 80s -90s seem to be the next tier to turn and burn now.
    Ive seen a few syst 11 for sale near or over 4k with new rubbers and labeled "restored"?!?!
    Yeahhh, I want some of what your smokin.

    #88 6 years ago

    Anyone who thinks that a seller doesn't have a right to ask what he wants for his property should be very comfortable with having someone else tell them what price to sell their own property at when the time comes to sell. Just saying

    Man you guys need to lighten up. Just don't buy things that are overpriced. Have you ever thought that some people don't really want to sell so they just put on a crazy price. Like if someone's wife told them to sell TSPP so they list it for $15K.

    If a pin is overpriced for you then it's really just as though it is not available at all. Psychologically you might feel like you almost got your chance (to get your fav pin or rare pin) but really it's just a picture and some text on some web page. Close the ad and move on as it's not about you and the seller has not personally put that ad there to piss you off. So far I've only purchased pins and have not yet sold so just sharing my personal approach

    #89 6 years ago
    Quoted from spinal:

    Have you ever thought that some people don't really want to sell so they just put on a crazy price. Like if someone's wife told them to sell TSPP, then list it for $10K.

    High prices whatever, but just to appease a wife?
    A guy like that should spend less time listing overpriced pinballs and
    more time growing a pair of them.

    #90 6 years ago

    Hah, yeah well not talking about me but just saying in the hypothetical. I've read it's happened before.

    #91 6 years ago

    If you can repair, craigslist is still where it's at. I often see items priced way too high in collectors forums..not just here. There is a lot of Craigslist competition in my area, but there is still plenty to go around.

    #92 6 years ago

    How is this thread still breathing?

    #93 6 years ago

    I personally think craigs list has the best prices. Some of the people here on Market place are asking a bit too much. Ebay can be good depending.

    #94 6 years ago

    What happened to price police on pinside?
    I remember adds 2, 3 years ago that would get slammed for gauging pin prices. That activity, good and bad as it seemed to stop.
    On that note.
    Whats up with Cactus Canyon, CCC going for more than 10k?
    Thats a pin for price i just dont get.

    #95 6 years ago

    Only 903 CC produced = low supply

    #96 6 years ago
    Quoted from spinal:

    Only 903 CC produced = low supply

    Ya expensive and incomplete code. Sounds familiar

    #97 6 years ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    What happened to price police on pinside?
    I remember adds 2, 3 years ago that would get slammed for gauging pin prices. That activity, good and bad as it seemed to stop.
    On that note.
    Whats up with Cactus Canyon, CCC going for more than 10k?
    Thats a pin for price i just dont get.

    Ive been lucky enough to play CCC.....i just never could get into it. To me, its clearly for the true collectors....not the players....

    -1
    #98 6 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Yeah, but at least JJP builds quality games.
    Stern can't stop taking things and upping the price.
    What you want a shaker with your LE? Too bad.
    Lockdown bar assembly? Nope.
    Support beams for the PF? F that noise.
    Latch assembly to hold the backbox in place? Pfft.
    Interactive toys on the Pro edition?!?!?!? PA-lease.
    Power switch in a logical spot??? Nope!
    Want an LCD? Watch this $200 increase!
    Got to save pennies while we charge you more!

    Lots of chipping clear coat on the new DI games that are shipping right now. JJP games are also about 3K higher than a new Stern. I think I'll stick with my junky Sterns.

    #99 6 years ago
    Quoted from dawasa:

    Check the Pinside Archives. When a game is sold most sellers do Not disclose the actual price it sold for, Why? Makes it difficult to gauge values when all you have to go by is asking prices. What's up with that??

    Because frankly it's nobody's Fn business.

    #100 6 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Lots of chipping clear coat on the new DI games that are shipping right now. JJP games are also about 3K higher than a new Stern. I think I'll stick with my junky Sterns.

    Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you want an already ghosting SW?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/125#post-3884710

    Best way to end the madness and make Stern get their shit together is to stop buying them. But we all know that's just dreaming ; )...

    There are 141 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

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