FOR. SURE.

It's weird, I've noticed it too. I'm all for asking what you want and negotiating, but when I see the crazy prices I don't even bother to ask...

I've also had people tell me I could expect 'X' for a game, but then I see others trying to sell the same game for much more and at the same time seeing people selling the same game for less and they aren't moving. I'm pretty sure the local market has a lot to do with it and how many of that particular title are available right now, but pricing seems all over the place lately.

"Hey well um all the new games are like way more expensive so that means everything is more exp..." blah blah blah

Decent EM's going from $600 up to $2000 in my neck of the woods. Early SS $1800 up.

pay it forward people....you want a good deal on a pin? give others the same treatment.

I certainly dont disagree with you in terms of Pinball, and how you presented.

But help me out here, cause I have this argument at home.....

Whats the difference between Capitalism, where the market determines something is too high, and
the current use of the word, "greed".

I left the Jewelry Industry because it was apparent a hundred times over, that a $15 polished rock out of the ground,
that would be OK to say sell in the hundreds, was getting BS Paperwork, and being sold for Thousands, along with a mountain of other examples.

I used Greed, because deception is involved.

It seems to be a word used a lot these days......

So, if they joined the hobby, buy at "Retail", and believe they can flip a game and profit, thats "Greed"?
...and its True, if you are trying to take advantage of someone who is new or uniformed, I agree.

(To be sure, Im not disagreeing with you, just trying to find a "line".)

I totally do not believe that is the case. Sure their may be a few sour apples with those intentions, but don't use the same brush. Yes prices have exploded, and they may come back down they may not. this happens with all commodities, from collectibles to housing. And also as someone who is looking to buy something for the first time, it is up to them to do the homework to ensure they are getting a decent deal. If they don't it is their fault.

Reminds me of the housing market everybody in it and poof! Bottom falls out. If this keeps up the top will be found and nobody will be buying. Good for me and you as THAT is the time to buy.

Sentimental value is another item I find with some pinball machines as they have good memories of their times with it. True but unless they have kept up the machine some are just unrealistically priced. I am a firm believer that upkeep on a pinball (Labor) is not in keeping with a true value. If I am renting you a house and I have to call a plumber to fix a leak do I add that onto the rent of the renter?

No, it's just normal upkeep even if I have to replace all the plumbing in the house it's upkeep. Just my .02 cents.

I don't have a particular problem with people charging what they want for their games. If it sells, then it was priced correctly. While I think getting a deal on a machine makes it easier to pay it forward, it's certainly not mandatory, since I've gotten screwed lots of times and prospective buyers aren't going to overpay just because I did. Buyers and sellers seeing eye to eye on price is what makes a market.

I do have a problem with the liars, particularly those who are intentionally misrepresenting something in order to pad their wallets. I have observed that people like that tend to get what's coming to them sooner or later.

I dunno if its GREED necessarily. I know if I was going to sell, unless I REALLY needed the money like right away, I would list them a little higher than they are "worth" just to see if I could hook some one at that price and make it more worth it to sell.

What I am seeing is not simply slightly high prices to give wiggle room, but really out there prices that are ridiculous. I've all about given up trying to swing people in a sane direction. They either just don't have a clue, which I am a just a little more forgiving of, or they are knowledgeable and going for the sucker - THEN I have a problem with that - and that IS greed. There's a big difference between a LOT higher and LITTLE higher. If you are the former AND you know the reasonable price for your game in its condition but you still post an overpriced game, you're all about yourself and and your money, you're not helping the hobby, and you're a greedy b@$tard.

I am as honest of a person as you will ever find and I can't stand to see someone rip another person off but it's their games and they can put any price they want on them. When someone is making a big purchase like a pinball machine, you have got to do your homework and educate yourself. If you don't, it's nobody's fault but your own.

This!

If you want to buy a NIB pin, and have very limited funds, people are going to try and get the most out of the pins they have to fund the new pin.

Higher prices are the results of a cause and effect of trying to keep up with new pin prices.

Its your game, list it for what-ever you want. If its over-priced....it wont sell. Its not about fishing for newbies at all, they have all the resources in front of them, takes 5 minutes to find an accurate value. I fail to see why people selling a game for more than you think its worth is a huge issue, just move on.

Well, along these lines, I'm enjoying watching dumb prices drop on Craigslist.

"Lowered price" after just a few days.

Maybe it's the new machines calling them? I'll wait until I see reasonable prices for things.

I mean, some prices are certainly way out there, but I've also seen that if you want a specific game, you either got to really wait, or pay up. Certainly a lot of people are just taking the last sale price they saw and adding another $500 or $1000... and if a collector really wants that game and doesn't want to wait, or you are selling the only Whirlwind on the market right now or reasonably local, well, someone might pay up. I don't think its newbies getting scammed as much, (well maybe on Ebay) I just think its supply and demand.

New people in the hobby means we'll be paying more. It could go somewhat in reverse if the economy tanks but the collector base is just much much larger than it was even 5-6 years ago when I entered the hobby; and they simply aren't making any more Taxis or No Fears or whatever else. And the new collectors are starting at the bottom, driving up the low end games too. on the plus side if you want a brand new game, there's a lot more choice.

They are not and thus, wont sell. Simple. People can ignore it all day long and it wont matter a lick.

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So what you are really worried about is the prices of games going up In general sounds like. Pinball is like anything else, they are worth what people are willing to pay for them. That is what determines the price, PERIOD! Just because a couple of idiots pay 5K for a Stern Meteor, that doesn't mean that the prices of a Meteor is going to go up. You are concerned that you aren't going to be able to afford pins in the future, that's exactly what this is all about. You are worrying way way too much about this for real.

Thank you, this gave me an idea on how to go about my next sale.
I've also had sweet deals and I believe giving back is a good thing to do.

If I were to sell one of my machines at the price I paid for it, there would be tons of inquiries and most of them probably from professionals that skim the classifieds pages on an hourly basis.
Since I don't want the buyer to flip the machine for a quick buck, I will post a firm price that may be a tad lower than current sales prices of comparable machines.

So here's what I intend to do when a buyer shows up:

If he is nice, wants the pinball machine and doesn't talk it down to get a lower than the (firm) advertised price, we will close the deal. After he's paid up, I will give him a couple of hundreds back which will surely brighten his day since he got himself a sweet deal. I will also encourage him to do something good for someone else who doesn't expect it (pay it forward).

If he's being a jerk (e.g. takes out the cotton swabs and complains about anything to get me to lower the asking price), he may still buy the machine from me, but it's going to be full asking price without any kickback. In that case, I will donate to charity what I would have returned to him.

I've noticed the demand for pins has been increasing lately and it isn't possible to increase supply unless the game is being manufactured currently. I purchased a nice Addams for $5500 last year and would list it at $6500 now if i was to sell it. If someone could find one nicer and for less money I would tell them to buy it.

Anyone want to buy my nice Xenon for say, 2200? Act now before Xenons start going for 3500 next year!

Probably because nib are going up, our price up here nib stern pros have gone up 1100 in the past year, drives everything used up as well.

I don't care, but I guess I care enough to comment. If it's priced too high for you, don't buy it. Don't get upset when someone else thinks it is worth it and buys it. It's that simple. When I sell games, I notice pretty quickly if it's priced too high, because nobody asks to buy it.

And of course, my favorite buyers are when I price a game well to move it quickly, and they give a low offer. Then when you say no, they up it. Then the game sells to someone else and they say they would have given you your full asking price. Love when that happens because they know they just missed a deal. Their tears nourish me.

Who's in charge of notifying the rest of the world once we work out a new pinball pricing structure here in this thread?

Oh, and something something greed is good something something

There are many other collector markets that have been on the upswing as well, this certainly is not limited to pinball. The economy is booming. I have no idea where all these folks showed up with wads of cash, but they are out there for sure. Theme parks are full (and are more expensive than ever). Video game console market is up a bit. Collector cars aren't doing bad. And in my area, property has gone nuts as well. So yeah, if you are a smart buyer, now is not the time to be buying.

I don't know about that. I remember a VERY clear example of a shill bid on an AFM on eBay back in 2013 - had its own topic right here on Pinside. That one went for $8000, and nearly overnight, all AFMs went up to the $6000 - $8000 level. Will never forget it, pissed me off like nothing else as that was my dream theme for 17 years at that point. It was even uncovered to be a shill bid, and it still had a lasting effect.

Another thing that annoys me is people that put $2000 of mods on a game and expect to get it all back. I don't care how many $200 action figures someone glues onto a game with a single LED on it that comes on with the flashers....ColorDMD, PDI/Invisiglass, RD boards, and audio upgrades are a couple stand out examples. Buying a polar bear, installing an LED in it, and trying to sell it to me as part of your TAF for an extra $110 or whatever it is now = F off. Mods DO not add value (most).

Also, when the HELL did XF become a $3000 game? Same with T3. These games are MORE than BSD or Fish Tales ?!?!? Everyone get a BSD before some nutcase sells a routed/planked example for $4500 -___- ...

Yeah and T3 go here 2300 all year.

I don't understand this argument.... Who cares if it was shill bid or not? It sold for more than you had hoped and then the "MARKET" price went up. So what!? If that truly wasn't the going rate, the price would not have gone up and stayed up.

As more people come into the market and less games are available, the price will go up. Like it or not, its a fact and has been happening for years.

Mods, well to each there own. Some are worth extra coin, color dmd for example, some are personal tastes but AGAIN, if you don't like them or the price, just pass! I don't get why its the seller's fault for trying to maximize his profits and because "YOU" think its priced to high, hes a bad guy.

I think the shill bid means it was fake. It never actually sold for that price, yet the market reflected as if it had.

Meh, someone tried to sell me a straight off route csi for 3900 yesterday. This is unshopped and who knows what issues. They said 300 off the pinside value is a deal...

This weekend tried to get an unshopped hook with sound problems. Guy is stuck at 1500. I am at 1200. He believes its a 2500 dollar machine when fixed up.

List goes on, but life is too short. Just wish I had more time for pins which is why no one sees me on here these days, though some people probably wish it would stay that way .

I know what a shill bid is and it has no bearing on the end result. Shill bids happen ALL the time, in every hobby. Its so easy to do. The only reason the price would go up AND stay up is if people are willing to pay that price. If the next buyer inline took a step back and said no thanks at this price, the price would go down.

Everything is worth what someone is willing to pay. If someone is willing to pay $5K for a T3 does it make it worth that much? Of coarse not but if the second and third guy in line are willing to pay the same price, then the price will go upMaybe buyers should just take a step back, instead of waving cash around.

Sounds like everyone just wants cheaper games at the expense of the sellers, which is laughable.

With all the trouble a lot of pinball buyers put sellers thru, and how anal and cheap they are, I see no reason not to ask top dollar or more when putting a machine up for sale. And then maybe some sucker will click the buy it now button.

Deal of the century here Stern Simpsons for 15K!!!

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I could care less where the market goes. I will just pass on the game then, pretty simple. If someone else wants to pay the price, so be it. Its really simple and I don't need to cry about it either. Or try to make it personal, classy.

They can't remake them all.

Some will always be out of reach.

From what I've seen, they haven't "remade" any of them yet. Just cheap imitations.

Not according to Shackler, all games should be $1500 and anyone asking more should be burned at the stake!

They can't "refake" them all.

Couldn't care less. Unless you could care less, of course

Grammar police.

Agree and when the "newbees" get tired of the b.s. - another fire sale. You have to know when to hold them. Know when to fold them...