(Topic ID: 246340)

Grand Prix - Won't advance at end of ball 2 and ball 4

By djreddog

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by MarkG
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Williams stepper adjustment (resized).jpg
77F727EB-992E-4D9E-8BDC-BEE6C5E03837 (resized).jpeg
C3D380C1-EA35-44F1-AA25-CDEC2D4E7918 (resized).jpeg
Grand Prix Alternator relay (resized).jpg
#1 4 years ago

Question for everyone on Grand Prix. Out of the blue my game no longer kicks out the ball at the end of ball 2 and at the end of ball 4.

Example, start game.
Plunge ball 1. The bonus counts, and ball kicks to the shooter lane and advances to ball 2.
Plunge ball 2. The ball drains, nothing happens at all. (Note - If I lift the playfield, and manually reset the outhole switch, the bonus counts down and the ball kicks to the shooter lane while advancing to ball 3.)
Plunge ball 3. The bonus counts, and ball kicks to the shooter lane and advances to ball 4.
Plunge ball 4. The ball drains, nothing happens at all. (Note - If I lift the playfield, and manually reset the outhole switch, the bonus counts down and the ball kicks to the shooter lane while advancing to ball 5.)
Plunge ball 5. The bonus counts, and the game ends.

I know very little about EM's, so hopefully this is something simple.

#2 4 years ago

There's an Alternator relay probably near the Ball Count unit that should fire on ball 2 and ball 4:
Grand Prix Alternator relay (resized).jpgGrand Prix Alternator relay (resized).jpg
I suspect either your Alternator relay isn't firing at all, or it's firing as it should but one of its Make/Break switches isn't toggling properly.

If it's not firing at all, trace the path through the Ball Count unit looking closely at the wipers. There's a drawing of it on page 14 in the manual on ipdb.org.

If it is firing during ball 2 and ball 4, try cleaning the contacts of the Make/Break switch(es) on the Alternator relay.

/Mark

#3 4 years ago

Check my thread here post #27 and on. I'll follow along if you can't get it going again.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/william-s-grand-prix-ball-wont-kick-out-end-of-ball-wont-advance-

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Check my thread here post #27 and on. I'll follow along if you can't get it going again.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/william-s-grand-prix-ball-wont-kick-out-end-of-ball-wont-advance-

I think you might be on to something!

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from djreddog:

I think you might be on to something!

In your case, it might be that same switch on the right bonus relay. Use a DMM to check continuity between the wire lugs on the blades of the switch contacts.

#6 4 years ago

Ok so this is resolved thanks to FatPanda advice and thread. I lifted the PF and checked the bonus unit switches and I had a wire hanging off. Soldered it back on and we are back in business regarding the game playing through all 5 balls.
C3D380C1-EA35-44F1-AA25-CDEC2D4E7918 (resized).jpegC3D380C1-EA35-44F1-AA25-CDEC2D4E7918 (resized).jpeg

However I did notice the left bonus is acting a little flaky. Sometimes it has two bonus lights lit at the same time. I also noticed the 50,000 light never lights up. Lifting the PF, I can see the problem, but don’t know how to fix it. See the attached picture, the contacts are slightly misaligned, thus it is touching 2 contacts at once and also lighting up two bonus lights at once. How do I realign this thing?

77F727EB-992E-4D9E-8BDC-BEE6C5E03837 (resized).jpeg77F727EB-992E-4D9E-8BDC-BEE6C5E03837 (resized).jpeg
#7 4 years ago
Quoted from djreddog:

How do I realign this thing?

There are a couple of ways. But before making a bunch of adjustments be sure that the stepper is clean and operating well. It should snap cleanly forward and backward when you push in the solenoid plungers and let them go.

Your last photo barely shows the two mounting screws that hold the contact board to the frame. They're under the wiper arms. If you remove the wiper arms you can loosen those two screws and rotate the contact board a little bit. That may be all it needs.

If that doesn't work, the other side of the frame has an adjustment screw to regulate how far the stepper arm pushes the wiper disk:
Williams stepper adjustment (resized).jpgWilliams stepper adjustment (resized).jpg
Loosen the lock nut and move to bolt in/out to more the gear less/more. Once it's dialed in so the wiper arms come to rest in the center of the contacts tighten the lock nut again. I usually find that cleaning and/or contact board rotation takes care of it. Those lock nuts don't come loose often so that's less likely to be the issue.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

There are a couple of ways. But before making a bunch of adjustments be sure that the stepper is clean and operating well. It should snap cleanly forward and backward when you push in the solenoid plungers and let them go.
Your last photo barely shows the two mounting screws that hold the contact board to the frame. They're under the wiper arms. If you remove the wiper arms you can loosen those two screws and rotate the contact board a little bit. That may be all it needs.
If that doesn't work, the other side of the frame has an adjustment screw to regulate how far the stepper arm pushes the wiper disk:
[quoted image]
Loosen the lock nut and move to bolt in/out to more the gear less/more. Once it's dialed in so the wiper arms come to rest in the center of the contacts tighten the lock nut again. I usually find that cleaning and/or contact board rotation takes care of it. Those lock nuts don't come loose often so that's less likely to be the issue.

Thanks for the advice. Before reading this I did a few more tests. With the game off I manually activated the solenoids. The solenoid on the right in the picture you posted works as intended. The bottom solenoid thoughts is sluggish and gets stuck. I’ve looked over all the mechanisms and compared it to the other bonus unit but I just can’t seem to hone in on the exact issue that is causing it to stick.

#9 4 years ago

The smaller solenoid on the right side is the reset solenoid that lets the gear and stepper arms step back or reset. The larger solenoid on the bottom is the advance solenoid that moves the gear and wiper arms forward. Apart from doing everything the reset solenoid does as far as moving the gear and wiper arms is concerned, the advance solenoid must also wind up the torsion spring that is wrapped around the gear shaft. That torsion spring is what lets the gear and arms step back when the reset solenoid moves the arms out of the way.

If you push in the advance plunger and the stepper gets stuck you can help it along to complete its stroke. If the wipers end up over the contacts after you've nudged it along it's unlikely that your stepper needs adjustment.

Your stepper is likely binding because of added friction due to dirt, grime, old lube and/or wear. A good cleaning may be in order. It might also be a mushroomed plunger or worn coil sleeve. I'm pretty sure there are other topics that cover stepper cleaning.

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