Is it consistent across player counts? Try jumpering over the coin unit and the match discs on the reels straight to the player reset relay, or over the momentary switches on the score motor

Hi pinballman3
FIRST some theory
At the time Williams made these pins they had some problem to solve. The No-Match feature shall happen / take place at end of a game - in a FOUR player game (maybe) ALL FOUR players might gain a No-Match-Replay --- the pin then MUST step the Replay-Counter UP FOUR times.
So Williams then said: We do it with the help of the Score-Motor running.
Look at my JPG - "green line" is for player-1, "light-blue line" is for player-2, "dark-blue line" is for player-3, "burgundy-red line" is for player-4.

Another problem for us in testing is: It is a lot of work to play through a 4 player-game, through ALL balls - and at end we can make just one test. This would be awfully lot of work. so for the fisrt couple of tests: Lets CHEAT a bit on the pin - look at my JPG: Toggle-off, Unplug the pin (Safety Reasons" - establish a PERMANENT Jumpering "Coil to Adj-Jack", BUT HAVE THE ADJ-Jack NOT plugged-in ((( with this "not plugged-in" we do not really have a permanent connection - YOU will take the plug an tip-on at the socket of Adj-plug)))

Lets do a "mean trick" - see here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1072&picno=35552&zoom=1 I believe to see on the left and on the right some switches that will make FIVE HUNDERT POINTS. Every time you manually close such a switch: The 500-point-Relay pulls-in and calls for help of the (turning) score-Motor (((to give a player FIVE TIMES 100 points))) --- and WE just want to have the Score-Motor make a turn --- I am NOT interested in the 500 points - I AM interested in the Score-Motor turning.

So You have set the permanent Jumpering - manually set the No-Match-Unit to "ZERO-Position" - plug-in, toggle-on and start a FOUR PLAYER GAME - the pin has resetted and player-1 can play ball-1.
Attention: with ONE-Hand You make connection on the No-Match-Adj-Plug - does the Credit-Unit-Coil fires ? It should not therefore plug-in the Adj-plug - THEN activate the 500 points target on the playfield - Score-Motor turns - question: Do You get replays ? Greetings Rolf Ehrensperger

P.S.: This is my last post for today - in Switzerland it is 20 minutes past midnight - time to go to sleep.

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Hi pinballman3
grumble - no luck with an "quick and dirty test". I show here a part of the JPG (post-3). You have made "Test A" - You have prepared a Jumper "Coil to A" - You started a FOUR-Player-Game - then You have tipped-on at "A" - and then as there was no reaction: You then have clipped-on at "A" - THEN You have activated the 500-point-feature - so the Score-Motor made a (180 degree) turn. --- Unfortunately No stepping-up of the replay-counter ...

Please do the same "proceeding in testing" - do it to "B", then (next test) to "C", then "D", then "E" --- You well can do it to "E", then "D", then "C", then "B".

The ipdb-manual shows at page-24 (ori-22) the place for "B is wire-Grey-Red, feed, bottom-left" - also there is "C is wire-Yellow-Blue, 00-Match, upwards, left".
The ipdb-manual shows at page-17 (ori-15) the place for "D is wire-Brown-Yellow, 4th player No-Match, top-left" - also there is "E is wire-Green-Yellow, 4th player No-Match, top-left"

The way I want to do testing is (always) the same: With the very first test I make a loooooong-distance jumpering - then I jumper shorter and shorter distances (I narrow down on the problem). Greetings Rolf

P.S.: Do not forget to (always) start a 4-player-game, do not forget to (always) make the 500 points - as we NEED the Score-Motor turning.

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Hi pinballman3
the best for me is "help troubleshooting" on a pin I also DO HAVE. (((I can try-out first what I want to suggest)))

We do have a "problem" - this "problem" makes testing complicated. Sure, we do need the Score-Motor turning for "Our" testing --- "unfortunately for us" When we start a game and the pin does reset: Heavy use of Score-Motor-turning for to help resetting.
This is the reason we must pepare an jumper - not yet connected - we start a game (OK, OK the resetting lets the Score-Motor running) - pin comes to idle AND now: WE CAN ESTABLISH THE JUMPERING for our test.

And as I do not have the pin (and cannot do testing on my pin): I ask You to "first" tip-on - when "no reaction": CLIP-on and then do the 500-point activating.

I am irritated on "B" - lets concentrate (for now) on "Testing C". Do it again - You start a 4-player-game and ... get 4 replays.
Do it again - You start a 3-player-game and do You get THREE replays ?
Do it again - You start a 2-player-game and do You get TWO replays ?
Do it again - You start a 1-player-game and do You get ONE replay ?
Greetings Rolf

P.S.: post-6, problem with the "Test B" - question: The "problem" occurs when toggling-on ? or when starting a game ? (((We have to look at "Test B" again, later)))

Check the contact on the wiper unit of the coin unit.
When you look at the wiper it is the contact on the left side, clean and adjust it.
Could be the one your looking for.
Cleaning means the whole wiper unit and spider!
Check the tension of the switches on the wiper.

Hi pinballman3
I am delighted about the results of "Test-C". Two weeks have gone since I was studying the problems - I do a recapitulation.

The Score-Motor is an willing helper - when a feature-Q or feature-P or -R, -S is calling for help: Score-Motor makes a turn (of 180 degrees) AND ACTIVATES ALL Switches on all switchstacks on all wheels - EVERY turn. So when "feature-Q" is calling for help of the Score-Motor: "feature-Q" closes a (feature-Q Switch to accept the shots of electricity the Score-Motor-Switches let pass.
At that time feature-P, -R, -S are NOT calling for help - THEY have their featur-Switch(es) OPEN.

This circumstance we use - we activate the 500-point-relay - the relay calls for help of the Score-Motor. (((We let them add 5 times adding 100 points))) We manipulate "feature-Switch for No-Match"-testing and gladly have the Score-Motor doing everything - therefore doing what we need for our testing.

I show the JPG from post-5 again - enriched. In the bottom left corner: The Coin-Unit in a 1-Player-Game - in a 2 - in a 3 - in a 4-Player-Game. "My colors of wires" green is first player, light-blue is second player, dark-blue is third player, violet is fourth player.
With the four "Score-Drum-10-points" ALL in Position "we Drums show Zero Points": EVERY wire and ALL connections through the units "in the JPG from left to right" from wire-Yellow .... to "wire-Yellow-Blue, encircled orange 'C' ": WE HAVE connection --- ALL is good.

Look at my second JPG, the No-Match-Unit - The ONLY difference between "Test-C" and "Test-B" is: Test-C is "whithout testing the connection inside of the No-match-Unit" --- with Test-B we include that little red line - the connection INSIDE the No-Match-Unit.

So it is an non-pleasing miracle to me, "Result of Test-B". The fault that the Knocker sticks is easy to explain - whenever the "Coil on Credit-Unit" pulls: KNOCKER gets current.

Lets concentrate on "testing a ONE-Player-Game" - Have "not yet"clipped-on at "C" / "B" --- start a One-player-game ... pin comes to idle - NOW clip-on at "C" and do the trick with activating the 500 points - after successful testing simply change (pin still running) the "clip-on-point from "C" to "B" - do You really have the strange phenomena of "Credit-Unit and Knocker stick" ?

I stop here and wait for Your answer - I have prepared (brown wires in First JPG) some stuff to discuss different ways of jumpering - but first we must have "Credit-Unit / Knocker" NOT STICK. Greetings Rolf

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Hi pinballman3
we are looking for a fault, a connection should be --- but FAULTY no connection. Maybe You have come to the fault "faulty no connection through the No-Match-Unit" (?). Yes, wires are soldered-on and the wiper-blade is at its position - BUT the wiper-blade and/or rivet on the bakelite-plate is/are corroded --- NO connection - OR: Unit is out of order, the stuff has an offset - the wiper never makes connection when unit is at rest.

Lets check Your testing -
look at post-12, first JPG, "orange letter C and the soldered-on wire-color-yellow-blue" --- look at JPG-2: "encircled green is this solder-point and the wire-color-yellow-blue, question: and in Your pin ?
look at post-12, first JPG, "orange letter B and the soldered-on wire-color-grey-red" --- look at JPG-2: "encircled red is this solder-point and the wire-color-grey-red, question: and in Your pin ?

look at post-12, second JPG, "short red dash" - this shows: Unit is in Zero-Position, the wiper rides on the rivet so through here a connection is made - connecting wire-color-yellow-blue to wire-color-grey-red, question: and in Your pin ?

You may have to use a smooth sandpaper for cleaning the surfaces of wiper and rivet.

(((Shame on me - I do not fully understand the whole other stuff having connections into "our wiring to test" - so when the phenomena of "Coil sticks" shows up again: Write - and we do testing another way --- I like MOST "helping on a pin I also do own - so I have the chance to do 'testing I want to suppose' - I do the testing on MY pin and THEN I write about the testing in pinside" ...)))
Greetings Rolf

Hi Pinballman3
look at the first JPG in post-12 - You do make the coil fire when You do "Test-C" (You are busy with "orange letter-C, wire-color-yellow-blue").
You SAY: No Match Unit is set so there is a connection through "wiper / rivet on No-Match-Unit" making a permanent connection "wire-color-yellow-blue to wire-color-grey-red".
So doing a similar / next test "using orange letter-B, wire-color-gray-red" THEN the test MUST give the same result (as through wiper / rivet is connection from wire-yellow-blue to wire-gray-red). Otherwise the fault is right there.

Do not hurry with getting another No Match-Unit - look at the stuff again - clean - maybe use a solder-iron and solder-on again (You may have a "cold, faulty" solder-point. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: With a wooden stick want to press the wiper gently down onto the rivet ? (when doing the test - making sure the stuff touches so connection can be made)

Hi pinballman3
congratulations - You found the "tricky" fault. I assume everybody walks to a problem assuming "steppers / units are correct" - I / We have to look for an "broken-off wire" or an "oxidated contact-point on a switchblade on a relay" or for an "maladjusted switchblade on a relay" ...
Keep us informed about the problem "10 and 70 lights".

Grumble, sorry - I made You make "500 points to get the needed turn of the Score-Motor for a testing". I did not look it up on the schematics --- a pleasing circumstance in "many (not all) Williams pins" is - as many relays the Score-Motor ALSO has its "Self-Hold-Switch" --- pleasing: Very often it is "Index-Wheel, TOPMOST Switch". See the first JPG - from somewhere the Motor gets Initial-Current, starts to turn, lift up the Nylon-Spacers so (also) the topmost Switch is moved - "orange closes to green" and the motor keeps running (closed Self-Hold-Switch) until (turning of Score-Motor) all the Nylon-Spacers move down again, Self-Hold-Switch opens and Motor stops.

Try it - a game has been started, pin idles, You gently press the topmost Switch-Blade on Index-Wheel (near the "real motor") - press it gently down for a moment and let go - NICE: The Score-Motor makes a turn.

The second JPG I show because I DO NOT LIKE TO WORK ON SCORE-MOTOR-SWITCHES. I do a lot of testing (((hoping the fault is some other place))) - I ONLY work on a Score-Motor-Switch when I know 100%: The Switch IS FAULTY - I MUST work on it.

Lets say: "The left and right Eject-Coils do not fire" - SCM-4C is in question. I would like to clip-on a Jumper-Wire at "B" --- another Jumper-Wire at "C" - then beeing part of the brain of the pin: At the time the SCM-4C should close: I make contact "in the open". Yes, I would like to clip-on at "B" and at "C" - but I cannot get at "B" and at "C".

I then use "A instead of B" and I use "D instead of C" and do my testing. (((Because "A and B have direct wiring", "C and D have direct wiring")))
I keep in mind "maybe, maybe" the fault is inside the wire-color-BLU-R-2 and with "using A and D": I get faulty results.

Write about the mysterious problem "10 and 70 lights", greetings Rolf

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