(Topic ID: 276442)

grand prix outhole issue

By vipertblck

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 10 months ago by vipertblck
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    #1 10 months ago

    chasing things down 1 by one on this game. it will cycle players and score accordingly on most targets (some targets still need attention). working on the outhole issue currently. it doesn't spit the ball back out to the lane. if I hold closed the outhole switch and the L or R bonus relay, it'll usually cycle things through and fire the ball back out. so far here's what I've done. i'll go back through and re-trace my steps but I've got to be missing something here.
    1)starting at the score motor cam index c, black/blue wire going to the delay relay has continuity between the two.
    2)delay relay red/white wire to the outhole switch has continuity between the two.
    3)outhole switch has brown/red wire to the alternator relay with continuity.
    4)alternator relay has white/grey wire to the L bonus unit zero position switch with continuity
    alternator relay has brown/yellow wire to the R bonus unit zero position switch with continuity
    5)L zero position switch to the L bonus relay via green wire with continuity.
    R zero position switch to the R bonus relay via green/brown?(G-B) wire with continuity.
    6)coming out of the L & R bonus relays with a black/blue wire coming into the outhole relay.

    I understand this is just going down to the outhole relay and not firing the actual coil that shoots the ball, but in order for that coil to fire, this outhole relay needs to be energized, correct?

    i'll go back and make sure the switches are all transferring continuity when closed. what am I missing here?

    #2 10 months ago

    This is the circuit to check: the M/B on the Outhole relay and the score motor sw. 4A.

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    #3 10 months ago
    Quoted from currieddog:

    This is the circuit to check: the M/B on the Outhole relay and the score motor sw. 4A.
    [quoted image]

    thanks, bear with me through this. the M/B switches on the outhole relay, check ALL OF THEM to make sure they are open/closed as intended, with the relay on and off? I can check the schematic and find the #4 wheel on the cam and figure which switches are A, should be brown/orange and a brown/yellow for 4A?

    #4 10 months ago
    Quoted from vipertblck:

    thanks, bear with me through this. the M/B switches on the outhole relay, check ALL OF THEM to make sure they are open/closed as intended, with the relay on and off? I can check the schematic and find the #4 wheel on the cam and figure which switches are A, should be brown/orange and a brown/yellow for 4A?

    F on the Outhole.

    Capture (resized).pngCapture1 (resized).PNG
    #5 10 months ago

    all is good here, I can manually push the outhole relay by hand and it'll hold it, cycle things through, and fire the ball release coil.

    #6 10 months ago

    FOUND IT! issue is the cam isn't stopping in the correct space. there's M.B. switch stack on cam index C. when in the correct position, this switch stack connects yellow and a black/blue wire, thus supplying voltage all the way down path! if I took the yellow wire and applied that directly to the red/white wire on the outhole switch (as it would be during normal operation), it fires the ball release coil everytime u hit the switch. so, my problem lies in the came not stopping in the correct spot. how do I fix or align this?

    on the index cam, you can see the switch stack is open, riding on the cam. the "divit" in the cam wheel is at about the 11 o clock position, when it needs to be in the 12 o clock position for correct operation (to get voltage to the outhole switch). is there a procedure for adjusting the cams correctly?

    #7 10 months ago
    Quoted from vipertblck:

    FOUND IT! issue is the cam isn't stopping in the correct space. there's M.B. switch stack on cam index C. when in the correct position, this switch stack connects yellow and a black/blue wire, thus supplying voltage all the way down path! if I took the yellow wire and applied that directly to the red/white wire on the outhole switch (as it would be during normal operation), it fires the ball release coil everytime u hit the switch. so, my problem lies in the came not stopping in the correct spot. how do I fix or align this?
    on the index cam, you can see the switch stack is open, riding on the cam. the "divit" in the cam wheel is at about the 11 o clock position, when it needs to be in the 12 o clock position for correct operation (to get voltage to the outhole switch). is there a procedure for adjusting the cams correctly?

    My score motor was giving me trouble like this. Stopping late. Same issue of balls getting stuck in kickouts. Cleaning the gear release on the drive shaft fixed mine. The gears continue to turn after the power is cut. There is a gear on a spring on the driveshaft is pulled into position by the powered motor, and is supposed to spring back when power is cut so that the cams don't continue to turn

    #8 10 months ago
    Quoted from Thunder90:

    My score motor was giving me trouble like this. Stopping late. Same issue of balls getting stuck in kickouts. Cleaning the gear release on the drive shaft fixed mine. The gears continue to turn after the power is cut. There is a gear on a spring on the driveshaft is pulled into position by the powered motor, and is supposed to spring back when power is cut so that the cams don't continue to turn

    thanks! it's almost as if I need to re-set the timing on mine though....if that makes sense. focusing on the index cam, mines stopping too early. needs to stop at the 12 o clock position and it's stopping at the 11. it seems as if something is telling it to stop too early though. if I manually trigger the reset relay with my finger, it'll reset and cycle through everything and stop in the correct position at 12 o clock, but if I hit the button on the front of the cabinet it stops at 11 o clock. there is a freeplay doorbell adapter hooked up to the front that seems to override the main original red button somehow, could this be tied to my issue somehow?

    also did you have any guide or something explaining the cleaning procedure you did on your score motor?

    #9 10 months ago
    Quoted from Thunder90:

    My score motor was giving me trouble like this. Stopping late. Same issue of balls getting stuck in kickouts. Cleaning the gear release on the drive shaft fixed mine. The gears continue to turn after the power is cut. There is a gear on a spring on the driveshaft is pulled into position by the powered motor, and is supposed to spring back when power is cut so that the cams don't continue to turn

    Quoted from vipertblck:

    thanks! it's almost as if I need to re-set the timing on mine though....if that makes sense. focusing on the index cam, mines stopping too early. needs to stop at the 12 o clock position and it's stopping at the 11. it seems as if something is telling it to stop too early though. if I manually trigger the reset relay with my finger, it'll reset and cycle through everything and stop in the correct position at 12 o clock, but if I hit the button on the front of the cabinet it stops at 11 o clock. there is a freeplay doorbell adapter hooked up to the front that seems to override the main original red button somehow, could this be tied to my issue somehow?
    also did you have any guide or something explaining the cleaning procedure you did on your score motor?

    I had a similair issue on Bally Night Rider and I shot some PB Blaster in it and worked grwat.

    Edit I should have stated the little wheel that pulls in when the motor runs is where I sprayed PB Blaster.

    #11 10 months ago

    the article is helpful but not applicable to my issue. Switches seem to all be adjusted correctly so far. my problem is the motor/cams are stopping too soon. they need to rotate a little bit more when in the "rest" position.

    #12 10 months ago

    Hi vipertblck
    from the posts in the topic I do not really know at what problem You are working right now - Outhole not kicking out the ball ? Not functioning "Start by pressing the Credit-Button ? Other ?

    Motor stopping short --- a test You can do - wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stick (You do not want to have current flow through Your body) - when the pin is toggled on and the motor is (+/-) in Home-Position: Gently press down the TOPMOST blade of the switchstack on the INDEX-Cam and "let go / quit pressing" about after 1/4 of a second - what does the Score-Motor do ? stops ? runs to 11 o clock ? runs to 12 o clock ?
    In the schematics on "area 16B" You see: The upper half of the topmost switch is the "creating Self-Hold-Current" switch. Greetings Rolf

    #13 10 months ago
    Quoted from vipertblck:

    the article is helpful but not applicable to my issue.

    My mistake for not reading all the way thru; I thought it was getting to it. Something just occurred to me though: can the switch stack be moved back? Or will that mess up other things?

    Here is a pic of the motor, apart. You want to clean the part that moves in and out.

    Capture (resized).PNG
    #14 10 months ago
    Quoted from currieddog:

    My mistake for not reading all the way thru; I thought it was getting to it. Something just occurred to me though: can the switch stack be moved back? Or will that mess up other things?
    Here is a pic of the motor, apart. You want to clean the part that moves in and out.
    [quoted image]

    thank you! part that slides meaning the long shaft the cams are on, labeled 2a-2994 in the photo? that's the only thing I could see that may move in and out?

    #15 10 months ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi vipertblck
    from the posts in the topic I do not really know at what problem You are working right now - Outhole not kicking out the ball ? Not functioning "Start by pressing the Credit-Button ? Other ?
    Motor stopping short --- a test You can do - wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stick (You do not want to have current flow through Your body) - when the pin is toggled on and the motor is (+/-) in Home-Position: Gently press down the TOPMOST blade of the switchstack on the INDEX-Cam and "let go / quit pressing" about after 1/4 of a second - what does the Score-Motor do ? stops ? runs to 11 o clock ? runs to 12 o clock ?
    In the schematics on "area 16B" You see: The upper half of the topmost switch is the "creating Self-Hold-Current" switch. Greetings Rolf

    checked 16B on the schematic and don't see any of the switch-stacks labeled something about creating a self hold current. good idea to try pushing the index cam stack though! will give that a try and see what happens! would like to find this switch you're mentioning though as maybe it's releasing the self hold current to soon!? my problem now is that the cams are stopping too soon, thus not creating a contact on the INDEX cam and allowing voltage to flow to the outhole switch. my cams are stopping too soon and the circuit to flow voltage to the outhole switch is still open.

    #16 10 months ago
    Quoted from currieddog:

    can the switch stack be moved back?

    Is it on the right position? That would account for the 11:00/12:00 thing.

    and the circled area shows (approx) where there is a moving gear that engages when energized. It sometimes gets gunked up. Clean with rubbing alcohol or mineral spirits.

    Capture (resized).png
    #17 10 months ago

    Here you see the correct position with the tooth in the cam groove. This allows voltage to go to the outhole switch and operate correctly. It stops in this position is I manually hit the reset relay

    image (resized).jpg
    #18 10 months ago

    Here you can see the tooth isn’t in the notch. It’s behind it. This is wher it ends when a ball is on the field or drained or switching between players. This position of the tooth not in the spot, doesn’t allow voltage to the outhole switch to operate

    Looking at the index cam closest to score motor

    image (resized).jpg

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