(Topic ID: 195473)

Grand Prix - Grand Issues

By jmulvenon

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 3 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by jorgay
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

game_off (resized).JPG
game_start (resized).JPG
#1 6 years ago

That title is perhaps a touch dramatic but here you are so maybe it worked. In the process of fixing up my Grand Prix I've run into and subsequently fixed a number of issues however I feel as though more and more are popping up and I'm honestly at a bit of a loss. I'll begin where the most recent issues popped up.

1. Left Sling – In replacing the coil for the left sling I got a little over-zealous and ended up popping the solder lead out of the stand-up switch. I replaced the switch and soldered back the appropriate wires. I had assumed this was causing an entirely separate issue that is number 2 on this list.

2. Top Eject Saucer – About 50% of the time the ball lands in this saucer the game goes into an infinite kick-out loop where each eject saucer constantly fires. This can be resolved by hitting either of the slings, hence why I assumed the issue was being caused by the broken sling switch. Guess not as it's still occurring.

3. Scoring – On player 1 no matter the state of the game the right most chime will never sound, however, the chime will work on player 2. For reference there are no game sounds when drop targets, pop bumpers, or spinners are hit. Further, the 10,000 score unit coil on both player 1 and player 2 buzzes seemingly constantly during active play. Definitely more pronounced on player 2, although I believe this is buzzing the far right or largest chime coil as well.

4. Player Index – I cannot for the life of me get the game to cycle to player 3. The ball will drain over and over again and the "2up" light will flash off, "1up" light will flash extremely quickly and the game will index back to Player 2. Drain again, same cycle.

Of note, the tens unit coil on player 1 and player 4 need replaced but have not yet been soldered back into place. I don't think this is of note as I have the reels placed in the zeroes position to eliminate the infinite loop when starting a game. Also, I've blown the game out with an air compressor as someone had suggested to me once as a potential fix.

Further, a scoring/chime and leaf-switch assembly (see photos, first is game start & second is game off) is staying energized on game start. I think this is the root of the scoring issue (#3) but I can't figure out why it's staying energized.

I have to think this is something simple somewhere that I'm just overlooking but with so many issues that are seemingly random my brain cannot focus and solve one issue at a time. I need to go through and check the resistance of every coil in the game to make sure that's not the culprit here. There's some rogue buzzing from a coil in the cabinet (I think) that I can't track down.

Any help on any of these issues would be greatly appreciated, or hell even a "this is how you fix it idiot" would be great. Thanks!

game_start (resized).JPGgame_start (resized).JPG
game_off (resized).JPGgame_off (resized).JPG

#2 6 years ago

I'm working on a Grand Prix at the moment where it's probably 95% working but it does have a few issues. What I'm about to suggest is how I deal with an EM when I first get one in. I've talked to others that have a different philosophy on attacking issues, but this is mine.

First I do similar to what you've already done. Play the game and list out what's wrong. That's more so you can understand what wrong and if what was wrong gets fixed along the way. Having the schematics printed out and in front of you I look at the coils and switches to see what's all related. I don't go making any changes just yet, but just get a feel for what relays, steppers, switches, score motor cams, etc. are part of these circuits. It's like having a map of where you are going on a trip. You look at the map before you leave so you understand kind of where to turn and what towns you are going through before you leave.

First, unplug all the Jones plugs on the relay board in the bottom of the cabinet and backbox. Unplug the knocker, coin door and chimes. Remove the chime box. Remove the playfield from the game and set aside. Remove the two screws from the bottom relay board and pull out of the cabinet and set on a bench.

Start with the relays and move each by hand to make sure all the closed switches open and all the open switches close. You can quickly clean all the contacts and adjust any where the gaps don't look right. Next move to the steppers and make sure each advances once when you manually press the advance coil plunger and reset or move back one position when you manually press the reset plunger. There are two steppers units in the bottom. Use a scotchbrite pad and gently clean the rivets and bottom of the wiper arm contacts. I apply a thin layer of contact grease to the board the rivets are on. Make sure that whole mechanism moves freely. Sometimes you have to take it apart and clean gunk out of it. Keep track of the springs and make sure the main spring you count the turns before you remove.

Do this for all relays, the score motor and steppers in the head as well. Then remove each score reel, take it apart and clean. Then go through all the switches on each score reel and clean and adjust them as well. There are quite a few so it will take some time.

Lastly, do the same with everything under the playfield including the relays with the plastic cams for the spinners.

Yes it's a time consuming process and from start to finish you'll probably have 8 hours into going through the entire game. I'll guarantee you if you spend your time cleaning and adjusting everything it will be at least 95% there...sometimes 100%. After that you can chase down the few issues that may still be present.

Now with that said, there may be things that are just not going to get solved from the above process and that's if someone went in and cut wires or soldered in extra wires. I've even had an issue with a Bally Monte Carlo that would go player 1, player 3, player 1 and then Game Over. After much time trying to figure this out, I noticed what appeared to be some work on a Jones plug by a previous owner. Upon looking much, much closer, one strand of wire from the wire going to the pin below was accidentally soldered to the pin above. Pulled that one strand out and fixed!

Good luck.

1 week later
#3 6 years ago

Awesome reply and info @schudel5! We're going to strip the machine - we'll definitely make sure to post the results.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 24.98
Hardware
Gameroom Mods
 
$ 12.00
From: $ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
 
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
 
1,650 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Lincoln Park, NJ
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/grand-prix-grand-issues?hl=fatcake and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.