(Topic ID: 326929)

Grand Prix Delay Relay Starting to Fail

By JRC6000

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 4 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by JRC6000
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Rectifier (resized).png (© ©2022 Mark Gibson All Righs Rese)
Grand Prix Delay relay (resized).jpg
Capacitor on Schematic (resized).png
#1 1 year ago

Hey Everyone, I'm hoping I might get some information about how the delay relay works in Grand Prix and what exactly the capacitor does. My Grand Prix has been working great for a long time. Recently the delay relay started getting longer and longer when the ball hits the kick out hole. I tend to pulse the flippers the ball is stuck in the hole and it'll release, but I really don't know if that is doing anything or not.

I know the delay is triggered by the spinners and should release once they stop, but mine is starting not to. Is this something with the capacitor? Do these need to be replaced eventually? What really does the capacitor do?

Thanks in advance.

Capacitor on Schematic (resized).pngCapacitor on Schematic (resized).png
#2 1 year ago

First let's zoom out a little on the schematic:
Grand Prix Delay relay (resized).jpgGrand Prix Delay relay (resized).jpg
The 1.0 uF capacitor you show above, in parallel with the Bridge Rectifier, is a smoothing capacitor that reduces the ripple in the DC voltage the rectifier creates from AC. This shows how the AC from the transformer gets rectified by the bridge, and then smoothed by the capacitor.
Rectifier (resized).pngRectifier (resized).png
Note that rectified and smoothed voltage isn't the same as DC voltage, but it's close enough. DC voltage generated from a battery for example has no ripple in it but is just a constant voltage.

The Delay relay coil in the upper left of the schematic has another capacitor (300 uF) in parallel with it. It delays the activation of the Delay relay after either of the switches on the Spinner relays closes.

Without the capacitor there, closing the L or R Spinner relay switch will instantly apply the smoothed, rectified (almost but not quite DC) voltage to the Delay relay coil which would activate it almost instantly, just like the jet bumpers just below it in the schematic. With the capacitor in place the behavior changes when the switch closes.

Capacitors can't change their voltage instantly and must instead be charged relatively slowly. So when a Spinner relay switch closes the voltage across the capacitor is initially zero, as is the current through the Delay relay coil. The voltage across the capacitor rises relatively slowly as the capacitor charges up, and the current through the Delay relay coil also rises slowly. Eventually the voltage across the capacitor rises high enough, and the current through the Delay relay coil is high enough to activate the Delay relay.

If your delay is getting longer you might try cleaning the two switches that drive the Delay relay coil. If they're dirty, that would increase the resistance of the switches and decrease the amount of current they could supply to charge the capacitor. That would make charging the capacitor take longer.

It's also possible that the capacitor has developed an internal short which would also make it harder (or take longer) to charge up.

/Mark

#3 1 year ago

Good reply

#4 1 year ago

Wow, this was awesome. Thanks for taking the time. I certainly understand better now. While I was “sure” it wouldn’t work, I cleaned the contacts under the spinners, and now it seems to be working like it did. Can’t believe it was that simple.

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