(Topic ID: 211975)

Grand Prix bonus count down - SOLVED

By HD_Fatboy

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

My Grand Prix when the ball goes in the right kickout hole counts down left and right bonus. First the right then the left. When ball goes in the left kickout it counts down only the left.

#2 6 years ago

Right hole is malfunctioning.

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#3 6 years ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

My Grand Prix when the ball goes in the right kickout hole counts down left and right bonus. First the right then the left. When ball goes in the left kickout it counts down only the left.

What are the Left Bonus relay and Right Bonus relay doing when this happens?

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What are the Left Bonus relay and Right Bonus relay doing when this happens?

I will check these relays and report back

#5 6 years ago

all fixed thanks HowardR

#6 6 years ago

Well, I am Sorry I was wrong it is not fixed. All works correctly when I activate the switches manually. Is there something going on when using a ball? Is the ball supposed to kick out of the hole before the bonus countdown is completed?

When using the ball, it sets in the right hole, and then counts down right bonus and then left bonus. Could it be a switch adjustment?

Another thing that is happening, is on the left bonus if there are no bonus lit, then the ball goes in the hole and never ejects.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

on the left bonus if there are no bonus lit, then the ball goes in the hole and never ejects.

If the Eject relay doesn't activate when this happens, diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

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#8 6 years ago

Ok I have been working on this since I last posted. I got the left kickout hole to work correctly every time. I need to adjust the wiper board. So here is what happens with the fight kickout hole. I manually load up bonus on left and right sides. If I manually trigger right side it counts down right side bonus but does not activate kickout solenoid so if I activate a second time it then activated right kickout solenoid but also makes left bonus count down. I think we need the right side solenoid to fire the first time the ball is in the hole. Does me description make sense to anyone? This is driving me crazy. There is two sets of switches activated by the kickout not sure if that’s the issue or not but both sides are set the same. Both open and the back closed them.

#9 6 years ago

Anyone?

#10 6 years ago

I don't see that you thought about or answered either of my posts to your topic.

#11 6 years ago

I did reply HowardR. I fixed the eject problem I had on the left side I needed to adjust the left bonus wiper board.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

I did reply HowardR. I fixed the eject problem I had on the left side I needed to adjust the left bonus wiper board.

Works for me.

#13 6 years ago

A am still plugging away trying to figure out why the right side bonus isn't working as it should.

#14 6 years ago

Hi HD_Fatboy
An non-pleasing miracle "after counting down the right bonus: Then faulty counting down the left bonus". At the moment I have not an idea worth writing about.
I would like to do some tests - I believe to read in / from Your post-8: You do tests with the playfield lifted - and You manually trigger / simulate "ball rolls into the right Eject-Hole". You write "manually trigger ... then activate a second time" --- the way the pin is constructed: YOU MUST keep the switches actuated / closed - ALL THE TIME the pin is busy giving points / stepping down the bonus-ladder. Do NOT tip-on and take Your finger away --- the pin NEEDS the switches closed all the time.

You wrote "There are TWO set of switches" - Yes, see the JPG: "encircled green" is the switch to make the right Bonus-Relay to pull-in (it then stays pulling as the bonus is stepped down). When You have bonus: The situation is "as my drawn brown lines, a bit below in the JPG" - when stepping from 1 bonus down to zero bonus: The Eject-Relay must pull-in.
The second switch on the right Eject-Hole is encircled blue --- it is for: The pin MUST immediately step-up to one bonus to end the feature "ball has landed in the right Eject-Hole".

Please do testing again - park Your finger (hihi - I try to evade a joke) in the Eject hole - have the finger there until the kicker kicks Your finger - THEN take the finger away. And then write a new description "this is happening". Greetings Rolf

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#15 6 years ago

Hi Rolf
Thanks For stopping in. When I leave my finger in the right hole it counts down the right side bonus then it counts down the left side bonus . The kickour solenoid fires as it starts the left side bonus count down, but continues counting down the bonus until no points are left. So in another words when the ball goes into right side it counts down the bonus for both sides. When ball goes into left hole it counts down only the left side bonus.

#16 6 years ago

Hi HD_Fatboy
thanks for doing the test. With "parking the finger to close the switches permanent" we made little progress as (only) the weird behavior of "two times closing the switch needed" has vanished --- but basically we are back on the problem / description "Your post-1".
An important information is Your answer to "Did ever Your pin was AAA: fully functioning - then the fault started to happen --- or did You BBB buy "the pin with this fault" ?
When You say AAA: We can exclude - when You say BBB: We must consider that an preowner made some strange / creative wiring --- (((the schematics only shows "original wiring")))

The ipdb-manual http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1072/Williams_1976_Grand_Prix_Manual.pdf tells me on page-12 (ori-10): left and right bonus-unit are mounted on the playfield, left and right bonus-relay are mounted on the playfield, left and right Eject Kickers are mounted on the playfield --- but the Eject-RELAY is mounted on the bottom panel in the cabinet.

You wrote "LEFT (Eject-Hole) feature fully works" - the design is "counting down the left bonus - then the Eject-RELAY pulls in AND the LEFT bonus unit is stepped up one step - then the ball gets kicked out" --- question: Does Your LEFT feature ends with "stepping the LEFT bonus unit up one step - then kicking out the ball" ?
In post-15 You write "testing right Eject-Hole-feature: The Kick-out-Solenoid fires (as it faulty starts on the left))) - question: Is the RIGHT Bonus-Unit stepped up one step when the kickout-coil fires (((the schematics tells me: Every time BOTH kickout coils fire as they are connected (due to parallel wiring) )))
Am I allowed to say "a foreign person looks at the pin - his description: The ball rolls into the right Eject-Hole - the right bonus is counted / stepped down - the ball is kicked out, the right bonus is stepped up one bonus - ball is moving on on the playfield --- strange, the left Eject-Hole-feature then happens" (((If we do not find the cause of the fault: I am tempted to try to do an work-around - suppressing the faulty "and then the left Eject-Hole-feature happens")))

Please write about:
Does the bonus steps up one bonus (from zero to one bonus) when the feature ends on the left side ? And on the right side ?
Does the LEFT Bonus-RELAY pulls-in and stays pulling at the very moment the faulty "left side" starts happening ? Greetings Rolf

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi HD_Fatboy
An important information is Your answer to "Did ever Your pin was AAA: fully functioning - then the fault started to happen --- or did You BBB buy "the pin with this fault" ?

I purchased the pin with this fault, the wiring looks original as far as I can tell.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi HD_Fatboy
Please write about:
Does the bonus steps up one bonus (from zero to one bonus) when the feature ends on the left side ? And on the right side ?
Does the LEFT Bonus-RELAY pulls-in and stays pulling at the very moment the faulty "left side" starts happening ?

The bonus does not step up one bonus on the left side, The bonus does step up one on the right side
The left bonus relay pulls in and stays pulling in when the left side hole is activated.

The left side hole activates the eject relay in the cabinet as soon as there is a ball in the left hole
The right side hole does not activate the eject relay until the bonus is counted down.

#18 6 years ago

Hi HD_Fatboy
I hope for a miracle - we fix on the pin what is not fully functioning - and then (miracle) the fault with the bonus dissapears. (((And the other faults You sure want to fix at a time - lets do it now.)))
I choose "left Eject-Hole-feature" --- the Eject-Relay shall not pull-in when there are some bonus on the left bonus-ladder - and the ball rolls into left Eject-Hole. On the JPG (taken from the ipdb-manual) we see the left bonus unit drawn in position "Zero bonus on the unit" --- adding bonus makes (step, step, step) the wiper-arms to turn counterclockwise.
"my green line" shows the connection "Zero Bonus" --- "my red line" shows the connection / position seven bonus. Then the ball rolls into the left Eject-Relay - the bonus unit is rhythmically stepped clockwise, stepped down --- see: "for many steps there is connection "encircled-13 to encircled-15" --- and then on the last step "ONE-bonus down to ZERO-bonus": NOW the connection is made "encircled-13 to encircled-14" and NOW the Eject-Relay is allowed / must pull-in (((not: before that last step down))).

Please have a look at the unit - wires soldered-on --- BR-BLU and BLU-BR and W-B --- somewhere a short ? wipers not centered on the rivets ? wires running from "at the out-rim soldered-on - running into the unit - soldered-on at the rivets ?

While I wait for Your answer: I study / write on "Bonus-Unit should been stepped-up from Zero to ONE bonus at the very end of the feature". Greetings Rolf

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#19 6 years ago

Rolf, We Have our MIRACLE!!!!!!!
I examined all wires and connections on the left side wiper board. I found two wires that are soldered on to two separeted tabs bent and touching to gether. As you may know with grand prix the left hand bonus stepper unit can hit the cabinet when raising lowering the playfield it looks like these two wire tabs at some point got bent and touched each other. Left and Right bonus now works correctly. You are amazing!

Thanks very much

Mike

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

Rolf, We Have our MIRACLE!!!!!!!
I examined all wires and connections on the left side wiper board. I found two wires that are soldered on to two separeted tabs bent and touching to gether. As you may know with grand prix the left hand bonus stepper unit can hit the cabinet when raising lowering the playfield it looks like these two wire tabs at some point got bent and touched each other. Left and Right bonus now works correctly. You are amazing!
Thanks very much
Mike

#21 6 years ago

Hi HD_Fatboy
great - You found the fault. I gladly accept the miracle. Maybe (maybe) it was like I show in the JPG: See "my red line" extending to the connecting line "wire in the pin-color-BR-BLU-3". When the right bonus is counted down reaching zero position: Connection (my brown line) is made to make the Eject-Relay to pull-in. FAULTY along the "my red line" the left Bonus-Relay is made to pull-in ...
In normal operation the fault is slumbering because open are the two "encircled rosa/pink switches" and the "encircled green switch".

On the top of the topic - above post-1, to the right: There is an icon to mark topic "as solved" --- I just happen to like to see these marks - please mark topic "as solved". Greetings Rolf

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