(Topic ID: 273252)

RESOLVED Grand Lizard solenoids not working


By RC_like_the_cola

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by snyper2099
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 months ago

Was playing a game. In multiball, had the Elwin with 2 balls on the left flipper and 1 on the right. Was about to start working on scoring and both flippers died. It was ball 3, so game ended. Started another one real quick and flippers still dead. Pulled the back glass after checking for the lower flipper coils being really hot (there were not). Smelled burning in the back box. There is a brown spot between the mpu/driver board and the sound board, but that may be just from the resistors on the lamp panel that sit pretty much right there. Checked all fuses and all were good, except the flipper power board fuse. Dead. I had removed the main board from the game to look behind for any burns before I realized that brown spot was likely from those resistors. All looks fine on the board. I rebuilt the power supply fully last year, so I'm guessing something died on the flipper power board, like the bridge. I read that CPU lockups can cause that fuse to blow, but no other coils were having issues or acting wonky. Just a double cradle for a few seconds when they died. Gonna test that bridge, but figured I'd put up a post to see if anyone had other ideas. Gonna post a couple pics as well, for reference.
IMG_20200717_221628490 (resized).jpgIMG_20200717_222811876 (resized).jpg

#2 6 months ago

My grand lizard blew the flipper board fuse as well. I replaced the fuse and it did work after. But I went ahead and bought this to be safe. Pretty inexpensive

http://pinballpcb.com/products/system-9-11-flipper-power-supply/

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from topkat:

My grand lizard blew the flipper board fuse as well. I replaced the fuse and it did work after. But I went ahead and bought this to be safe. Pretty inexpensive
http://pinballpcb.com/products/system-9-11-flipper-power-supply/

Did you experience any weird smell? I didn't want to just replace it since I had the smell also.

#4 6 months ago

No I didn’t. It seemed to blow for no obvious reason. That was part of the reason I went with a new board , felt safer long term.
Maybe make sure the flipper coils aren’t burnt before the replacing the fuse? I have smelled burnt before and it’s not always easy to figure where it was from.
Admittedly I only know basic things to look for. But checking the flipper coils seems like safe and Easy step.

#5 6 months ago

Since the F2 is blown, test the bridge rectifier on the board. Should be the only reason the fuse blew according to all the info you provided.

#6 6 months ago

Bridge and resistor tested fine on the flipper board. Was late last night, but lifted the playfield this morning and found the upper left flipper EOS switch blade was broken so it was not opening. That coil is seized. Issue found. While the game is open, I'll replace all EOS switches. Thanks for the ideas. Guess I should've waited till I had a chance to check under the playfield before posting.

#7 6 months ago

I was going to say a non working EOS switch could keep the high voltage on causing the fuse to blow too.

You are learning, so that is great.

2 weeks later
#8 5 months ago

Installed a new coil and EOS switch. While playing a test game, the flippers died again and that same brand new coil is now ruined. It was super hot to the touch and when cooled the plunger will no longer fit into it. Not visibly melted like the last one. EOS has an eighth inch gap, as it should. Diode orientation was the same as the old coil, so I transferred the wires one by one to the proper lugs. Anything else cause this or do you think the EOS was the issue again?

1 week later
#9 5 months ago

While waiting for my new flipper coil, another issue is happening. Most all other coils and flashers are not working correctly. I did a coil test and here are the coils that work: knocker, both magnets, bell and coin lockout. When all other coils should fire, the backbox flashers for the lizard eyes flash instead. The only flasher that works properly is the lower left flasher above next the the LIZ targets. When all others should flash, the same backbox lizard eye flashers flash. It is my understanding that this game does not use the AC relay set up, so I'm not sure what happened. This game was totally fine until the flippers died due to that EOS switch causing the coil to melt, thus causing the fuse to pop on the flipper power board. Any ideas on what might have caused this?

Thanks,
RC

#10 5 months ago

I do have 29vdc at the power supply and am getting power at the coils. 22vdc.

#12 5 months ago

Bump again for the smart guys

#13 5 months ago

Wanted to be a bit more clear after some advice. Here is what goes on during a coil test:

1 - outhole solenoid = fires lizard eyes (solenoid #13)
2 - 3-bank solenoid = fires lizard eyes
3 - 4-bank left solenoid = fires lizard eyes
4 - 4-bank right solenoid = fires lizard eyes
5 - lockup solenoid = fires lizard eyes
6 - lockup flasher = fires lizard eyes
7 - magnet left flasher = WORKS
8 - ball feed solenoid = fires lizard eyes

9 - magnet left (through relay board) = WORKS
10 - magnet right (through relay board) = WORKS
11 - GI relay = WORKS
12 - 3-bank flasher = fires lizard eyes
13 - lizard eyes flasher = WORKS
14 - knocker solenoid = WORKS
15 - bell solenoid = WORKS
16 - coin lockout relay = WORKS

17 - kicker left solenoid = fires lizard eyes
18 - kicker right solenoid = fires lizard eyes
19 - magnet right flasher = fires lizard eyes
20 - UNUSED
21 - UNUSED
22 - UNUSED

#14 5 months ago

Post this in the GL Club thread too. You might see a little more action.

#15 5 months ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

I do have 29vdc at the power supply and am getting power at the coils. 22vdc.

That's not correct. That's more likely a lamp voltage. Where are you placing your black and red probes when testing for DC voltage at all your coils?

You have 10 instances where the lizard eyes flasher is incorrectly coming on... that's a fairly strange problem...

Also, did you move any plugs on the driver board? It really sounds like either a plug is wrong (when you pulled the board and reinstalled it-it happens!) or the PIA on the driver/MPU that drives those 10 solenoids is toast. Suks because the PIA is not likely to be socket-ed.

For the flipper issue, which of the 4 flipper(s) are we looking at that got hot? It's important because of the way the lower and upper flippers+EOS's are wired.

#16 5 months ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

That's not correct. That's more likely a lamp voltage. Where are you placing your black and red probes when testing for DC voltage at all your coils?
You have 10 instances where the lizard eyes flasher is incorrectly coming on... that's a fairly strange problem...
Also, did you move any plugs on the driver board? It really sounds like either a plug is wrong (when you pulled the board and reinstalled it-it happens!) or the PIA on the driver/MPU that drives those 10 solenoids is toast. Suks because the PIA is not likely to be socket-ed.
For the flipper issue, which of the 4 flipper(s) are we looking at that got hot? It's important because of the way the lower and upper flippers+EOS's are wired.

For the coil voltage, I placed my black lead on the ground braid and red lead on either lug of the coil.

All coils get 25vdc right, except flippers?

The flipper coil that melted was the upper left. I replaced it and moved one wire at a time to the same lug locations. New coil diode was the same orientation as the old.

I'm not sure how I could've killed a PIA, but it is possible.

I took pics before I unplugged stuff and put it back the way the pic showed, I believe. I can double check again when home. I agree the issue is a weird one.

#17 5 months ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

I do have 29vdc at the power supply and am getting power at the coils. 22vdc.

Well, there should really not be a 7 volt loss here. That's why I was questioning your testing. Might be a volt off but no way should it be 7 volt difference if you are testing the same voltage.

#18 5 months ago

Thinking this little red guy is my issue. Traced the voltage front the PS to the connector and get 29vdc on both sides. Then it enters the playfield at this flasher and one wire is broken. This is where my voltage drops to 22vdc. Must've broken from me having to lift and lower the playfield so much recently.

IMG_20200813_182100643 (resized).jpg
#19 5 months ago

All back together and working good now. Found the reason the brand new coil burned was the new EOS was misadjusted. Looked good when activating the coil manually from the link, but there was so much play, it wasn't opening wide enough with just the plunger. New plunger this time with the new coil. Replaced all other EOS switches while under the hood also. Reattached that red power wire to the flasher and the rest of the game came back to life as well. Played a couple test games and good to go.

#20 5 months ago

Nice, thanks for the follow up. It’s so important to post that information.

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