Gottlieb games from 61 - 67 were in a different league quality wise to the 70's games.

Not sure why but that era playfields last so much better than 70's playfields.

And you had copper bells, instead of chimes, brass everywhere.

Quality starting going down hill in the 1968 games - not sure why - anyone?

No, you are not imagining this. I call it the NVH of a 60's game. It might be the damping of the solid wood cabinet v. the plywood of later games.

I think ball speed on 2" v 3" flippers.

Surely it must be due to how they clear coated and finished them? Way more planking in 70's games, even lowish plays one whereas I have seen early 60's games with 70000 plays and zero planking.

I guess like all companies, they had to cut costs and it showed.

Williams games from the 60s are also built like tanks. Strong mechanics inside. As well as solid cabinets.

It could have been something as simple and as uncontrollable as the quality of the plywood that they purchased to make playfields with. Moisture content in wood is a major factor in how well it will wear in an application such as a pinball playfield. And, keep in mind that when pinball manufacturers were making games back then, they didn't design them for the long haul. Yes, they made them solid for heavy use over a relatively short period of time (like maybe 3-4 years), but they didn't make them to last twenty years or more. It could be that the quality of the plywood was better in the '60s than in the '70s.

Sounds about right to me.

Ken

My 60's games hold up like a 60's Lincoln or Cadillac. God I love them because of this. Don't get me wrong I like 70's games but I love 60's games from 63-67. From Slick Chick to Sing Along. It is why I have a personal quest over the next few years to acquire 10+ of the 17 available and I am already 3 of them on my way on the checklist.

The quality of the soldering seemed to seriously decline, especially on the relay banks, about the time they did away with the manual ball lift.

Like most manufacturers they probably thought "how can I make it cheaper" but still make it work? If 70's games were only meant to last 3-4 years on location they did pretty good IMHO!

I grew up with a Pro Pool from 1973. This was in a household with 3 boys and lots of neighbors that would stop over and play. In the nearly 30 years we owned that game (thousands of plays), it had no problems at all. Zero - zip. We sold it about a year ago and it was still in really nice condition with just a small amount of paint flaking and the typical kickout hole wear. That's quality!

I just finished repairing a 1961 Show Boat. It was built with quality parts that were solid and dependable. Not many moving parts. Basic technology. Nothing fancy. Solid construction. It will last a long time with proper care.

when they started using the cheap partial board on the back panel of the cabinet is my biggest complaint
all the other things they did to cut costs I can deal with.

and thankfully they switched back to hardwood!

I actually like the '76-'78 builds and find those the easiest to teardown and rebuild. By then, most of the assemblies had really been beefed up and the designs addressed a lot of the chronic fatigue spots. Pop bumper base plates, solid pop bumper yokes, flipper assemblies, easy access drop target assemblies, easy access score reel assemblies, etc. Most everything is faster to take apart and reassemble, and really built solid. Can even get the skin off the coin door and de-dent if needed.

The 60's stuff is OK, but a lot of the parts and assemblies are prone to wear and fatigue, which require more attention and/or replacement. (Thankfully, parts are mostly available!) The bronze-coated parts look cool though.

yes I agree they perfected it just in time for the their demise. they dragged their feet getting into the SS era and it was all down hill for gottlieb

From what I've seen the quality of Gtb cabinets from this era
are the best by far. Sys 1 and 80 games were good too. Compare
these cabinets to any game built after 1987.
Steve

the cabinets were made well in the ss era but the game play of their tables were way behind Williams and bally
the operators were buying more Williams and bally due to they made more money
they did have a few big hits in there but not enough to keep up. they were then bought by Columbia pictures then Mylstar then premier. no one owned it long enough to really care at that point.

Gottlieb was bought by Columbia Pictures which was later bought by Coca-Cola who renamed D. Gottlieb & Co. Mylstar Electronics. Mylstar was then "spun off" to a group of private investors who had to renamed the Company, which they did, to "Premier Technology, the maker of Gottlieb Amusement Games".

Columbia bought them before the SS era started. That happened around the time they went to the deeper cab with the shorter legs, and the bigger front door.

As is typical, the conglomo approach didn't serve Gottlieb well, along with other missteps they made along the way.

My view of the "built like a tank" idea and Gottlieb is, in some ways, it's true, in others, it's not. I've always felt their relays and score motors are much harder to deal with than Bally or Williams. The short throw relays are difficult to adjust. Some think that the Williams longer throw relays are harder to keep in adjustment, but I've never found that to be the cause. I've owned one Bally game for 43 years and I've had to do very few adjustments on it. I really doubt I could keep a Gottlieb running that well for that long.

I think in overall game play, during the EM era they were probably the best, although they made their share of junk, and Bally and Williams had some really good ones too. But in overall quality, I've never felt that Gottlieb had any overwhelming advantage over the other two.

I'm amazed any of them have lasted so long. Doesn't matter who made it, Gottlieb, Williams or Bally, they were all designed for a five year life, and here we are, 40, 50, 60 years on, still playing them. A lot are still in pretty good condition. The real heroes are the Bally bingos, some have a million plays on them, and they still go on. I guess the technical term is 'over engineered'. What I still find hard to understand is how the play fields have lasted. A bit old plywood covered in ink & clear has no right to still be so good after all those years. They are superb examples of US engineering from another era. I'm English, but I have to say, I don't think, if we'd built them, there would be many left.

You can Bank on Bally.

I think they last due to the fact that most people fall asleep halfway through a game due to boredom. This cuts down on wear and tear.

very funny!

The only ones who would talk like this are those that can only repair all Gottlieb "There is no substitute for quality" pins. Well, except for Neptune that is.

It's just because I'm lazy. If I say I only can repair Gottliebs, that just means I get to sit on my ass (a 'la Maytag repairman) and watch the the other guys bust theirs fixing the Bally's. .. and don't get me started on the Williams.

BTW, You are right, that Neptune is so boring and unreliable, that I'm going to put a sticker on it that says "Bally".

In my experience, not at all true. Once you get a Williams or a Bally dialed in, they tend to stay dialed in. Gottliebs can have lots of irritating little issues.

You truthfully want to tell me that things like the AS stepper, Ax/Bx relays, and decagon reels were a better idea?

I'll somewhat buy the idea that Gottlieb game play was better, although the others made some that were the equal of anything Gottlieb came up with. On the whole, I would concede Gottlieb was better.

But when it comes to build quality/ease of repair, I won't.

We'll get you a sticker for the backglass.