Gottlieb World Fair - No power to PlayField - 0-9 unit doesn’t move

(Topic ID: 230581)

Gottlieb World Fair - No power to PlayField - 0-9 unit doesn’t move


By Macca

18 days ago



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  • 29 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by Macca
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There have been 12 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Alternating Relay (resized).jpg
Pinball (resized).png
X Relay - Schematic (resized).png
X Relay (resized).jpg
D Relay (resized).jpg
D Relay - Schematic (resized).png
World Fair Under Playfield Stack (resized).jpg
0-9 Unit Schematic (resized).png
World Fair Ball Trough Latch (resized).jpg
Pinball (resized).png
World Fair Credit Unit (resized).jpg
World Fair Score Motor (resized).jpg

#1 18 days ago

Hello Everyone,

After installing a new three pronged cord I started to work on a Gottlieb World Fair.
Funny, I would hear that sound the pin makes when you turn on the power, now it's just dead quiet till I hit the start relay.

The start button did work. If I remember, I filed a relay switch and now it doesn’t work.

I can manually engage the start relay, the hold relay energizes and the control bank resets.

The main problem is no power to the coils/bumpers/rollovers/slings on the playfield.
The playfield and backbox lights do work.

l did engage a relay and the rollovers were keeping score, but I can’t recreate what I did.

I have the TOP Vol. 1 DVD and apparently, the 0-9 unit on the backbox should “always” be moving.

My unit does not move at all. Can that be the problem?

I cleaned and lubed the rivets and that arm that usually freezes up does move.

The fuses are good, the score reels can reset to zero and I have the schematic.

Silly question: does this pin need 5 balls in the trough to run?

Does the score motor look to be in the right position?

I also included a picture of the credit unit.

Any suggestions what could be wrong?

Thank you...

World Fair Score Motor (resized).jpgWorld Fair Credit Unit (resized).jpg
#2 18 days ago
Quoted from Macca:

does this pin need 5 balls in the trough to run?

Yes. See https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2812&picno=20000

Quoted from Macca:

The start button did work. If I remember, I filed a relay switch and now it doesn’t work.

If the Replay Button doesn't activate the Start (S) relay, inispect and diagnose this circuit with alligator clip jumper wires. Be careful because this circuit runs on full 120 volt line voltage.

Pinball (resized).png
#3 18 days ago

Thank you HowardR,

I have a 5 ball pack that is now in the trough.
The latch that allows the balls to advance opens, but the latch that allows the ball to be sent to the plunger doesn't.
As a result, I can't get the ball on the shooting lane, just to let you know.

I'm very new to EM pinball, so I'm lost on how to diagnose a circuit with alligator clips, but I'll look for a youtube video.

Do you think the 0-9 unit is the reason nothing (aside from lights) is not working on the playfield?

Again, thank you so much for your response.

World Fair Ball Trough Latch (resized).jpg
#4 18 days ago

Does the Replay Button activate the Start (S) relay?

Do these help?
Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

#5 18 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Does the Replay Button activate the Start (S) relay?

No, it initially did, then I did something I think flexstone related and now it doesn't work.
I have to manually engage the S relay to get it going.

Like I stated in my first post, after I plugged in the pin I heard that sound the pin makes when it turns on, now it's just quiet when I plug it in.

I've seen that PDF, I'll take a better look at it tomorrow.

I trying to find some information online about that 0-9 Unit that should be spinning.
It's just a hunch, but that may be the reason for the playfield bumpers, etc...not being active.

Heres the schematic for that 0-9 Unit section, it seems to be powered by the N relay, which I can't seem to find under the playfield.

0-9 Unit Schematic (resized).png
#6 18 days ago
Quoted from Macca:

it seems to be powered by the N relay, which I can't seem to find under the playfield.

The 1 Point (N) relay is probably in the back.

#7 17 days ago

I thought the N relay might be part of this stack.
These are the pop bumper relays with the last one (far right) being the advance unit relay.

The 1 Point (N) relay is on the 4a score motor.
Do you think I should take a flexstone to score motor 4a?

I have noticed a blue spark in the score motor which I believe means a bad contact point.

World Fair Under Playfield Stack (resized).jpg
#8 17 days ago

Pick one symptom and concentrate on that. I like to get a game starting correctly because that gets the rest of the game into the correct state.

#9 17 days ago

I'd like to get power to the coils, bumpers, slings, rollovers on the playfield but being so new to EM pinball repair I'm not sure exactly where to start, or where to look to diagnose the problem.

#10 17 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Pick one symptom and concentrate on that. I like to get a game starting correctly because that gets the rest of the game into the correct state.

Quoted from Macca:

I'd like to get power to the coils, bumpers, slings, rollovers on the playfield

Then get the relays & switches on the schematic at 12I to 13I in the correct state, they are D, X, T and S.

#11 17 days ago

I'll take a look at the schematic when I get home and try to decipher it. I'll use my trusty flextone and hopefully the results will be good.

I want to thank you for all your effort in helping me revive this pin. If you can provide any other support with your knowledge please don't hesitate to post on this thread.

If I make any progress I'll post as well.

#12 17 days ago

You may find this information helpful.

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

#13 17 days ago

Thank you, I'm having the same trouble with score reel switch positions on my Gottlieb Roller Coaster.
I needed to take a break from that pin to take a look at World Fair.

Quoted from HowardR:

Then get the relays & switches on the schematic at 12I to 13I in the correct state, they are D, X, T and S.

Those seem to be the big four relays in an EM pin.
I'll look at the schematic and I'll try to judge (with fingers crossed) how to proceed.
I'm still new to reading schematics, but I'm trying my best to learn.

This is really a great hobby and these machines of the past are pieces of art from their time so I hope I can do my best to give them life.

#14 12 days ago

In taking HowardR's advice, I'm trying to concentrate on one problem at a time.
To me, that's the playfield bumpers, rollovers and slings having no power.
He suggested I look at relays D, X, T, and S.

I wonder if the transformer voltages are off?
Then again, I'm not sure what numbers are needed or how to test them.

D Relay:
With my very basic understanding of the schematic with the machine off and the control bank flipped over I noticed the
D relay has an open switch. According to the schematic, all should be closed.

X Relay:
The schematic says every switch should be open.
The top switch is closed.

I've never adjusted a control bank switch so I'd rather ask than commit to making a mistake.
Should the D (closed) and X (open) bank be adjusted?

D Relay - Schematic (resized).pngD Relay (resized).jpgX Relay - Schematic (resized).pngX Relay (resized).jpg
#15 12 days ago

Each relay's switches should sometimes be open and sometimes closed. Which way depends on what position the relay itself is in.

I don't have one in front of me, but you should be able to gently pull up on 1 to reset a bank relay, gently press on 2 to trip a bank relay, or pull up on 3 to reset all the bank relays.

Pinball (resized).png
#16 12 days ago

I tried 1, 2and 3 with no luck. I still can't get anything on the playfield working, only lights.

Is it the transformer not putting out enough power to the playfield or do you think the score motor is the problem?

#17 12 days ago

If you'd like to try a phone call, send me your phone # in a private message.

#18 12 days ago

Howard,

That’s incredibly nice of you but I don’t want to take away part of your night with my problems.

Thank you so much for the offer. Just looking at this great forum I see your name everywhere.
It shows you’re very giving to the community and that’s fantastic.

Thank you again for your offer.
I’ll have to do more research and try to get some answers.

Take care…

#19 8 days ago

Some really great news tonight: After 20 plus years the playfield came alive tonight like Frankenstein.

I was checking for any hidden tilt switches in the backbox. I didn’t see anything so I decided to manually activate the rollover relays in the control bank and suddenly everything on the playfield worked: Rollovers, bumpers, the center spinner, the slings, flippers, even the 0-9 unit in the backbox.

I activated the “game over” relay, then hit the replay button, the score reset, but the playfield (aside from the lights) still didn’t work. After I manually activated the rollover relays again everything on the playfield was working again.

Any suggestions why?

Aside from that, when the 10 points bumper is hit the “10 points when lit” light comes on and creates a very loud buzz under the middle of the playfield. Does something have to be adjusted or cleaned?

Also, the the plunger still doesn’t raise the ball into the lane. I’m hoping that’s an easy fix.

Just had to share the great news…

#20 8 days ago
Quoted from Macca:

a very loud buzz

Where's the buzz coming from?

#21 8 days ago

It seems like it's coming from underneath the middle of the playfield near the spin unit.
It only happens when the “10 points when lit” light comes on after the 10 point bumper is hit.

#22 8 days ago

Can you find out exactly which coil is buzzing?

#23 8 days ago

Found it!

It's the Alternating Relay.
When I touched the leads the tone of the buzz changed.

Aside from that, the R Hold relay does give off a little buzz as well as the ball advance trough.

Alternating Relay (resized).jpg
#24 7 days ago

It's normal for the Alternating relay to lock on half the time during game play.

#25 7 days ago

Last night I looked at some videos of people playing World Fair. They all had loud buzzing sounds.

I'm assuming it's coming from the alternate relay but one of them mentioned the ball trough also makes a very loud noise till the ball is released.

With regards to the playfield not working at startup I'm going to check the control bank, There's a relay that controls the first five rollovers and a relay that controls rollovers 6 to 10.

I'm guessing that's the reason why the rollovers don't work when the game is first turned on.

Hopefully it just needs to be cleaned to work but I'll have my schematic in hand just to see how it relates to the score motor.

1 week later
#26 12 hours ago
Quoted from Macca:

Also, the the plunger still doesn’t raise the ball into the lane. I’m hoping that’s an easy fix.

Can you show a picture of the plunger (inside of the cabinet) and the related mechanism the plunger should contact to lift a ball?

#27 7 hours ago
Quoted from Macca:

Last night I looked at some videos of people playing World Fair. They all had loud buzzing sounds.
I'm assuming it's coming from the alternate relay but one of them mentioned the ball trough also makes a very loud noise till the ball is released.
With regards to the playfield not working at startup I'm going to check the control bank, There's a relay that controls the first five rollovers and a relay that controls rollovers 6 to 10.
I'm guessing that's the reason why the rollovers don't work when the game is first turned on.
Hopefully it just needs to be cleaned to work but I'll have my schematic in hand just to see how it relates to the score motor.

Also there is contacts on the ball gate that controls pf scoring, ball gate needs to close for some of this to work, this contact can get miss-aligned

#28 7 hours ago
Quoted from RoyF:

Can you show a picture of the plunger (inside of the cabinet) and the related mechanism the plunger should contact to lift a ball?

Hey Roy,

I moved the playfield back and forth and found the sweet spot where the plunger will work.
Unfortunately, every time I raise the playfield I have to fiddle with it.

I don't know why it just doesn't fall into place.

Would you still like to see a picture?

#29 7 hours ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Also there is contacts on the ball gate that controls pf scoring, ball gate needs to close for some of this to work, this contact can get miss-aligned

Hey Pinhead,

When you refer to the "ball gate" do you mean the ball trough?

UPDATE:
I found some time to work on the machine.
I used a flexstone on the control bank, specifically the relays that control rollovers 1-5 and 6-10.

Now, when I turn on the pin (still have to enable start relay) the rollovers,
bumpers, spinner, slings and flippers all work without me enabling
the relays on the control bank.

This was the initial problem with the pin.

I'd like to give the playfield a good cleaning (novus 2) then install the new rubbers.
I feel very positive about this pin after many, many years of doubt.

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