(Topic ID: 162773)

Gottlieb wedgehead cabinet paint color?

By Topcard

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Topcard
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    #1 7 years ago

    So I'm repainting a Centigrade 37 and I'm having a hard time finding the right shade for the cabinet. I want to stick to rattle cans so that limits my choices a little. So far Rustoleum Heirloom White and Krylon Ivory have too much of an almond color. I just picked up some rustoleum Blossom White which seems a little too white. I've done a couple of other wedgeheads in the past but can't seem to find what I used. It may have been rustoleum antique white, but i think they quit making that shade. Any suggestions?

    Thanks

    #2 7 years ago

    Clay Harrell - the master of EM restorations and repair - suggests Krylon Ivory.

    Here's what he says:

    Use Krylon "Antique White" if you are doing a partial cabinet repaint (like the front of the cabinet) to match a yellowed cabinet finish. Works great on Gottlieb wedgeheads. If doing a complete cabinet repaint, Krylon "Ivory" is probably a better choice (it's less yellow looking).

    And here's the link to the whole document:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#repaint

    #3 7 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Clay Harrell - the master of EM restorations and repair - suggests Krylon Ivory.
    Here's what he says:
    Use Krylon "Antique White" if you are doing a partial cabinet repaint (like the front of the cabinet) to match a yellowed cabinet finish. Works great on Gottlieb wedgeheads. If doing a complete cabinet repaint, Krylon "Ivory" is probably a better choice (it's less yellow looking).
    And here's the link to the whole document:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#repaint

    Thanks, but I already tried Krylon Ivory and I can't find the Antique White anymore.

    #4 7 years ago

    Well, in that case I join you in being interested in what others have to say. Because I'll be painting a Jacks Open very soon.

    #5 7 years ago

    You might consider having this moved to the EM section. They know everything about everything over there when it comes to EMs.

    #6 7 years ago

    I was just told that the big boys doing these restorations use heirloom white. Just picked up a can. I'll report back with some pictures as well as posts in my restoration thread. Hang tight, and let me know if you find anything in the meantime.

    2 weeks later
    #7 7 years ago

    I just repainted my centigrade 37. I used rustoleum heirloom white for the base color and montana gold citrus and magenta spray cans for the yellow and pink areas. I think it came out great. You may have seen it at the pintastic show this weekend.

    #8 7 years ago

    Did you use flat or semi-gloss? Or flat for the white and semi for the colors?

    And that was a beautiful Centigrade 37 - I played it and enjoyed the hell out of it!

    Tearing down my Jacks Open this week. I did notice that where the paint is scratched it's MUCH whiter underneath, so I'm thinking the heirloom white is spot on. I'll post A/B pics on my thread and here if I remember.

    #9 7 years ago

    Pretty sure base color, Montana colors, and clearcoat were all satin. I'll double check the cans and post here if they were not satin.

    Forgot to mention I also did a clearcoat over everything using minwax polycrylic via roller.

    #10 7 years ago

    I started with Heirloom white but thought it was a little too almond,so I picked up another rustoleum shade of white to try next week. I wish I took a closer look at your machine at pintastic. There were a bunch of people around it when I went by and I never made it back that way.

    #11 7 years ago

    When I first tried the heirloom I just spayed some in a small area on a piece of cardboard and thought it looked tan-ish as well. But when I spayed it on a larger area it looked better.

    Stuff is cheap so it's worth the time to try a few colors to find the one you like best.

    #12 7 years ago

    I am surely in the minority here, but it has always seemed to me that heirloom white and ivory look too almond and do not represent the original color (if looking to replicate the actual factory color). I have yet to find a white that has the subtle "cream like" color of the original paint. I use white and am happy with the fresh look, but thats just me, I guess.

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    #13 7 years ago

    Before sanding the cabinet of my Jacks Open, I checked on the color so that you could get a definitive answer on your OP. I sprayed some Rustoleum 2x Heirloom White (satin) on a bare piece of wood and let it dry. I then held it up against various spots that had been protected by large parts for nearly 40 years, so there was no fading or discoloration. I took pictures in sunlight and in shade. I think you can see that the match is nearly spot on, so that's the color I'm going with.

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    #14 7 years ago

    I had the guy at the automotive paint shot mix up a color to me that is close to white without being stark white. This guy matches paint for a living and all the people who have seen the completed game in person approved.

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    #15 7 years ago

    That works as well. But who the hell wants to pay for automotive paint on an EM? I barely wanted to pay for it when I did an $8000 game.

    But, uh...that game is beautiful, man.

    #16 7 years ago

    Oh...I also wanted to add that I found it really interesting that depending on the light and viewing angle, the heirloom white sometimes looked more white, and sometimes more almond...just like the original paint did.

    #17 7 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    But who the hell wants to pay for automotive paint on an EM?

    I am stupid that way. Why pay $60 to paint a machine when I can pay $260? That game is getting a new Wade Krause playfield so no expense is spared. Also, running your hand over the nice smooth Atlantis cabinet is something you have to experience to understand.

    Oh well, my next game to paint is a Paragon and I am using all rattle cans for that. I plan on doing a Quick Draw in the near future and I have enough of the base white to do that one with automotive paint too.

    #18 7 years ago

    The Atlantis looks great. I think I've found the right shade with Ben Moore "Easter Lily". I wanted to stick with rattle cans, but I can't find the right shade so I'm going to buy an HPLV gun tomorrow.

    I can tell you that the Heirloom white is definitely on the tan side. I have a Jack's Open and it is substantially whiter than the Heirloom white. I sprayed my whole cabinet with it and then wasn't happy with it and tried Krylon Ivory which was even darker. One good thing came of it; I found that Krylon Ivory is the perfect color for an ElDorado or Gold Strike. I did one once white heirloom white and ironically, it was too white for that particular game.

    #19 7 years ago
    Quoted from Topcard:

    I can tell you that the Heirloom white is definitely on the tan side. I have a Jack's Open and it is substantially whiter than the Heirloom white. I sprayed my whole cabinet with it and then wasn't happy with it and tried Krylon Ivory which was even darker. One good thing came of it; I found that Krylon Ivory is the perfect color for an ElDorado or Gold Strike. I did one once white heirloom white and ironically, it was too white for that particular game.

    I'm glad that someone else sees these colors as I do. It is interesting that each of these Gottlieb games have somewhat different base colors. I will certainly have to keep an eye out for these color differences in future restorations. I just assumed that all games from this era would have pretty much the same base color...

    #20 7 years ago

    I painted my Royal Flush with this.....
    See the arrow of actual color, not the silly pure white cap.

    Try it but remember, do some tests with clearcoats, some go yellows, depends on how many coats.

    I screwed up with too many clearcoats, big different to without it......I think I'll start all over again.....with same Blossom White and different clearcoat!
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    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shiny_balls:

    I painted my Royal Flush with this.....
    See the arrow of actual color, not the silly pure white cap.
    Try it but remember, do some tests with clearcoats, some go yellows, depends on how many coats.
    I screwed up with too many clearcoats, big different to without it......I think I'll start all over again.....with same Blossom White and different clearcoat!

    Do you have any photos of the machine with that white before you clear coated it? I bought that color too, but thought it was a little too stark white for my C37. I'm thinking it would work well though for my Joker Poker which has a whiter base.

    #22 7 years ago
    Quoted from Topcard:

    Do you have any photos of the machine with that white before you clear coated it? I bought that color too, but thought it was a little too stark white for my C37. I'm thinking it would work well though for my Joker Poker which has a whiter base.

    I did 1 or 2 clearcoats to seal the water based splatters before stencil.
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    I painted on a sheet metal yesterday......
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    Blossom White is little darker than pure white.
    Look at my original, see the 40 years old yellow peeled off? is that clearcoat from the factory? or from the smoke?
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    I believe they did clearcoats after stencil works, look at under side rail....
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    Some people wanted them looks old but I choose my machine looks as it just rolled out from the factory.....I believe Blossom White is perfectly matched as they painted the cabinets at the factory.
    I really don't know about the C37 or Joker Poker, I have a Super Spin with much fewer plays and it looks the same original white to my Royal Flush. Whites changed over the years....depend on locations.

    A picture of fresh clearcoats with a HVLP spray gun from last September....I'm not sure how many coats...I think 5-6 coats total.
    See the difference with white bed sheet?
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    Nine months later....sheet metal vs. 9 months old clearcoats.....with different light angles.... ugh! it changed itself!! More yellow.
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    I have already put this in a trash bin!!!!
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    #23 7 years ago

    I used heirloom white for my Atlantis as the base coat with black speckles.

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    #24 7 years ago

    Nice, do you clearcoats or not? what kind?
    I don't like raised paint edge lines.... I sanded lightly around paint edges between the coats.

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shiny_balls:

    I did 1 or 2 clearcoats to seal the water based splatters before stencil.

    I painted on a sheet metal yesterday......

    Blossom White is little darker than pure white.
    Look at my original, see the 40 years old yellow peeled off? is that clearcoat from the factory? or from the smoke?

    I believe they did clearcoats after stencil works, look at under side rail....

    Some people wanted them looks old but I choose my machine looks as it just rolled out from the factory.....I believe Blossom White is perfectly matched as they painted the cabinets at the factory.
    I really don't know about the C37 or Joker Poker, I have a Super Spin with much fewer plays and it looks the same original white to my Royal Flush. Whites changed over the years....depend on locations.
    A picture of fresh clearcoats with a HVLP spray gun from last September....I'm not sure how many coats...I think 5-6 coats total.
    See the difference with white bed sheet?

    Nine months later....sheet metal vs. 9 months old clearcoats.....with different light angles.... ugh! it changed itself!! More yellow.

    I have already put this in a trash bin!!!!

    Wow, that had to be absolutely heartbreaking. To have it come out so beautiful only to see it yellow....I had heard that Varathane would yellow and that's why it shouldn't be used on a playfield. I had no idea it would happen so fast.

    I would say that was smoke stains on your game. Usually some mean green will tell you quickly. That stuff cuts right into the smoke stains but does very little to the clear coat. I have a Royal Flush at home that is still aimost as white as the day it came out of the factory so I would say it was not prone to yellowing. I see the exact opposite on some wedgeheads like Sky Jump, where they have almost always had their clearcoats turn yellow.

    I think the Blossom White is a good shade for the Royal flush, but still a little too white for some wedgeheads like C37. Below is a picture I took of the different colors. The cabinet is painted Krylon Ivory which I will repaint. Next is the Blossom White, then Heirloom white, then a Ben Moore Shade called Easter Lily that I will probably use. The Heirloom White is darker than it looks in the photo.

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    #26 7 years ago

    Thanks Topcard, nobody's perfect.....lessons learned
    I still have the homemade stencils.... one day, I'll try again with flat paints for stencils and less coats of a better semi gloss crystal clear....I'm sure 2nd attempt will be much better than first one.

    I'm looking at the picture of my very first Gottlieb EM cabinet and thoughts about it a lot....tell you what....I'm pretty sure they used flat paints for base and stencils because it was easy to spray, thinner, lightweight, less messy and dry fast....after the stencil, a final coat of a more glosser clear finish to seal it.
    Just one coat of oil based clear turns more yellow as it ages, even more with smokers
    IMG_2131_(resized).JPGIMG_2131_(resized).JPG

    Flat paints are very thin, you almost couldn't feel the raised stencil paint edges.
    semi gloss is thicker, gloss is more thicker.
    I painted red lobster gloss and flat black for stencils, I felt the difference between gloss and flat raised edges, I had to sand lightly between the clear coats to removed blurred edges....on the red ones, not black....I can see why they don't want to sand it....cost money!!

    A flyer brochure for you....like I said, some people go with old looks and some go with new.
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    #27 7 years ago

    Colors are a funny thing. The real colors are much different than the flyer, at least on mine.

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    #28 7 years ago

    Trying to get them just right.

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    #29 7 years ago
    Quoted from Topcard:

    Colors are a funny thing. The real colors are much different than the flyer, at least on mine.

    I wouldn't trust the flyer for an accurate color match. Who knows how accurate the colors were when the flyer was first printed. ICC color profiles which are comon now didn't exist in 1977. Even if you assumed the flyer colors were printed accuratley in 1977, keep in mind that flyer colors will fade as well after 39 years.

    #30 7 years ago

    Yes, but it's easy to see the difference between the white cabinet and pure white top playfield arch/apron.
    Keep in mind, some sides have different shades from photography lighting.

    #31 7 years ago

    For the white yes, you can see a diff between cabinet base color and apron white using flyer.

    I just wanted to warn people to be careful using flyers for accurate color references for the other colors.

    #32 7 years ago

    I just completed a repaint myself. Used Montana Black: Pink Panther, Montana Black: "Yellow", and Rustoleum Heirloom White as the base.

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    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinhead52:

    I just completed a repaint myself. Used Montana Black: Pink Panther, Montana Black: "Yellow", and Rustoleum Heirloom White as the base.

    Very nice. I did my base cabinet color today with the blossom white that Shiny Balls recommended. I was going to do a different shade but failed miserably using the preval air gun system (i guess the paint was too thick). At any rate, I think it will work pretty well and then I'm going to use the Montana kicking yellow and the Good times shade for the Magenta.They're a little different than the ones you chose, but I think they both work. Mine will look a little more like a brand new game, while your's looks more like an original game in excellent shape.

    Below is a photo I took when i had to remove some paint off the front and redo due to runs. I post it because the color underneath is Krylon Ivory and it really shows how almond that shade is. Perfect though for ElDorado or GoldStrike.

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    #34 7 years ago

    Preval needs really thin paint. REALLY thin. It is also not a good solution for painting large areas and multiple coats such as the base coat on the cab. I use them with automotive paint, but only with the stencil colors because they cover a small area and only one coat. For the base coat you really need an HVLP or just stick to rattle cans.

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Preval needs really thin paint. REALLY thin. It is also not a good solution for painting large areas and multiple coats such as the base coat on the cab. I use them with automotive paint, but only with the stencil colors because they cover a small area and only one coat. For the base coat you really need an HVLP or just stick to rattle cans.

    Yeah, I was going to go the HPLV route and then realized my compressor wasn't large enough to perform adequately-. I saw the Preval system in the store and bought it on impulse. I always wanted to try it out, but it was a lesson learned. As you said, it would be good for hard to find stencil colors where a custom match is required.

    Quoted from gearheaddropping:I used heirloom white for my Atlantis as the base coat with black speckles.

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from gearheaddropping:

    I used heirloom white for my Atlantis as the base coat with black speckles.

    It looks very nice. Are you happy you chose the Heirloom White?

    #37 7 years ago
    Quoted from Topcard:

    It looks very nice. Are you happy you chose the Heirloom White?

    I am! I'll post pictures when it's all done.

    #38 7 years ago

    I looked at the Home Depot website, It says that Varathane Polyurethane has a light amber tone when dry...... but didn't say nothing on the can label.....grrrrr.
    I blamed the raised stencil paint edges that made me paint several coats to knock down the edges.....
    Maybe just one coat of Varathane and wait 6 months for a very light golden tone to appear?....just like the old Gottlieb machines....but the question is.....is one coat enough? lol

    Maybe I'll paint a few brands of clearcoats on metal samples and leave in garage for 6 months?

    2PAC clearcoats? maybe but I couldn't find semi gloss....no rattle cans for me on final coats.

    #39 7 years ago
    Quoted from Topcard:

    It looks very nice. Are you happy you chose the Heirloom White?

    Yes, happy with the basecoat. I could have done a better job on the green match, but its all a learning experience.

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shiny_balls:

    I looked at the Home Depot website, It says that Varathane Polyurethane has a light amber tone when dry...... but didn't say nothing on the can label.....grrrrr.
    I blamed the raised stencil paint edges that made me paint several coats to knock down the edges.....
    Maybe just one coat of Varathane and wait 6 months for a very light golden tone to appear?....just like the old Gottlieb machines....but the question is.....is one coat enough? lol
    Maybe I'll paint a few brands of clearcoats on metal samples and leave in garage for 6 months?
    2PAC clearcoats? maybe but I couldn't find semi gloss....no rattle cans for me on final coats.

    It's hard to tell in your pics but I bet it looks alright. Like a nice 40 year old game might.

    #41 7 years ago

    Minwax Polycrylic is awesome to work with and dries clear with no yellow tone...

    #42 7 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Minwax Polycrylic is awesome to work with and dries clear with no yellow tone...

    I think I saw in a playfield restoration thread (Vid's?) that it will yellow with time, though.

    #43 7 years ago

    I've used Krylon Crystal clear in the past with good results. It supposed to be non yellowing. Below is a machine I did roughly three years ago and it still looks good. Not sure if I did gloss or satin, I seem to have cans of both. I experiment with so many things that if I don't write it down I lose track. That's one of the great things about these threads, they make a great point of reference.

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    #44 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shiny_balls:

    Thanks Topcard, nobody's perfect.....lessons learned
    I still have the homemade stencils.... one day, I'll try again with flat paints for stencils and less coats of a better semi gloss crystal clear....I'm sure 2nd attempt will be much better than first one.
    I'm looking at the picture of my very first Gottlieb EM cabinet and thoughts about it a lot....tell you what....I'm pretty sure they used flat paints for base and stencils because it was easy to spray, thinner, lightweight, less messy and dry fast....after the stencil, a final coat of a more glosser clear finish to seal it.
    Just one coat of oil based clear turns more yellow as it ages, even more with smokers

    Flat paints are very thin, you almost couldn't feel the raised stencil paint edges.
    semi gloss is thicker, gloss is more thicker.
    I painted red lobster gloss and flat black for stencils, I felt the difference between gloss and flat raised edges, I had to sand lightly between the clear coats to removed blurred edges....on the red ones, not black....I can see why they don't want to sand it....cost money!!
    A flyer brochure for you....like I said, some people go with old looks and some go with new.

    I had a similar experience with stencils with the Astro I just posted a pick of. I used satin for the base and the orange, but for some reason I could only find the black in gloss. Sure enough, the edges of the gloss black are raised but not the orange. I din't sand it, because i was afraid I would screw up the finish, so I just decided to live with it. It's one of those things the average person wouldn't notice but I always will.

    #45 7 years ago

    Here's my Jacks Open cabinet painted with Heirloom White. It looks plenty white in this picture, but sometimes it has more of an ivory look. It all depends on the lighting. IMO, anything more white would look a little unnatural.

    IMG_2135_(resized).JPGIMG_2135_(resized).JPG

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from gearheaddropping:

    Yes, happy with the basecoat. I could have done a better job on the green match, but its all a learning experience.

    Still looks good. That green is tough to match. I'm trying to find a little just to use for touch up on my Atlantis. When it comes to touch up, it looks worse than leaving it if you can't match it almost exactly.

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Here's my Jacks Open cabinet painted with Heirloom White. It looks plenty white in this picture, but sometimes it has more of an ivory look. It all depends on the lighting. IMO, anything more white would look a little unnatural.

    Now that drives me nuts. Looking at that photo it looks nice and white, but I had my cabinet done and it seemed to tan so I redid it. Maybe I should never have looked at it outside on a sunny day! I may regret going with the blossom white, we will see, but I've already painted it three times, I'm not doing it again.The funny thing is, I believe the Astro I did I used Heirloom white and was happy with it. Makes me wonder if I got a bad batch this last time.

    #48 7 years ago

    Let me reiterate: I could take a picture through the garage door while standing in the driveway, and it would look more ivory. That's the strange thing about this color - it really looks different in different lighting. But overall, it's not too white, and that's what I like about it. (And I think it'll look more white when the black and white are on there as a contrast.)

    #49 7 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I think I saw in a playfield restoration thread (Vid's?) that it will yellow with time, though.

    That's right buddy, every original Gottlieb machine went yellow a bit!
    Mine went very yellow too fast!! Hehehe

    Here's my plan....

    I think one coat with little yellow tone over the blossom white base (that's what they did at the gottlieb factory) and some non-yellow crystal clear coats to knock down raised stencil paint edges.

    I'll try that on one of samples.

    (For heirloom or other off white, don't use yellow tone clear)

    To avoid too many clearcoats.....I found this Humbrol oil based flat (matt) paints from England for stencil job.... (Haven't try yet, need an airbrush)

    http://www.humbrol.com/us-en/shop/paints/enamel-paints/finish/matt.html?
    108 colors!

    They have thinners to make the paint more thinner.
    http://www.humbrol.com/us-en/shop/coatings-thinners/thinners/enamel-thinners-125ml-bottle.html

    Or maybe createx paints (little thicker)
    I'm good at mix to match.

    That's my plan.

    Not now, I'm focusing at my Williams Fire project.

    #50 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shiny_balls:

    Not now, I'm focusing at my Williams Fire project.

    ...which is freakin' awesome.

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