(Topic ID: 218563)

Gottlieb volley alternating/match relay


By bonzo71

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by bonzo71
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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AS Adjustment.pdf (PDF preview)
0Far-Out-Work-31 (resized).jpg
0Royal-Flush-Work-19 (resized).jpg
Snippet2 (resized).jpg
Snippet1 (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

I’m at a friends house and working on his gtb volley. The match relay is not being activated. Can anyone tell me what activates the coil on the match relay?

#2 1 year ago

Hi. I believe it is the center pop bumper. I will look at the schematic to confirm.

#3 1 year ago

bonzo71

Yes. It is the C relay (Center Pop Bumper) that drives the 00-90 Match relay.

Sorry for the skewed photos taken in haste
Snippet1 (resized).jpgSnippet2 (resized).jpg

#4 1 year ago

There should be a Match in/out in the backbox.

#5 1 year ago

It is the center pop the changes it thanks everyone!!!

#6 1 year ago

Spent over an hour with the relay and could get it to manually advance reliably, but the pop bumper action is to fast for it to work properly. The game would not work because of a stuck drop target switch..found that within 1 minute. OH well.. the game at least works 99% when it was not even playable before I touched it.

#7 1 year ago

Those AS relays have a rotating cam and wiper system that gets dirty and causes the sluggishness. The only fix is to thoroughly clean.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

Those AS relays have a rotating cam and wiper system that gets dirty and causes the sluggishness. The only fix is to thoroughly clean.

Yep! Unplug it from the game via the Jones Plugs, unscrew the switch from the side and remove it, the washer and the "foot" that spins on the wiper board; clean the wiper board with 91% alcohol, then polish with a dab of mother's metal polish on your finger (gently wipe off in circles with a clean rag until the metal shines), then put a THIN smear of Super Lube on it. Clean the little contact "foot" too, then reassemble and do the same on the other side. Check the spring while you're at it to make sure it's not mangled, missing or the wrong spring.

I usually clean the plastic gear mechanism with 91% alcohol and scrub it gently with a toothbrush. Then make sure the switch is clean and functioning properly. Reassemble and usually they work MUCH MUCH better.

Probably takes 10-15 minutes total if you know your way around one of these AS relays.

#9 1 year ago

I hate the AS relays that Gottlieb went to in the 70's, don't think I've ever had a game come to me where it worked properly, and even after cleaning they can be very finicky to get adjusted. Just did 2 of them on a Pin-Up and C37, would be very happy to never touch another one, but I know that won't happen.

#10 1 year ago

Hi bonzo71 +
I do not say "there is a fault in Your friends 'Volley' ". I say "maybe in Your friends 'Volley' the Self-Hold-Circuitry on the Pop-Bumper-RELAY is no good - not working (?)".

I do not have the schematics "Volley" - I show it on "Royal Flush" --- see the JPG. In a fully running Royal Flush happens: The ball rolls to the bumper and closes "my brown-1 Switch" - the relay (brown 2) actuates - it closes several switches (3a, 3b, 3c) --- "3a" makes the "4a" pull - "3b" makes the "4b" pull - AND THE closing of ("3c") Self-Hold-Switch makes the relay ("Yes, the 2") pulling, pulling, pulling (and therefore closed are 3a, 3b, 3c) UNTIL the plunger on the Pop-Bumper at the end of its travel opens "5" --- end of feature, everything quits pulling.

Now comes the "maybe fault": When "3c" is faulty always open or when "5" is faulty always open or when a connecting wire has broken-off in this circuitry: The period of time of "pulling 4b" is (grace shot of the ball) shorter with the fault in the pin (compared with an fully running pin (grace shot)).

Want to do a test to check for "the maybe fault is in the pin" to prove right or to prove wrong (?):
Locate the Pop-Bumper-RELAY - locate its Self-Hold-Switch (3c) - easy to be found: A short wire runs from one side of the Pop-Bumper-RELAY to "Switch mounted on the Pop-Bumper-RELAY" - THIS IS THE (3c) SWITCH. Sneak-in a stripe of paper inbetween the contact-point / blades to make this Switch ALWAYS open (Yes we sneak-in a fault) --- then play the pin - watch and feel the action on the Pop-Bumper. After this test You may say AAA: I see and feel the Pop-Bumper acts different (with the sneaked-in stripe of paper) --- or You may say BBB: The Pop-Bumper acts exactly the same as before.

When You say "AAA": The maybe fault is NOT in the pin --- when You say "BBB": Chances are that the (maybe) fault is in the pin (((manipulating an already broken connection to "broken" has no effect - broken is broken))). Greetings Rolf

0Royal-Flush-Work-19 (resized).jpg
#11 1 year ago

Rolf,
My friend lives about 60 miles away and I might not be back there for a while. I checked the center pop bumper relay and the pop bumper end of stroke switch and found no faults. The pop bumpers on this game were very strong and properly adjusted.

I removed the ax relay wipers and sanded away and dirt then cleaned the surface with alcohol. then applied a layer of dielectric grease on the pcb. I adjusted the make break switch on the cam so that there was minimal effort to make the switch function. I cleaned the gears with a cotton swab and alcohol. Short of taking it completely apart, I did everything I could. I got it to the point where it would manually advance, but the short duration of the pop bumper just wasn’t enough to keep it moving.
This game wasn’t’ working at all when I arrive because of a stuck drop target switch that I immediately found. At least the game is playable.

#12 1 year ago

Hi bonzo71
please write about "the Alternating-Relay in Volley does ..." - using this picture http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2743&picno=47939 .

The "maybe fault" in Your friends pin made me to study the schematics on my "Far Out". Far Out also has an Alternating-Relay (named A-Relay) - see http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=823&picno=52839 - The A-Alternating-Relay turns-on / turns-off the bumper-lights and changes lights / making points on many places on the playfield. There is a Mini-Stepper (named I-Advance-Unit-Relay) - in positions 0, 2, 4, 6, 8 the A-Alternating-Relay is made pulling --- in positions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 the A-Alternating-Relay is made non-pulling. The I-Stepper is actuated when the ball hits the left or the right bumper. Also the I-Stepper is actuated when the ball rolls over the Rollover-Button (a bit below the Center Bumper in the ipdb-picture).

The tests giving result either "AAA" or "BBB" (see post-10) actually are tests "bulls-eye hit" - "hit" - "grace shot" - "very-grace shot" - "very-very-grace shot" - "very-very-very-grace shot" - different lengths in time for a switch to be closed - closed for to let current flow to "Coil on Mini-Stepper".
In my "Far Out" I can do these different (length of time) hits by pressing the Rollover-Button for long or for short or for very-short.

In Your friends pin You can do such testing (different length of time) by using two clipped-on Jumper-Wires --- see the JPG in post-10 - see "my brown 3b - 'B'-Switch" - a Jumper-Wire clipped-on on the left solder-lug of the switch and another Jumper-Wire clipped-on on the right solder-lug of the switch --- THEN You hold together the other ends of the two Jumper-Wires --- long in time or medium or short in time - WHAT is the Mini-Stepper doing ?

(words from a dix) "riddle / conundrum / puzzle / brain twister": The reason why Gottlieb used the wiring "my brown 'choosen solution' " and not the wiring "second way of wiring" --- the reason is ...
Greetings Rolf

0Far-Out-Work-31 (resized).jpg
#13 1 year ago

Maybe this can help

AS Adjustment.pdf
#14 1 year ago

That is a nice diagram of the ax relay. I work with this guy and maybe I can convince him just to let me have the relay for a couple days and tear it down and clean each part. I have some spare ax relay parts at home. I would say the relay works, but is generally sluggish.

When I was testing the relay, I could get it to advance if I manually operated the center pop bumper, but when we tried this with a ball hit the duration of the pop bumper action seemed too fast to allow a solid pull on the relay.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

That is a nice diagram of the ax relay. I work with this guy and maybe I can convince him just to let me have the relay for a couple days and tear it down and clean each part. I have some spare ax relay parts at home. I would say the relay works, but is generally sluggish.
When I was testing the relay, I could get it to advance if I manually operated the center pop bumper, but when we tried this with a ball hit the duration of the pop bumper action seemed too fast to allow a solid pull on the relay.

AS relay, not AX. Just didn’t want anyone reading this to get confused and think this is an AX Relay — it’s not.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

More
AS relay, not AX. Just didn’t want anyone reading this to get confused and think this is an AX Relay — it’s not.

Correct...sorry for any confusion.

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