(Topic ID: 205342)

Gottlieb, Victory, Recent acquisition. Question about battery backup.

By mettyfish

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zimjoe
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    BackupCapa2 (resized).jpg
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    #1 6 years ago

    This is my first post and really glad to be here. I cannot believe the information on this site. Incredible!!!! Recently bought this machine. Works fantastic. I put all leds under the playfield but noticed the battery backup looks to be original. I would think it has been replaced in the past but it is still mounted to the main board. Do I need to change it out with one that is not on the board. Thanks for suggestions.

    #2 6 years ago

    If you have the skills, remove the battery and install NVRam. Once installed, you won't need a battery.

    #3 6 years ago
    Quoted from Billc479:

    If you have the skills, remove the battery and install NVRam. Once installed, you won't need a battery.

    Thanks, Does the NVRam fit right in where the battery goes?

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from mettyfish:

    Thanks, Does the NVRam fit right in where the battery goes?

    It replaces the onboard RAM chip.

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    It replaces the onboard RAM chip.

    Thanks again for the info. But somewhat new to the pinball world. Needing some more details. Pics? Thanks again.

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from mettyfish:

    Thanks again for the info. But somewhat new to the pinball world. Needing some more details. Pics? Thanks again.

    http://www.pinitech.com/products/5101_nvram.php

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from mettyfish:

    This is my first post and really glad to be here...
    ... Do I need to change it out with one that is not on the board. Thanks for suggestions.

    Hello and welcome aboard,

    Yes, even if it seems in good condition, it is imperative to remove the original battery because it can start to leak suddenly, and seriously corrode / damage the CPU board. Everyone will tell you, we must quickly unsold the big black cell, which is quite easy to do with an iron and a pump. The pinball can also work very well without this battery, but of course, the scores will not be kept, nor the setting of thresholds for replays, nor the credits !

    The simplest method is to replace the battery with a super-caps: it is a capacitor of 0.47 F (or more) that is connected in place of the battery. Just need two pieces of wires, and for connecting, the polarity is the same. Simple and very reliable (we use this method for many years, the retention is very long).
    Super CapsSuper CapsThere is some others methods, like use of Alkaline bat. or Lithium, but they require another modification on the CPU board, to avoid to charge them.

    As mentionned by Billc479 and @ForceFlow, the NVRAM is also a good alternative, no more battery required. But, it take place at the location of the 5101 RAM (Z5). Unfortunately, on Gottlieb unmodified boards, this chip is soldered, so you have to desolder it and install a socket. This require some skill and is not recommended for a beginner. But may be, your board is already modified ? Indeed, the RAM chip 5101 is quite fragile and often defective on old boards. It has often been replaced (and not only on Gottlieb boards, but also on other brands) and the new one may be installed on a socket. If this is your case, then the NVRAM could be a good solution, but as the battery is still in place, I believe that you have an unmodified board.

    Another tips for your Victory 80B (that has nothing to do with the battery ! but also a nice improvment) : a Freeplay version of the game PROM is available - for free - at our website.Take a look at : https://www.flipprojets.fr/Proms80B_EN.php
    Note that we only provide the binary files, so you can program the EPROM by yourself (or ask to someone doing for you).

    #8 6 years ago

    I have replaced all my system 80b boards with a lithium coin cell and removing the first resistor then replacing it with a diode so it wont try and charge the battery. Nvram is probably the better solution but I already have all the parts.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from noflip95:

    Hello and welcome aboard,
    Yes, even if it seems in good condition, it is imperative to remove the original battery because it can start to leak suddenly, and seriously corrode / damage the CPU board. Everyone will tell you, we must quickly unsold the big black cell, which is quite easy to do with an iron and a pump. The pinball can also work very well without this battery, but of course, the scores will not be kept, nor the setting of thresholds for replays, nor the credits !
    The simplest method is to replace the battery with a super-caps: it is a capacitor of 0.47 F (or more) that is connected in place of the battery. Just need two pieces of wires, and for connecting, the polarity is the same. Simple and very reliable (we use this method for many years, the retention is very long).
    There is some others methods, like use of Alkaline bat. or Lithium, but they require another modification on the CPU board, to avoid to charge them.
    As mentionned by Billc479 and ForceFlow, the NVRAM is also a good alternative, no more battery required. But, it take place at the location of the 5101 RAM (Z5). Unfortunately, on Gottlieb unmodified boards, this chip is soldered, so you have to desolder it and install a socket. This require some skill and is not recommended for a beginner. But may be, your board is already modified ? Indeed, the RAM chip 5101 is quite fragile and often defective on old boards. It has often been replaced (and not only on Gottlieb boards, but also on other brands) and the new one may be installed on a socket. If this is your case, then the NVRAM could be a good solution, but as the battery is still in place, I believe that you have an unmodified board.
    Another tips for your Victory 80B (that has nothing to do with the battery ! but also a nice improvment) : a Freeplay version of the game PROM is available - for free - at our website.Take a look at : https://www.flipprojets.fr/Proms80B_EN.php
    Note that we only provide the binary files, so you can program the EPROM by yourself (or ask to someone doing for you).

    Love the idea of the capacitor. Thanks for the info. Seems like the easier route to take. Where can I order the cap. from and could you provide a little more detail where to hook it into the board. I do have a solder iron and sucker. Thx so much!!! Mark

    #10 6 years ago

    Yes, mounting a capacitor is the easier way.

    Unsold the battery : you will notice, that it is hold in place by 4 pins (one for +, one for -, and two not connected).
    Look at my picture : you can easily identify the + (printed on the board) and the - (on the opposite side).
    Simply connect the capacitor with two wires (one red, one black) to the + and -.

    The polarity is indicated on the capacitor (usualy, the - is printed on a band). Connect the + on + and the - on -.

    To fix the capacitor, we use hot glue (the capacitor is mounted with pins on top).
    Once solded, we add some hot glue on pins, to isolate it.

    No need to modify the board (no resistor or diode to remove).

    Super caps can be found at any local electronic reseller, or even at pinball shop, or ebay. This is a very common component.
    The capacity doesn't really care : 0.47F is very common, but if you found 1F or 2F it's also OK.
    Avoid the models with lower capacity like 0.1F or 0.22F.
    The super caps are usually at 5.5 volts. Don't confuse with a common capacitor of 0.47 µF (that are usually, 16 or 25 volts).
    Super caps are also known as "backup capacitors".

    The retention is very long : with a 0.47F, we had a CPU board left alone in our workshop for more than a year, and the scores were still saved after this time.
    Also, take care of the pins : choose a round model, with radial pins like this one:
    2017-12-19_17h12_09 (resized).png2017-12-19_17h12_09 (resized).png
    As you can notice, here, the "-" is on the right (pin identified by a black band with "-" printed).

    #11 6 years ago

    I put a capacitor in my Volcano and have no problems at all.

    #12 6 years ago

    Great Plains Electronics
    Ed is great to deal with.

    #13 6 years ago

    I've got a dozen or more brand new Panasonic brand super caps rated 1.5F 5v. Part Number: EECF5R5U155

    Purchased for a project long ago and I'll not be using them.

    I'll do 4x of them for $12.50 shipped on the remainder of what I have. Can do a little better on price if ordering more than 4x or if someone wants to take them all.

    PM if interested.

    #14 6 years ago

    Thx a bunch. I understand everything but it says to "fix the capacitor". Does that mean glue it to the board? And "also take care of the pins". Are you meaning polarity? I think I get the rest. And are you soldering the wires off the capacitor to the original plus and minus holes the battery was soldered into. Thx a bunch. Mark

    #15 6 years ago

    If you or anyone out there needs a NOS playfield for this game I have one for sale.
    Thanks,
    John

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    If you or anyone out there needs a NOS playfield for this game I have one for sale.
    Thanks,
    John

    Thx for the offer but my playfield is in awesome condition. Showing almost no wear. I do need lower right plastic as mine has a chunk missing as the ball shooter probably knocked the chunk out. LOL

    #17 6 years ago
    Quoted from mettyfish:

    Thx a bunch. I understand everything but it says to "fix the capacitor". Does that mean glue it to the board? And "also take care of the pins". Are you meaning polarity?

    Yes, we glue the capacitor on the board. We use hot glue because it can be removed if needed. You can also use silicon or double-face foam tape, but never try super glue (cyanoacrylate) ! We also add a drop of glue on the pins, to isolate them.
    BackupCapa1 (resized).jpgBackupCapa1 (resized).jpg
    This is a backup capacitor mounted in one of ours boards, but note that this one is special : because we add a switch to cut-off the power (use for experimental), on a "normal" board, you don't need it.

    About the pins : polarity of course, but also the type of package. On market, you can found many models of backup capacitors, but some have pinout that are not suitable, like this:
    BackupCapa2 (resized).jpgBackupCapa2 (resized).jpg

    Using a standard "radial" is better and avoid risk of short-circuit, look for models like that:
    BackupCapa3 (resized).jpgBackupCapa3 (resized).jpg

    #18 6 years ago

    Thx, I understand clearly now. I will do this process in the next couple of days. Again thanks for being so helpful. Mark

    #19 6 years ago

    I have super caps on all my 80b games. For Genesis and Victory, I cut a prototyping board in half and mounted the super cap on a daughter board. It let me leave the main board unaltered and looks cool. The legs are just fat leads off some big resistors I had.

    I can't take credit for the idea. toddtuckey uses daughter boards for adding coin batteries to boards the same way. He doesn't have Gottlieb, but he has a few others https://www.tntamusementsstore.com/wptnt/product/franks-famous-battery-board/

    IMG_20161018_213945069 (resized).jpgIMG_20161018_213945069 (resized).jpg

    #20 6 years ago

    That looks cool. Great idea. Are the legs the positive and negative as I don't see any wires. How do you like your Victory?

    #21 6 years ago
    Quoted from mettyfish:

    That looks cool. Great idea. Are the legs the positive and negative as I don't see any wires

    I just used wire to create traces on the back. It's pretty simple. Those legs are just stiff leads I cut off a big resistor. It doesn't move or wiggle. They are just in the positive and negative battery positions.

    The super cap doesn't need a blocking diode. You could do the same with a coin battery holder and put a diode right on the board. I'm pretty sure Mr. Tuckey's board is a similar setup, but in a more complete and attractive package. I have a few Bally boards that I just cut the batteries off of. I want to order one of his boards and try it out. They do look nicer than my homemade one.

    Quoted from mettyfish:

    How do you like your Victory?

    I do like it. I have a few NOS ramps and a NOS Vitrigraphed playfield that I have not swapped in yet. I've chased down all the electrical issues and it plays well. I played it a bunch on Pinball Arcade before getting one.

    All that said, I am dangerously overfull and it may be shortlisted for sale.

    #22 6 years ago

    Very cool. I bought mine and have been lucky so far it has had no electrical issues. I did all LEDs under the playfield. Really made it look nice. My playfield is in awesome condition as well. Just need to get the battery off of the board. I will get my capacitor tomorrow and get it done. My high score so far is 25 million. Thx for the capacitor info. Mark

    #23 6 years ago

    Fyi, you will loose that 25,000,000 high score when you pull the old battery. So, you will just have to do it all over again!

    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Fyi, you will loose that 25,000,000 high score when you pull the old battery. So, you will just have to do it all over again!

    I was playing a bunch of games with the glass off to check switches and visually inspect the game with the ball rolling around. I left it alone with my 10 year old and came back to a 53mil high score. I don't think he even knew how the scoring worked or it would have been much higher.

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