(Topic ID: 205779)

Solved: Gottlieb Top Score (300): Tech help: game won't start

By kermit24

6 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by kermit24
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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TopScore1 (resized).JPG
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#1 6 years ago

Hi All,

I just picked up a Top Score (Gottlieb, two player, 1975) EM. I am trying to learn about EMs, but I am still very much a newbie when it comes to repairing them. I have cleaned the contacts on all the plugs for the Jones connectors. I have attempted to clean all the contacts on the player advance in the backbox, and other general tip stuff.

Status:
Inserting coins will add credits
Start button DOES NOT start a game
The start relay (in the cab) does go through the reset sequence and kicks the ball into the shooter lane
Most switches, flippers, or slings do not work.
The two kickout holes do fire
Draining the ball doesn't advance the ball in play

Any tips on what my next step should be? I am trying to do this myself (with a little Pinside push )

Thanks!

IMG_7672 (resized).JPGIMG_7672 (resized).JPG

#2 6 years ago

Check your AX relay. These can be a mite tricky, esp. the make/break switches, but it should have a nice snap when latched/unlatched. There may be a m/b on DX to check, too.

And do you have a schematic you can post? That always helps.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check your AX relay. These can be a mite tricky, esp. the make/break switches, but it should have a nice snap when latched/unlatched. There may be a m/b on DX to check, too.
And do you have a schematic you can post? That always helps.

Thanks! The AX relay did need to be ajusted. Now when I start a game from the S relay (start button still doesn’t work) I have the flippers and all the switches work. The DX seems ok, but doesn’t do anything for some reason. I have no chimes also if that matters.

Also,

I need to manually reset the AX relay or the score motor will spin continuously.

Video of both relays:

#4 6 years ago

Found the schematic.

Top Score schematic (resized).jpgTop Score schematic (resized).jpg

#5 6 years ago

Also couple of important things in the manual.

Screen Shot 2017-12-23 at 12.19.15 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2017-12-23 at 12.19.15 PM (resized).png

Screen Shot 2017-12-23 at 12.18.46 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2017-12-23 at 12.18.46 PM (resized).png

#6 6 years ago

Run thru the operating instructions.

#7 6 years ago

I would focus first on getting the startup sequence and reset cycle working correctly before worrying about the playfield issues (those are relatively easy to diagnose once the game resets OK).

Top Tip don't go cleaning all the contacts in the game to try and fix one issue - I guarantee you will make things worse. With careful, thoughtful troubleshooting it should be possible to identify the contact that needs attention.

Quoted from kermit24:

Hi All,
Status:
Inserting coins will add credits

This proves that the highlighted path below works

TopScore1 (resized).JPGTopScore1 (resized).JPG

Quoted from kermit24:

Hi All,
Status:
Start button DOES NOT start a game

When you press the start button the V relay should operate first which then operates the S relay. Check if V relay operates when you press the start button (assuming you have credits).

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from woz:

When you press the start button the V relay should operate first which then operates the S relay. Check if V relay operates when you press the start button (assuming you have credits).

The V relay does not operate. Hmmmm.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

The V relay does not operate

In that case diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#10 6 years ago

So there is a blade missing from the player one tens score reel. Could that be causing the related issue?

961BFFB3-B0F0-4987-8F8C-832A3BF4394E (resized).jpeg961BFFB3-B0F0-4987-8F8C-832A3BF4394E (resized).jpeg

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

So there is a blade missing from the player one tens score reel. Could that be causing the related issue?

That might be related to eventually completing the startup sequence, and you're going to need to fix it in any case. But probably not related to the Replay Button (V) relay not operating.

Quoted from HowardR:

In that case diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

In that case diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Sorry when you say diagnose the circuit, do I bypass one switch at a time?

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Sorry when you say diagnose the circuit, do I bypass one switch at a time?

Here are a couple articles on how to use Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf

#14 6 years ago

Hi kermit24
on every relay we can "cheat a bit" - we wear rubber gloves or we use an wooden stick -Safety Reasons, current can kill us --- we may want to simulate " THIS coil gets current and so the relay pulls-in" - well, we manually press the armature on the relay - then let go. So - what happens when You manually activate the V-Replay-Button-Relay ?

In HowardR 's JPG in post-9 I see a "Switch on U-First-Ball-Relay" - drawn open. I also see a switch on "CX-2nd-Player-Relay" - drawn closed.
When You toggle-on the pin - DOES immediately the U-Relay pull-in and STAY pulling ?
When You toggle-on the pin - DOES the Q-Game-Over-Relay pull-in and STAY pulling ?
When You toggle-on the pin - do You see in the backglass "TWO players can play" lighted ?
Greetings Rolf

#15 6 years ago

Guys,

Thanks for the help! It was a switch that needed to be adjusted on the replay counter in the backbox. One wasn’t closing. I am up and running now!

The only thing that doesn’t happen is the lights below the spinner when the spinner spins and thus the spinner doesn’t advance bonus. The spinner just scores.

Thought on that one?

EDIT: I figured it out. The relay needed to be adjusted.

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