(Topic ID: 205267)

Gottlieb Top Score ball return , bonus kickout fail

By pinball711

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

So I have a real nice Top Score that has been in the family for many years and has been working reliably for at least 12 years at our vacation home. has 64,000 plays on it and is in real good condition. Now the problem... Game turns on, starts, resets score reels, sounds good, but fails to shoot ball into shooter lane. I removed glass and shot ball into play manually, and game seems to play fine except the "1000 and scores bonus"(red hole) kicker does not work. The back box animation works. At start up, the O relay does not function ( I think it's supposed to) The ball home switch is working, I tried holding in the "O" relay during start and nothing. From what I can tell, all seems to work but those 2 things. I went through the entire game and cleaned all contacts with a flexstone and checked that all blade switches are intact and adjusted. Checked for broken wires also. But with all that is going on in these things, I'm sure I could have missed something. Please help. Regards, Brian

#2 6 years ago

When the machine resets, does the reset process immediately stop after the score reels reset to zero? Of does the score motor continue to run after the score reels reset? From your description, it sounds like the machine isn't recognizing there is a ball in the outhole. Do you have a schematic for the machine? You would want to look at the circuit that contains the outhole solenoid (ball return solenoid). You'll need to determine what switches send power to the outhole solenoid. O relay switch is part of the outhole solenoid circuit. There is also a score motor switch in this circuit. Also, check relays Q, AX and A that send power to the O relay coil. We'll need to determine which score motor switches send power within these circuits. Similar Gottlieb machines use score motor switch 1C for the O relay coil and score motor switch 4C for the outhole solenoid...

#3 6 years ago

Thank you for responding,. So when I press the start button The game seems to reset normally. With the score reels going through the reset cycle and the motor in the cabinet stops shortly after the score reels reset, maybe a third of a turn? Just going on what I remember and what sounds normal. Only thing missing is the sound of the ball kicking out. Yes I have the schematic, and it looks like it does travel through a number of switches that complete the circuit. i feel i'm getting close to the issue, and just missing the next step. with the red hole kicker not working, it should be a common problem i'm thinking. I did take a look at the motor Switches and all seems good. Also , after pressing start and game resets, if I manually close the O relay the motor cycles but the ball return solenoid don't fire...Should it?

#4 6 years ago

I believe the outhole solenoid and playfield hole kicker solenoid share the same circuit. Before the circuit branches off, there is a score motor switch that sends power to both of these solenoids. Look at the outhole solenoid (ball return solenoid) on the schematic and work back through the circuit to see what score motor switch is in the circuit. When you have determined the score motor switch in the circuit, find the switch on the score motor and thoroughly clean the switch. Check any other switches down the line from the score motor switch, and make sure the switches are clean and adjusted properly... If this doesn't solve the issue, then check the circuit that contains the O relay coil...

#5 6 years ago

So the schematic shows ball return, motor switch 4C, and red hole kicker, motor switch as 1B. I'm a little confused as how to determine the order of switch stacks on the motor (A,B,C,etc.) but the sections are clearly labeled (1,2,3,4) so I get that. I basically pulled the motor unit free from its mount and closely examined the action of all switches and flexstoned them all and reexamined them for what I feel is good compression/action. also checked all wires intact and not shorting to one another. it is rather difficult going by wire colors as they seem to get really faded after so many years. I also pulled all connectors in and out a few times throughout the game to insure good contact. Switches in the BX relay and O relay are all good. With the playfield up and holding down the ball switch, I press start, the game resets but I the O relay never actuates. I'll check the O relay circuit next (it looks like many switches in line here). Any further thoughts as I proceed? Thanks for being patient.

#6 6 years ago

Lettering starts at the bottom of the score motor switches, but I don't think it's there. Check the M/B on the AX; it should have a nice snap when adjusted correctly.

#7 6 years ago

Not sure what "M/B" on the AX means, but I took a good look at the AX relay and seems all good.
I went through the O relay circuit (includes relays;Q,AX,K,E,I,EE) rechecked contacts and compression.
Now the game has a different problem.
I start game, it resets, but the motor never stops until I kick the ball out manually. then I can play the game like normal. And now the red kickout hole solenoid works! But when the ball drains the motor will continue to run again, and ball does not kick out. I removed a wire off the kick out coil and it measures 2.9 ohms is this correct?

#8 6 years ago

M/B is a make/break sw. Read down to "Schematic Markings" here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

How does the DX relay look, for the new problem?

#9 6 years ago

I seem to recall that the backglass balls all being collected allows the outhole process to continue.

#10 6 years ago

YES! It is all working! The last fix was a switch on the BX relay in line with the kicker circuit. It looked like was making good contact but the ohm meter said otherwise. Tweeked a little more compression on it, and it's all working!
Thank You all! My Aunts Grandkids will be playing Pinball for Christmas!

#11 6 years ago

You can identify the score motor switches by their wire colors listed on the schematic...

It's great you found the problem!

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