(Topic ID: 293688)

Gottlieb Target Alpha FS Relay - alternating lane lights.

By WolfWeb

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by paulace
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

FS relay diagram (resized).JPG
20210519_124216 (resized).jpg
#1 2 years ago

* FIXED! (see below for details) The 500 point rollover lanes that change to 5000 when lit are not working properly. The lane lights are not alternating. AFter a google I took out the FS relay and cleaned it as it was sticking and now it's working when I carefully step through.

And when in the machine I can carefully step it and the lane lights alternate as they should.

However, when playing the game, the same 5000 light on the rollover flickers then comes on again, the other never lights up.

I think its because it jumps exactly two teeth and moves the cam twice so the switches remain in the same state. I think that because I can do that if I flick the mechanism rather than carefully step it through.

What can I adjust to try and stop that, any ideas? I've only got an EM machine a few weeks ago so I don't know much about it all but I'm trying.

20210519_124216 (resized).jpg20210519_124216 (resized).jpg

#3 2 years ago

Is that spring attached to the armature plate right? It looks like it's pulled pretty tight....

#4 2 years ago

Thanks HowardR , I would like to alter the drive pawl tension on the rachet. The manual says:

"Alter tension by forming flat spring"

Can you tell me what than means? I'm not sure what "forming" means.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from paulace:

Is that spring attached to the armature plate right? It looks like it's pulled pretty tight....

Thanks paulace the spring does seem like its been cut down, I've ordered some new parts from PBR including the spring.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from WolfWeb:

Thanks HowardR , I would like to alter the drive pawl tension on the rachet. The manual says:
"Alter tension by forming flat spring"
Can you tell me what than means? I'm not sure what "forming" means.

I don't have one in front of me, but I think you have to bend it.

#7 2 years ago

Thanks HowardR and paulace I discovered something:

I've made two videos that maybe you could have a quick look at. It the first one I step the unit manually with the machine on and the lanes alternate correctly. You can also see the switch is working correctly.

The second is during gameplay. The lane lights do not alternate and the switch does not seem to work correctly.

Is there anything you can see from that, I mean why wouldn't the switch be working when the game moves it?

#8 2 years ago

Yeah, that does look like the rotating arm is jumping more than one space at a time. The solenoid pulls the plate toward the coil and releases it - both actions are sudden and violent, which is different from how you're doing it with your finger - I can see you gently moving the plate up and down. A more accurate simulation would be to quickly "flick" the plate down toward the coil and let your finger slide off the edge so it snaps back up without being touched. The rotating arm (spindle) actually moves forward during the release of the armature plate once the coil has lost power, so I wondered if that return spring is too strong and is possibly throwing the spindle two or three spots instead of just one. There's also the possibility that the armature plate is moving too far downward toward the coil (small red arrow), so that the nylon ratchet tooth is moving under more than one gear on the spindle (red circle), so when it pushes the spindle around, it's moving a couple spaces instead of just one. If that were the case, though, I might expect it to happen occasionally even when you activate it gently with your finger.

You could make sure the armature plate is straight and that all the parts are seated correctly so that the geometry of the parts is correct.

The picture on this link has some good instructions on how those relays should be set to work correctly: http://www.pbresource.com/relay/gtb-asadj.jpg

And HowardR is right - "forming" just means bending.
FS relay diagram (resized).JPGFS relay diagram (resized).JPG

#9 2 years ago

HowardR paulace FIXED!

The little red arrow you put on that diagram was exactly the problem paulace

Like you said the armature plate was moving too far downward toward the coil. I pulled it part and checked the amarture plate and it was straight then discovered that bracket that holds the coil, one side of it was very slightly bent, basically making the coil a little too far away from the amarture plate causing a longer throw of the armature plate causing it to jump two teeth of the ratchet when the coil activated it.

When I bent it back straight and put it back it it started to work perfectly!

I could not work it out as looking at guides on youtube they always cleaned the relay then kind of just clicked it using their fingers and like mine it seemed to work fine like that but the violence of the coil activating it is much harder and that made it jump.

Thanks to you both again for the help, I'll donate to pinside in your name.

#10 2 years ago

Good news! Glad you got it sorted - play a game for Howard and me.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 3.00
Cabinet - Other
Space Coast Pinball
 
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
UpKick Pinball
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-target-alpha-fs-relay-alternating-lane-lights?hl=wolfweb and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.