Gottlieb System80b Night Moves - No boot/display

Just got this Night Moves, played several games with no issues, but was dirty. Cleaned and waxed it, waiting for GI bulbs.

Turned it on to let someone hear the music, and now it doesn't seem to boot. Multiple inserts are lit on power up, then go out, nothing on the score display. (see youtube link) All fuses are good. 5v is good, LED indicators on CPU and driver board, solid red on the sound board LED. Won't start a game, etc. No acid damage, and NVRAM installed. Re-seated connectors (which all look good), same situation. (Haven't done the ground mods yet.)

Any ideas what to test next? swampshroom Isochronic_Frost

IMG_2983 (resized).jpg

#2 2 years ago

JWH

Shogun00

Pinside member

6y 60,550 946 60

Is there a slam tilt switch in the machine?

#3 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Erratic_Boot_Issues_with_Later_80B_Games_.28Hot_Shots.2C_Bad_Girls.2C_and_Big_House.29

Quoted from Shogun00:
Is there a slam tilt switch in the machine?

There are a couple I believe. Wouldn't the display show slam tilt if that was closed?

#4 2 years ago

JWH

Shogun00

Pinside member

6y 60,550 946 60

OP
Quoted from mack505:
There are a couple I believe. Wouldn't the display show slam tilt if that was closed?

Not on the System 80b games.

Another possibility from Pinwiki. I'm not sure if your machine has one, but it's worth looking into.

#5 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

Quoted from Shogun00:
Not on the System 80b games.
Another possibility from Pinwiki. I'm not sure if your machine has one, but it's worth looking into.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Erratic_Boot_Issues_with_Later_80B_Games_.28Hot_Shots.2C_Bad_Girls.2C_and_Big_House.29

Thanks for your reply. The slam switch on the door is open, as is the one on the bottom of the playfield. This is a cocktail so it doesn’t have a fluorescent bulb with starter as that link mentions.

#6 2 years ago

LXL

Isochronic_Frost

Sounds like the machine is locked up.
I’d try unplugging the tiny reset board next to the MPU to see if that may be the issue, sometimes it is.

Especially with the NVRAM, these Gottlieb’s can get locked up with garbage in the RAM.
Also did you make sure to test the fuses with a meter? It’s happened to me more than once that The fuses look good visual but test bad

Video is unavailable to me

#7 2 years ago

JWH

Shogun00

Pinside member

6y 60,550 946 60

OP
Quoted from mack505:
This is a cocktail so it doesn’t have a fluorescent bulb with starter as that link mentions.

The fuse could still be there even though it's not in use. I would check the fuse strip at the transformer and make sure that 110 volt isn't installed.

#8 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:
Sounds like the machine is locked up.
I’d try unplugging the tiny reset board next to the MPU to see if that may be the issue, sometimes it is.
Especially with the NVRAM, these Gottlieb’s can get locked up with garbage in the RAM.
Also did you make sure to test the fuses with a meter? It’s happened to me more than once that The fuses look good visual but test bad
Video is unavailable to me

Fixed permissions on video. I checked fuses with meter, out of circuit, all test fine.

#9 2 years ago

LXL

Isochronic_Frost

OP
Quoted from mack505:
Just got this Night Moves, played several games with no issues, but was dirty. Cleaned and waxed it, waiting for GI bulbs.
Turned it on to let someone hear the music, and now it doesn't seem to boot. Multiple inserts are lit on power up, then go out, nothing on the score display. (see youtube link) All fuses are good. 5v is good, LED indicators on CPU and driver board, solid red on the sound board LED. Won't start a game, etc. No acid damage, and NVRAM installed. Re-seated connectors (which all look good), same situation. (Haven't done the ground mods yet.)
Any ideas what to test next? swampshroom Isochronic_Frost

[quoted image]

Is the MPU light blinking or solid? The Soundboard should blink. Let me go check mine now

#10 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:
Is the MPU light blinking or solid? The Soundboard should blink. Let me go check mine now

The sound board LED is solid. leds we’re added to the cpu and driver boards just to indicate 5v presence, and they’re lit.

#11 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

Isochronic_Frost interesting, toddtuckey took that whole board next to the MPU out it looks like? at 3:34 in

#12 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from mack505:
Isochronic_Frost interesting, toddtuckey took that whole board next to the MPU out it looks like? at 3:34 in

Maybe that's an aftermarket Swemmer board?

#13 2 years ago

LXL

Isochronic_Frost

OP
Quoted from mack505:
Isochronic_Frost interesting, toddtuckey took that whole board next to the MPU out it looks like? at 3:34 in

Yes, I’d leave it in, put a sticky note on it marking it as “not used” it’s only useful for location play. It is a tiny watchdog board that will force reset the game if it detects that it’s locked up. They are sensitive and after 30 years they have gone bad and trigger random resets and other bizarre issues. Maybe one day someone will buy it and put it in a museum 50 years from now, you never know.

For your use, it is best unplugged, unless you plan to leave the game on all day unattended. I’ve left mine on for 5-6 hours while I’m playing in the gameroom without issue. You just want to sometimes check to make sure the game didn’t lock up for whatever reason. It happened a lot on location, home use it’s unlikely so the small watchdog reset board is not needed.

Disconnecting it will help eliminate one more possible problem area. Make sure the game is off. Just unplug it and put some electrical tape over the plug.

#14 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:
Yes, I’d leave it in, put a sticky note on it marking it as “not used” it’s only useful for location play. It is a tiny watchdog board that will force reset the game if it detects that it’s locked up. They are sensitive and after 30 years they have gone bad and trigger random resets and other bizarre issues. Maybe one day someone will buy it and put it in a museum 50 years from now, you never know.
For your use, it is best unplugged, unless you plan to leave the game on all day unattended. I’ve left mine on for 5-6 hours while I’m playing in the gameroom without issue. You just want to sometimes check to make sure the game didn’t lock up for whatever reason. It happened a lot on location, home use it’s unlikely so the small watchdog reset board is not needed.
Disconnecting it will help eliminate one more possible problem area. Make sure the game is off. Just unplug it and put some electrical tape over the plug.

Good to know, still not booting, so I suppose that board isn't the issue.

#15 2 years ago

LXL

Isochronic_Frost

OP
Quoted from mack505:
There are a couple I believe. Wouldn't the display show slam tilt if that was closed?

Just checked, Night Moves will tell you if the slam is closed

image.jpg

OP
Quoted from mack505:
Just got this Night Moves, played several games with no issues, but was dirty. Cleaned and waxed it, waiting for GI bulbs.
Turned it on to let someone hear the music, and now it doesn't seem to boot. Multiple inserts are lit on power up, then go out, nothing on the score display. (see youtube link) All fuses are good. 5v is good, LED indicators on CPU and driver board, solid red on the sound board LED. Won't start a game, etc. No acid damage, and NVRAM installed. Re-seated connectors (which all look good), same situation. (Haven't done the ground mods yet.)
Any ideas what to test next? swampshroom Isochronic_Frost
[quoted image]

In your video it sounds like both relays are clicking on and off when you start the game. If that’s the case it would seem the MPU is booting. Maybe the ROMs got scrambled?

#16 2 years ago

MAP

mack505

Pinside member

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:
Just checked, Night Moves will tell you if the slam is closed
[quoted image]

In your video it sounds like both relays are clicking on and off when you start the game. If that’s the case it would seem the MPU is booting. Maybe the ROMs got scrambled?

I pulled the mpu roms, read them and did a diff with the images from ipdb, and they're the same. :/

#17 2 years ago

LXL

Isochronic_Frost