(Topic ID: 304445)

Gottlieb System 80b - boot issues

By mad_carl

13 days ago


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#1 13 days ago

So I picked up a working #HollywoodHeat last week, albeit it needs some love.

Saw it working before I took it home. Got it set up in the house. Everything worked aside from a blown fuse for the drop targets. And I did notice a flicker on the displays (the unused segments looked like they were dimly lit)

The next day I turn it on, walk away to do something at the computer for 5mins and notice some inserts are locked on. I shut it off. Turn it back on and nothing.

Now I get garbage on the display. A few feature lamps on the playfield doing an attract show but can’t coin up or start a game.
Typically when I first turn it on I get a couple of insert lights circling the playfield, back ic and gi comes on. The soundboard led somethings flashes other times not. If I turn it off and then back on I get the same but with a beep from the speakers.

Ground mods were done at the transformer. The mpu has the added wires on the interconnect and has a Piggy Deux board with the harness to the reset board.

The resetboard is flakey, when touched, it started a reset loop so it is now unplugged.

Reflowed the male pins on the psu and cleaned the pot. Made sure it was pushing 5v to the mpu which it is as measured at the connector as well as the 100uf 10v cap.
Also cleaned up the edge connectors on the mpu with a pink eraser.

The mpu still has the battery attached which I was going to replace with a coin cell or nvram when I make a parts order.

Tried the usually reseat the connectors, remove fluorescent tube starter tested for continuity for the grounds between boards and transformer but I get no change.

I picked up some terminal connectors and wire this morning to do the ground mods to the boards but I have a feeling I won’t see much change.

Sorry about the wall of text but this is my first Sys80b and I’m at a loss of what to try next. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

#2 13 days ago

Do those board ground mods. Sounds like you did your due diligence!

What's the exact voltage at the npu cap? SoundS like a connection issue honestly. Unplug the sound card, driver board & see if the npu and display boot

#3 13 days ago

Does it boot at all? Can you get into the memory test? These sound like rom issues to me.

Does it boot with the piggy board? I doubt it will run correctly with the piggy detached. If touching the piggy created the avalanche, fix the piggy.

#4 13 days ago
Quoted from Friengineer:

Do those board ground mods. Sounds like you did your due diligence!
What's the exact voltage at the npu cap? SoundS like a connection issue honestly. Unplug the sound card, driver board & see if the npu and display boot

Haha man, I'm trying!

The voltage at the cap is 5.02 DC.
No change when sound card and driver board are unplugged.

Quoted from donjagra:

Does it boot at all? Can you get into the memory test? These sound like rom issues to me.
Does it boot with the piggy board? I doubt it will run correctly with the piggy detached. If touching the piggy created the avalanche, fix the piggy.

I can't really tell what it's doing. But I would say no, it's not booting.

Without the Pinitech Piggy Deux board/prom, all the controlled lamps and flashers lock on.

Also, it wasn't the piggy that caused the resets the night before, it was touching the Reset card. I have reflowed the male headers on it because they were rocking, but with it plugged into the Piggy board it resets constantly, and I do get the "broken glass" sound on repeat.

I am also leaning toward a rom issue at this point.

Also, I checked continuity on each board to the ground strap in the backbox, and it all checks out. I've heard mixed reviews on the board ground mods on if they were necessary or not so I am on the fence.

One thing I did notice while checking voltages is that the 5vdc reading starts dropping on some of the ICs on th top half of the board ~3.50-4.57 vdc at the last pin.

I might try to get some new roms burned, but it would probably be quicker for me to get a rom burner from amazon

#5 13 days ago

Can you bump the voltage up a bit so you have 5.5vdc at the caps? My monte Carlo doesn't boot well unless I'm reading 5.25 or so VDC.

It could be bad roms as well.

Quoted from donjagra:

Does it boot with the piggy board

You don't need the reset board attached. Once the piggy deux is installed and the rom install on top of it, you don't need to remove the piggy deux ever. It should be a main staple because it bypasses the fucking socket from hell.

#6 13 days ago

Also when you say piggy deux you mean this one from pinitech right?

https://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_piggydeux.php

#7 13 days ago
Quoted from Friengineer:

Can you bump the voltage up a bit so you have 5.5vdc at the caps? My monte Carlo doesn't boot well unless I'm reading 5.25 or so VDC.
It could be bad roms as well.

I thought about it, but I didn’t want to go crazy with it and do any more damage.

Quoted from Friengineer:

Also when you say piggy deux you mean this one from pinitech right?
https://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_piggydeux.php

Yes that’s the one. I emailed them for some documentation because I had never seen one until I picked up the game.

Not sure what else to look for. I mean it would be nice if it were just a set of roms that it needed but I feel like it’s more than that.

Like I mentioned in my original post, the displays were “flickering” or half lit when the segments weren’t being used. I assume there was an underlying issue I would have to figure out sooner or later, maybe a bad ground or a voltage was off. It sure if that’s connected or even a failing rom would cause that. Like I said this is my first Gottlieb so I don’t know all the quirks yet.

#8 13 days ago

Could be flaky connections. Its hard to remote diagnose system 80 games thats also why its sometimes hard to find help online. There are no shortcuts with system 80 you just have to go through all the steps until its working.
Could be a bad RIOT chip on the MPU. I have had a couple just simply die like that when the game was sitting idle in attract. Not super common, I think 3 times that I can remember but it does happen. Sometimes blank screen at power up sometimes boots to solid garbage but those were known solid working games.

#9 12 days ago

Yeah every thread I’ve read seems to just end with no resolution. Everyone must get fed up and just send their boards to Chris haha

#10 12 days ago

What about the battery? Looks like I have an original battery pack on there. I had planned on addressing that when I made a parts order.

Would a dead or bad battery effect it booting/functioning? Would it boot without a battery? I know other systems will work without, just wondering if this is a Gottlieb quirk....but at this point in my adventure I wouldn't be surprised by anything

Edit: battery removed. no change

#11 12 days ago
Quoted from mad_carl:

Saw it working before I took it home.

Quoted from mad_carl:

Without the Pinitech Piggy Deux board/prom, all the controlled lamps and flashers lock on.

Quoted from mad_carl:

I am also leaning toward a rom issue at this point.

The likelihood of the rom going bad from the drive from one location to another is very low.

Without the piggy deux board plugged in, it's just not going to boot the game since that's where the gamerom is.

Getting a test rom for system 80 would be helpful and troubleshooting on the bench with a power supply instead of in the game where other factors might mask what's going on. Even without a test rom, testing on the bench with a logic probe/scope is helpful. You're going from the assumption that it was working when you picked it up, something has changed.

Inspect the board closely for any possible battery damage, too. Think about what go disconnected (if anything) for the ride.... did you take any of the connectors off/take the head off? (I forget if that's a fold-down head on that game). Some games just don't like to be moved, connectors are the top choice for issues there. While a connector doesn't just one second to the next go from good to bad, there could be bad spots on the connector or the edge finger and moving the game just causes it to stop making contact.

#12 12 days ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/swemmer-gottlieb-system-80b-mpu

You could buy this and new roms and see if that changes anything. I would buy your old mpu from you. I have the test rom and rig.

Any chance you could post some photos of the display and error garbage? It could be helpful for future tech.

Also can you post photos of your mpu? Front and back.

Check list: ground mods, install piggyback deux, remove backbox light, proper power at PS, proper power at mpu, rebuild interconnect, new roms, check for mpu defects near riot chips, check/clean connectors.

#13 12 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

The likelihood of the rom going bad from the drive from one location to another is very low.

Oh no - I didn't suspect the rom going bad from the drive. I did manage to have it set up and had been playing for a day or so. Not really suspecting the issues being from travel.

Quoted from slochar:

Without the piggy deux board plugged in, it's just not going to boot the game since that's where the gamerom is.

I assumed. Just trying anything to see what results I'd get, as there is nothing really telling me what the issue is.

Quoted from slochar:

.
Getting a test rom for system 80 would be helpful and troubleshooting on the bench with a power supply instead of in the game where other factors might mask what's going on. Even without a test rom, testing on the bench with a logic probe/scope is helpful. You're going from the assumption that it was working when you picked it up, something has changed.

I actually do have a probe, although I'm not overly confident in using.

Quoted from slochar:

Inspect the board closely for any possible battery damage, too. Think about what go disconnected (if anything) for the ride.... did you take any of the connectors off/take the head off? (I forget if that's a fold-down head on that game). Some games just don't like to be moved, connectors are the top choice for issues there. While a connector doesn't just one second to the next go from good to bad, there could be bad spots on the connector or the edge finger and moving the game just causes it to stop making contact.

Board is pretty clean, no battery damage. I actually removed the battery pack altogether today to see if I'd get anything different. Same symptoms.

Like I said, it fired up fine after the ride. Noticed the drop targets weren't working when I went to check it out. I replaced the playfield fuse and got them going again. That being said, one of the "sync" solenoids was burnt up which I assume was the cause.

Connectors were all reseated when it arrived and was working. My buddy and I played for an hour or two after checking everything out. The next day I came home from work, turned it on and sat down at the computer to start a parts list. 5-10mins later I went over to the game and noticed some inserts were locked on.

#14 12 days ago
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#15 6 days ago

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