(Topic ID: 85230)

Gottlieb System 80A Questions.


By Arcade

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by pdman
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

Just acquired a Gottlieb System 80A Touchdown game.
I (we) are just getting started with it. So far I have replaced all the capacitors on the boards.
I have also replaced the three bridge rectifiers in the bottom of the game and re-pinned the main board connector.
So far when we turn it on we get all the GI lights working and two displays have a 5 on them, the small display in the center and the player 1 display.
All fuses checked and replaced. Have not messed with any ground cables yet.

But my biggest question is what I should put in the bottom of the game capacitor wise. Someone has twisted together two caps, each with a value of 35V and 3300 MFD.
I did order a kit which came with the following two screw top capacitors. One is a tall 30V 12000MFD and the second is a shorter 50V 4800MFD.
Is one of these supposed to go here??? (See Photo below).
I am working on getting a manual but do not have one yet.
Also any tips on getting this thing further along are appreciated.

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#2 6 years ago

Here is another photo that better shows where this monster is located.

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#3 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

So far I have replaced all the capacitors on the boards.

Why?

Quoted from Arcade:

I have also replaced the three bridge rectifiers in the bottom of the game and re-pinned the main board connector.

Again why?

Quoted from Arcade:

All fuses checked and replaced. Have not messed with any ground cables yet.

Why NOT! biggest problem with Gottlieb.

Quoted from Arcade:

I did order a kit which came with the following two screw top capacitors. One is a tall 30V 12000MFD and the second is a shorter 50V 4800MFD.

30V cap is likely for the 12V bridge which is double the parallel 6600uF cap in the machine now. bigger cap is ok to a point.
and the 50V cap for the 38V bridge but you need to check with schematics/manual.

I would really stop replacing parts and start reading Pinwiki for all good things Gottlieb.

First thing you need is all power supply voltages to be good, with no other boards attached.

#4 6 years ago

I'll second all that CNKay advises. All good info. Head on over to Pinwiki for the proper troubleshooting steps.

No harm replacing caps, just not necessary.

Grounds are system 80's biggest issue. Do all the ground mods Pinwiki points out and you'll be paving the way for a bulletproof, reliable game

Check out Pinball Ninja's site for system 80 repairs. You'll learn a lot that will compliment your new Pinwiki info.

Good luck,

Brian

#5 6 years ago

I read all of Pinwiki before I ever got started, I seem to remember them saying to replace the old caps.
Two caps had leaked and I saw no reason to leave them in. The others were replaced because they were over 30 years old and I already had the board out.
Seemed like a no brainer, maybe I was wrong.
One of the three bridge rectifiers was cracked, so once again I was already in there, why not replace the other two?
We will get to work on the grounding soon and I just got a manual paid for this morning.
Thanks for the responses, if I am doing something wrong, I want to know, and I'm sure I will need more help later on down the line.

#6 6 years ago

Now that all sound OK. I did not mean to sound rude. I guess it may have been how you worded.

Yeah grounds and power supply would be your first step.

If you don't get attract mode and displays/hgtd your main cpu is not booting. So from the description above sound bad.

Which caps on what board??

Yeah like i said above the 50V cap will likely be wired across the HV bridge as a smoothing cap to get flatter DC.

#7 6 years ago

I did not take it as rude. I was just answering the questions as they were asked.
I am not at home to look, but there was one on the sound board and one on the main power board. Also the Zener diode above it on the main board was toast, so I replaced it as well. I will let you know specifically which ones when I get back home.
I am really just wondering the most what to replace that twisted mess of capacitors in the bottom of the cabinet with. Hopefully the manual will tell me exactly what should be there.
I am not sure where the HV bridge is located.

#8 6 years ago

Look at the schematics for the three bridges. The paralleled cap you have now is very close to what schematics call for lot of guys put a bigger one in. The kit lower voltage larger value will go there. The 50V cap will likely be for 38V bridge. and one bridge may have no smoothing cap for lamp voltage 6.3V.

Oh it sounds like you already had PS apart. Not sure with sys80A but if R10 is 30ohm that is to be changed to 680ohm to stop that zener from getting so toasty. If it is the part I am thinking of. Once again read as do PS stuff on pin wiki as separating heat sink from PS board is a pain.

#9 6 years ago

Just got home. The cap on the power board was C2 and the diode directly above it which was CR7.
The CR7 was toasted. I did not replace R10 with a higher ohm and you are correct, pulling the board off the heat sink was not much fun.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like my tall cap I got in my kit, the 30VDC 12000MFS is what I need to put in place of the hacked version I have currently.
I guess my machine does not use the other 50 volt cap, but I will check the schematics when I get them.

I would tell you which cap on the sound board was blow, but they are not labeled. I will post a photo if I can and circle the parts effected.

#10 6 years ago

I circled the two areas in red that were damaged.

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#11 6 years ago

High voltage transistor (Q1 next to C2) needs a heat sink added back on.

Replace CR7 and R10 as pair, go to higher resistance as mentioned.

Sound board - circled cap is C9. Listed as 47uF, 25V. May need to go considerably higher in voltage rating to get something close to the correct lead spacing.

#12 6 years ago

oops i guess you don't need that. half of the bridge was replaced on the PS and the data sentry (box of death) is still on the MPU.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/ Here is Ed site in case you don't know it you should.

I just bought a memory cap from Ed worked great. One of the more affordable options to never need batteries.
Ed, nobody seems to ever mention the initial loading when installing those. The 5V rails on my driver board were like 4.65-4.70V even MPU not much better 4.8V. Had to adjust up for a little while then dial it back once the cap had a descent charge i am guessing.

And Ed does have the all the correct parts to repair the PS. Even has a better (his own designed) one. BUT out of stock. Oh dang.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

High voltage transistor (Q1 next to C2) needs a heat sink added back on.

I have already replaced that heat sink. The photo was taken as the game was given to me.
I did talk about replacing the heat sink, but that was in another thread for the Gottlieb system 80/system1 club.
Good catch though.

I do plan on replacing the battery at some point as well. So far no signs of any leakage.
Tomorrow I will do the grounding mod on the power board, cpu board and driver boards.
Luckily I have the good kind of attachments in the lower cabinet that do not require having to do the ground mods down there.

#14 6 years ago

Just finished the ground mods on the power board and the CPU board.
I have not done the driver board yet because none of the Ninja photos or videos have a close enough shot of just where he is putting that wire.
Any way I tested the J2 plug on the Power board and have 5.00 volts coming off of it.
Then I tested the J3 plug and have 63.9 volts and 46.3 volts on pins 1 and 3.

Kind of at a loss as to what to try next. On power up I still just get all the GI lights in the backbox and the playfield lit up.
Also I have two insert lights stuck on and a 5 on player 1 display and a 5 on the small display in the center.
No coin up or game start yet.

#15 6 years ago

On the inner connect cable i believe it is the pin directly opposite of the ground so to pinch the boards with two connectors. same for the 5V if you just add two wies and stick them in the same two openings you can not go wrong.

On pwr supply right above R10 there is 8.2V check that.

Then with only plug in from power supply to mpu and see what you get. ON mpu leave all connectors unplugged but the display connectors far right "plug those in" and those two you (never pull off or on) with power on.

Oh did you run a line from pwr supply to the ground strip down by the xformer.

yeah your mpu is toast. Not booting.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Any way I tested the J2 plug on the Power board and have 5.00 volts coming off of it.
Then I tested the J3 plug and have 63.9 volts and 46.3 volts on pins 1 and 3

Those are correct your pwr supply is fine . The 8.2 is offset for the displays likely fine I just wanted you to be aware of.

Well take maybe one or two pictures of CPU.

#17 6 years ago

Thanks. I'll do that shortly.

Ok. Got 8.47 volts on the 8volt test point.

#18 6 years ago

With the plugs unplugged except the display plugs I get the same problems. Here are some photos of my CPU. One overall photo and two close ups of the top half and the bottom half.

image-212.jpg image.jpg image-270.jpg
#19 6 years ago

try to fire up with reset board disconnected. tc1 middle right side of mpu picture.

the three large chips U2, U3 and game rom 688 carefully pry up one at a time, lightly burnish legs with fine sandpaper or pencil eraser and re seat.

report back i am here.

#21 6 years ago

yeah the board looks descent and looks like Q4 is white pretty freakin cool! but i looked at the 5101 funny and if it wasn't bad it is now. those go bad if you look at em wrong. super static sensitive. should be fine mounted in board but man that chip sucks.

#22 6 years ago

I think that may be a flash reflection from the camera off the top of the transistor Chris.

Steve

Quoted from CNKay:

looks like Q4 is white pretty freakin cool!.

#23 6 years ago

All removable IC's removed and sanded.
Unfortunately, no difference.

I already have the reset board unplugged as the Ninja suggested

#24 6 years ago

Yes q4 is fine. Just the flash

Also forgot to mention I had already added the two extra wires to the interconnect.

#25 6 years ago

Ok now you are going to have to get out the scope and or logic probe and start seeing if your 6502 getting correct clock. Checking address and data lines etc..

Oh, at this point you really don't need that battery on board at all, may want to remove. I don't think there are traces under but get it out the sooner the better.

#26 6 years ago

I can get the battery off no problem.
The problem would be that I only have a multimeter, no scope.

#27 6 years ago

yeah do that, the head back over to pinwiki and start reading no boot section. You will likely need logic probe at the very least. They are only 15-20.

1 week later
#28 6 years ago

Ordered a logic probe and they sent me a logic pulser. arrrrgh.

#29 6 years ago

Got the two IC chips on order Chris.
They should be in next week.
Thanks for helping out like you did.

2 weeks later
#30 6 years ago

Got my two IC chips installed today.
Bingo!!!!
The game plays for the first time.
All displays came to life, credits worked, game started, sound works as does all scoring.
Only three problems to fix.
Top left pop bumper does not work. Fuse is good and coil tests ok. Maybe the little board?
Also the game has two kickout holes next to the flippers and neither one works.
And the last biggest problem is that the controlled playfield lights do not work.
I have two standup target lights that cycle back and forth and sometimes between balls the playfield lights will flash for a brief second and then go back out.

Thanks to CNKay for the phone call to diagnose which chips needed replacing.

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Got my two IC chips installed today.
Bingo!!!!
The game plays for the first time.
Thanks to CNKay for the phone call to diagnose which chips needed replacing.

Arcade

could you let us know what chips were ordered and replaced?
Thanks

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from pdman:

Arcade
could you let us know what chips were ordered and replaced?
Thanks

Sure.
They were Z5 static ram chip S5101-L
and Z10 open collector inverter SN74LS05N

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Sure.
They were Z5 static ram chip S5101-L
and Z10 open collector inverter SN74LS05N

According to CNKay the Z5 chip is often blown and is very susceptible to static electricity.

#34 6 years ago

Thanks

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