(Topic ID: 182151)

Gottlieb System 80 - No displays, low 60V and 42V

By solarvalue

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

CR5 (resized).jpg
20170318_161123 (resized).jpg
#1 7 years ago

Hi all,

Lost the displays on Black Hole. Actually they are there but very, very faint. TP1 (60V) only has 12V, TP2 (42V) is at about 0.3V. F3 is good. Any ideas what has happened?

Thanks, SV.

#2 7 years ago

Yes your power supply took a dump.

Needs HV section repaired. If you need it repaired I can help. But with shipping both ways and such most folks just buy a replacement for the 80-100$

Ed may have them or at least repair kits as well.

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Needs HV section repaired. If you need it repaired I can help.

Thanks for the offer but you are too far away from me (wrong hemisphere).

So, I believe the HV involves the following components:
Q1, Q2, CR5, R1-5
Any others?

Do you think it is anything in particular given the 60V has dropped to 12V and not dropped out completely?

#4 7 years ago

Bump.

#5 7 years ago

Could be any of several issues... all centered around Q1.

First step - check HV coming into the board.
With connector pulled from J3 -- what do you measure between E1 and ground? And what do you measure between E2 and ground?

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

With connector pulled from J3 -- what do you measure between E1 and ground? And what do you measure between E2 and ground?

Thanks for the reply.

E1 is fluctuating between 98V - 102V
E2 is around 13V

#7 7 years ago

OK -- power in ok although a bit high.
Low E2. Can be bad CR5 or Q2 circuit or shorted output.
Next, to check for shorted output -- black meter lead to TP3, what is voltage on both sides of R4 (33 ohm resistor).

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

what is voltage on both sides of R4

I've got around 13V on both sides, so same as at TP1.

#9 7 years ago

OK -- not shorted output.

Low voltage on E2 during normal operation means the output is shorted and the regulator has gone into current limiting mode. But that's not your problem.

In your case:
Bad Q1, Bad CR5 or Bad Q2. If you have a meter with diode test - start checking those three.
All three of these are fairly cheap. Q1 = TIP31C, Q2 = 2N5550 or 2N5551, CR5 = 1N4759A. The bad thing about fixing this power supply board is removing that stupid hotplate heat sink... which can bugger up your +5V supply.

Also take a quick look at resistors R1, R2 and R3. R1 cracked?
Based on the 13V output - if R2 and R3 are ok then you should be seeing about 1 volt across resistor R2 and 12 volts across resistor R3.

Ed

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

OK -- power in ok although a bit high.

he hasnt told you hes got the ( mismatched size) 110v transfomers in series on a 240v circuit.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Bad Q1, Bad CR5 or Bad Q2. If you have a meter with diode test - start checking those three.

I need to disconnect the board to test these, right?

Nope, looks fine.

Quoted from G-P-E:

if R2 and R3 are ok then you should be seeing about 1 volt across resistor R2 and 12 volts across resistor R3.

So you mean testing with the game powered on and the red and black leads on each side of the resistor?

#12 7 years ago

Pretty much ... yep.

OK...

and Yep.

But - if you are disconnecting things, may as well just replace the set of three (zener diode and two transistors). They're dirt cheap - your time required for testing these three parts is worth more than the value of the parts. The only bad thing about replacing these three is pulling the 5V regulator transistor off and re-attaching when done.

2 weeks later
#13 7 years ago

OK, I got busy with some other stuff but am back on this now.

G-P-E , I checked out the 2 resistors:
R2 only has around 0.34V
R3 is a little over 12V

Does this mean R2 is bad?

#14 7 years ago

Not necessarily a bad R2. "About 13V" at left of R4 plus resistor tolerances - they appear to be fine. So this does show the voltage divider (R2 and R3) is pretty close so that ain't the problem.

CR5 voltage should be 62 but you mentioned 13V above. And your output voltage is hovering 13V so is following the CR5 input voltage (CR5 tells transistor what voltage he should be outputting). First thing I'd change out is CR5. CR5 is mounted to standoffs - a definite plus because you can replace him without dismantling the board from heatsink.

Original CR5 was rated at 62V with max power dissipation of 1 Watt. With R1 = 1.3K and your input to R1 (measured at E1) at a high 98-100V --> current through R1 = about 29mA (plus a hair for Q1). This means CR5 is also conducting at nearly 29mA. CR5 power = 62V x 0.029A = 1.8 Watts. Yup, that's about 2x maximum of what he should be doing. This is partially a result to running your input voltage so high. And partially a result to Gottlieb using an undersized part. Replace him with a 5 watt part: 1N5372B.

#15 7 years ago

Thank for the advice Ed, that sounds great.

I've ordered some 1N5372B.

Here's a pic of my CR5, so you mean I should cut him off from the top and solder the new one to the leads?

20170318_161123 (resized).jpg20170318_161123 (resized).jpg

#16 7 years ago

Oh - that's unfortunate. They didn't use standoffs for your CR5. You could do as you say cut him off and solder to leads on top of board. This would save yourself some work and headache regarding not pulling the TO-3 big transistor off the board.
Normally I would consider that a kluge but this board is so stinking tough to work with - I would go that route and maintain your +5V regulator circuit's integrity. Here is what my CR5 looks like...

CR5 (resized).jpgCR5 (resized).jpg

#17 7 years ago

OK, I'll do that for now. I've ordered several of the diodes, so if I have to pull the board apart later on I can fix it properly.

#18 7 years ago

Hi Ed,

The diodes arrived and I replaced CR5 today. I cut the leads and soldered to them as we discussed and it was pretty easy, I didn't even need to remove the board from the head.

I now have 68V at TP1 and 50V at TP2. Do you think that's too high? I believe that is unloaded as I still have the connector at J3 disconnected.

#19 7 years ago

Nah, you're at the upper edge of the 10% tolerance but you're fine.

#20 7 years ago

Thanks, I just fired it back up and everything looks good. That was great diagnosis, I wish I had those skills. I really appreciate the help.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 2.99
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
 
$ 83.00
Electronics
PinballReplacementParts
 
From: $ 3.00
Cabinet - Other
Space Coast Pinball
 
$ 1,159.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-system-80-no-displays-low-60v-and-42v and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.