(Topic ID: 153129)

Gottlieb System 80 / Caveman issues


By amxfc3s

4 years ago



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  • 11 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by CUJO
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#1 4 years ago

I just bought a Caveman and it isn't quite working yet. So far I have replaced all of the connectors in the back box, rebuilt the power supply, added the ground wires in the MPU<>driver connection, replaced the four bridges, fuse holders, and two large caps in the cabinet, and installed a Rottendog MPU.

When I have the connection between the driver board and MPU plugged in, the video section will freeze a couple seconds after booting. It will still play attract sounds. The game will not coin up or enter the test menu.

Without the connection between the driver board and MPU plugged in, the video section works great. It still will not coin up or start a game (should it?). I have a solid 5.05v going into the MPU, am not sure what else to check. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edit: The slam switch is closed, the ball roll and pendulum tilt switches are both open. The fuses test good.

#2 4 years ago

On the driver board, disconnect all the connectors except for J1 (this supplies power to the board). Connected the MPU with the driver board. Then power on.

Do you see the same symptoms?

If not, try adding connectors one by one (lamps, switch inputs, sound, solenoids) to see if you can find the one that causes the game to malfunction.

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

On the driver board, disconnect all the connectors except for J1 (this supplies power to the board). Connected the MPU with the driver board. Then power on.
Do you see the same symptoms?
If not, try adding connectors one by one (lamps, switch inputs, sound, solenoids) to see if you can find the one that causes the game to malfunction.

I can plug everything in except A3-J3 on the driver board and it doesn't freeze. I plugged in A3J3, and disconnected A15-P1 and A12-P7 by the coin door (to see if something on those connectors was the issue), and it freezes.

#4 4 years ago

I'm looking at the manual (page 38), looks like the A3-J3 connector goes to a bunch of relays...game over, tilt, left vari-target, right veri-target, and the a-relay. I am not sure how I would troubleshoot those. It also goes to the video board stack A23-J2 connector. I am still looking for what else it goes to.

Not sure if it's worth mentioning but I don't have the reset board connected.

#5 4 years ago

1456365696611-393111002_(resized).jpg

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from amxfc3s:

I'm looking at the manual (page 38), looks like the A3-J3 connector goes to a bunch of relays...game over, tilt, left vari-target, right veri-target, and the a-relay. I am not sure how I would troubleshoot those. It also goes to the video board stack A23-J2 connector. I am still looking for what else it goes to.
Not sure if it's worth mentioning but I don't have the reset board connected.

Make sure the leafs of the relays make contact whey they are supposed to, and don't make contact when they are supposed to be separated. Each relay has to states--inactive and energized. The lever on the relay then moves between two positions depending on when it's active or energized, and certain leafs make contact in each state.

Try disconnecting the A23-J2 connector. That might help narrow down the problem on the A3-J3 connector. But, I'm not sure if the video portion of the game will refuse to boot correctly if that connector has been unplugged--you may have to study the manual further. Also, be sure to read through any "theory of operations" guides. That will usually tell you step by step what is supposed to happen in the game, and what things to test for if things don't work somewhere along the line.

If all else fails, try contacting PBResource. They might be able to help. I'm not sure there are too many people who actually know how Caveman games work. Whenever they fail, they are usually parted out since there isn't very much repair info about them, unfortunately.

[edit]: One other thought--compare all the wire colors and do continuity tests on the A3-J3 and A23-J2 connector to make sure that all the wires are making contact and are in the correct places. If a wire happened to come loose, someone may have just jammed it back into a random spot.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Make sure the leafs of the relays make contact whey they are supposed to, and don't make contact when they are supposed to be separated. Each relay has to states--inactive and energized. The lever on the relay then moves between two positions depending on when it's active or energized, and certain leafs make contact in each state.
Try disconnecting the A23-J2 connector. That might help narrow down the problem on the A3-J3 connector. But, I'm not sure if the video portion of the game will refuse to boot correctly if that connector has been unplugged--you may have to study the manual further. Also, be sure to read through any "theory of operations" guides. That will usually tell you step by step what is supposed to happen in the game, and what things to test for if things don't work somewhere along the line.
If all else fails, try contacting PBResource. They might be able to help. I'm not sure there are too many people who actually know how Caveman games work. Whenever they fail, they are usually parted out since there isn't very much repair info about them, unfortunately.
[edit]: One other thought--compare all the wire colors and do continuity tests on the A3-J3 and A23-J2 connector to make sure that all the wires are making contact and are in the correct places. If a wire happened to come loose, someone may have just jammed it back into a random spot.

If i remove the A23-J2 connector, the video portion won't work at all. I am also not sure how the leafs of the relays are supposed to be set up. I guess I will start de-pinning the wires of the A3-J3 connector until I can find out what is causing the problem. It still won't help me if there is a board issue though. I figure I should at least be able to get into the test menu?

#8 4 years ago

Well I think I found my problem. At least the reason why the game won't coin up or go into test mode. The manual lists these as 1N270 diodes. Is there something compatible I can pick up at radio shack?

IMG_20160225_193035_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160225_193049_(resized).jpg

#9 4 years ago

Do any diodes actually fail a diode multimeter test?

Either way, you might want to re-solder those wires...they might be shorting against each other with those long tails.

1N270 are germanium diodes. A bit different than traditional silicon diodes.

Taken from the system 1 pinwiki page: http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Switch_Matrix

Unlike most other manufacturers, Gottlieb® isolated each switch with a 1N270 Germanium diode versus a 1N4004 or 1N4148 silicon diode. Since 1N270 diodes are obsolete and availability varies, a more modern CDSH-270 germanium diode can be substituted. The use of a silicon diode will cause the switch matrix to function incorrectly. Furthermore, Gottlieb® attached the diodes to a central location on diode boards for each switch return versus attaching a diode to the switch itself. In some cases, like shown in the image, the diode boards are stacked on top of one another. This can make testing the diodes on the lower diode board somewhat difficult. However, it is not too common for the switch diodes to fail unless physically damaged in some way.

I'm not sure if the same applies to system 80, or if you can substitute standard diodes.

#10 4 years ago

some of them are broken in half...ill replace them and then see what happens

1 year later
#11 2 years ago
Quoted from amxfc3s:

some of them are broken in half...ill replace them and then see what happens

Was just curious if you ever resolved your Caveman issues with replacing the diodes?

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